Reactions worse after removing allergy foods ?

[leighi123]

I just found this section of the forums!

My son Levi (28months) started getting rashes at 15months, when we moved in with my grandma - he was EBF until 12months (and is still nursing), but he ate a lot more solids at the same time he started getting rashy.

He gets red/bumpy/dry eczema sorta stuff on his cheeks, upper arms, and torso.

I know for sure he reacts to strawberrys (major poop issue an hour after having them), and suspected milk issues, b/c I had them as a child. We did a blood test at 25ish months - negative for EVERYTHING


So we did nutrition response testing and found he is allergic to:
dairy
strawberry
citrus including pinapple
multi-vitamins (including natural types)
california baby products (which is a weird one)
oats

He is on 2 homeopathic medications (perscription), one for liver damage which resulted from reacting for so long, and one to help reduce/relive reactions

We have elminated all of those things, and his skin looked better for a few days and then he got a LOT worse. We are keeping a food log and checked/rechecked everything, I've been reading every lable, he eats all organic and mostly fruit and veg (we are also vegetarian).

Is it normal to get worse before it gets better? Or is he allergic to more stuff that hasnt shown up yet? (we found oats +dairy the first visit, the other stuff a week later - we go back every week)

Im not sure what else to do for him or where to go from here.

[kjbrown92]

We have never gotten worse before better, though some people say that happens. It's more likely that you've put something into his diet (either new or more of) when eliminating the other things.

Not sure what "nutrition response testing" is... is it like muscle testing?

To keep your terms clear, if he reacted negative on blood tests (I'm assuming IgE) then he's intolerant to those foods, not allergic. Eczema can be either an IgE allergy or an intolerance.

At 15 months, you said he started getting rashes, when you moved in with your grandmother. Did you start eating different foods then? Or is there some environmental thing that he's reacting to (a pet? soaps? detergents?)

[leighi123]

I believe that nutrition response testing is similar or the same as muscle testing.

We were told that dispite that his blood tests came back negative, that doesnt mean he doesnt have those allergies, I cant remember the full explination, but it was something about a false negative because of the timing of the testing. Im not sure if it was IgE, they just said it was a basic 'allergy screen' blood test. They did not test for strawberrys, citrus, oats or non-food items, so milk was the only one that we know is an issue that didnt show up on bloodwork (so maybe he is intollerant to milk and allergic to the others? or intolerant to everything?)

15months was when he really started eating actual meals. Before that, from 12-15months he was just starting solids, and would only eat small amounts, mostly veggies and starches (bread/crackers/potatoes) At grandma's house he started eating normal meals - vegetarian stuff and a good variety. Same soaps/detergant/different dog but we had 2 in our other house, and we were at grandmas a few times a week with no problems before then.

I did elminate most dairy before nutrition response testing, in the form of cheese/cottage cheese/yogart/icecream, he has never had milk to drink,b/c we did almond milk instead. Now we have also elimnated everything with dairy (things I didnt pay attention before such as some breads that have it for example)

His food now is basically the same as what it was before with the exception of being more careful about dairy, and no longer eating oranges/lemon/pinapple/granola bars/oatmeal/bread w/oats (which we didnt do a whole lot anyways). His main food is fresh organic fruit and veg that we get delivered every week, and pasta/rice/homade sauces, snacks are fruit, rice cakes, peanut butter, soy cheese, things like that.


The doctor claims that the rash is his body 'clearing out', but it just looks awful to me.

[leighi123]

Sorry for rambling on btw!

[chlobo]

Is he eating more soy since you eliminated dairy? Lots of kids who are intolerant to dairy are also intolerant to soy. So if you have upped his soy consumption that could be it.

[mamafish9]

You also might read up on food chemicals - there are some naturally occurring chemicals in lots of foods that can cause "bucket" type reactions (get too much of them, and you get a reaction). Strawberries and pineapple are both really high in histamines and salicylates, for example. Salicylates could also explain the california baby stuff - does it have aloe, mint, other herbs, etc in it? Multivites are almost all fruit flavored (the chewables, anyhow), which are sky high in sals. Many of these things are also high in histamine, just to make things complicated, but start with sals.

The deal is, if sals are the problem, then it can be tricky to hook up cause and effect, because it's not the same every time. But almonds are really high in sals, so if he drinks lots of that, and you eat lots of fruit and/or tomatoes (and olive oil or coconut oil - what fats do you use?), I'd be suspicious of sals.

For the soy cheese, does it have casein (milk protein) in it? Most do.

If you are vegetarian, you might also look at supplementing B12 for him. Lack of B12 can clog up some detox pathways. And if you discover sals are the issue, there's lots you can do to help with that in terms of supps and focusing on specific detox pathways.

[leighi123]

The doc did say that the histamenes in the fruit is what causes the problem for him
California baby has aloe, coconut oil (both of which he was tested for and fine with, thats what we are supposed to put on his rash now!), BUT it also has an 'essential oil blend' and calendula in it.
All the vitamins were fruit flavors.

Main fruits he likes are the basics, apples/grapes/banana/pears/plums, but sometimes its other things, we get some unusual stuff with our organic food delivery thing! he eats 1-2 a day.

We do cook with herbs a lot of the time, basil from our garden, and things like italian seasoning (bought in italy), and other stuff - Levi eats the same food the rest of the family does, with the exception of his allergy foods - but we try to give him a subtitute (i.e. when we have quiche, his is the same but made w/soy instead of milk cheese). We use olive oil for cooking, although most stuff we try not to use much oils/fats.

The soy cheese he gets is vegan - so it shouldnt have milk in it I hope!

Do they have liquid or chewable B-12? Ive only seen the pills which he probably cant take. Doc said we need to have any supliments tested before we can start him on them, so I'll try and get some to take to our next visit friday.

I have never heard of the sals thing, I guess I need to do some research into that, because that does seem to make sense.

[mamafish9]

Originally Posted by leighi123

The doc did say that the histamenes in the fruit is what causes the problem for him
California baby has aloe, coconut oil (both of which he was tested for and fine with, thats what we are supposed to put on his rash now!), BUT it also has an 'essential oil blend' and calendula in it.
All the vitamins were fruit flavors.

Main fruits he likes are the basics, apples/grapes/banana/pears/plums, but sometimes its other things, we get some unusual stuff with our organic food delivery thing! he eats 1-2 a day.

We do cook with herbs a lot of the time, basil from our garden, and things like italian seasoning (bought in italy), and other stuff - Levi eats the same food the rest of the family does, with the exception of his allergy foods - but we try to give him a subtitute (i.e. when we have quiche, his is the same but made w/soy instead of milk cheese). We use olive oil for cooking, although most stuff we try not to use much oils/fats.

The soy cheese he gets is vegan - so it shouldnt have milk in it I hope!

Do they have liquid or chewable B-12? Ive only seen the pills which he probably cant take. Doc said we need to have any supliments tested before we can start him on them, so I'll try and get some to take to our next visit friday.

I have never heard of the sals thing, I guess I need to do some research into that, because that does seem to make sense.

The deal with testing is that it is for specific foods - and if he's reacting to sals or histamines, then he won't have tested positive to the specific food, but still could react in real life because of the sals/histamines. I'll say here that while I respect testing, in my opinion, experience trumps tests - so I'd use it as a guide, but not the end answer on whether things will be OK or not.

If he is sals reactive, then products with aloe/coconut oil would just add to his reactivity (so he might not have an obvious reaction to the products, but they'll fill his bucket).

Apples and grapes are high in both sals and histamines - so I'd say the nutrition response testing was likely not thorough/accurate enough if sals or histamines is the problem. If he has challenges with histamines, and would react to strawberries and pineapple, it's unlikely grapes and apples would be OK. I'd guess though that sals is the bigger issue, given what you're describing, but both sals and histamines might be a problem right now.

Fats are really important for him, actually - but olive oil is high in sals. I haven't found fresh herbs to be a big issue, but dried ones can be - thyme and oregano in particular (and spices like cinnamon).

The good news is, if you eat low sals for 3-4 days, you'll likely see a pretty big difference if this is a problem. Also, you can really support the pathways that support sals and histamines - magnesium, b6, and molybdenum for sals, and methyl b12, b6, and vitamin C for histamines. We can eat moderate levels of both sals and histamines now with this support.

Ideas for good ways to supp these things in a little guy (my guy is 2.5):

1) Magnesium - Epsom salts baths, 2c in a warm bath for 20 minutes every night, or any other time you see him reacting.

2) b6 - this one is tricky, b6 tastes blecky. The good news is, if you are still nursing, you can take lots of b6, and he'll get it. I recommend a good B complex for you, and then extra b6 on top of it (I took Thorne basic B complex, and then 200mg a day of additional b6, spread out over 3 times a day, to get my son what he needed, but he has high b6 needs).

3) Molybdenum - Nutricology and Allergy Research Group both make drops that are pretty tasteless in water. I'd work up to 3-4 drops a day to catch him up.

4) Methyl b12 - you can get sublingual tablets that taste good and are easy to get a child to take. I use the Jarrow ones (no fruit flavors!). I give DS 2 a day (I split them into pieces and feed throughout the day). Given you are vegetarian, I'd guess B12 might be low, so this is one I'd try as soon as possible (and the methyl form is important here, methyl groups turn off histamine).

5) Vitamin C. Find a sodium ascorbate version, either in powder or capsules (I use one called "The Right C") - it just tastes a little salty, so I had no trouble just sprinkling it on food where salt would be expected.

[Koalamom]

Originally Posted by mamafish9

Fats are really important for him, actually - but olive oil is high in sals. I haven't found fresh herbs to be a big issue, but dried ones can be - thyme and oregano in particular (and spices like cinnamon).

The good news is, if you eat low sals for 3-4 days, you'll likely see a pretty big difference if this is a problem. Also, you can really support the pathways that support sals and histamines - magnesium, b6, and molybdenum for sals, and methyl b12, b6, and vitamin C for histamines. We can eat moderate levels of both sals and histamines now with this support.

Ideas for good ways to supp these things in a little guy (my guy is 2.5):

1) Magnesium - Epsom salts baths, 2c in a warm bath for 20 minutes every night, or any other time you see him reacting.

2) b6 - this one is tricky, b6 tastes blecky. The good news is, if you are still nursing, you can take lots of b6, and he'll get it. I recommend a good B complex for you, and then extra b6 on top of it (I took Thorne basic B complex, and then 200mg a day of additional b6, spread out over 3 times a day, to get my son what he needed, but he has high b6 needs).

3) Molybdenum - Nutricology and Allergy Research Group both make drops that are pretty tasteless in water. I'd work up to 3-4 drops a day to catch him up.

4) Methyl b12 - you can get sublingual tablets that taste good and are easy to get a child to take. I use the Jarrow ones (no fruit flavors!). I give DS 2 a day (I split them into pieces and feed throughout the day). Given you are vegetarian, I'd guess B12 might be low, so this is one I'd try as soon as possible (and the methyl form is important here, methyl groups turn off histamine).

5) Vitamin C. Find a sodium ascorbate version, either in powder or capsules (I use one called "The Right C") - it just tastes a little salty, so I had no trouble just sprinkling it on food where salt would be expected.

You are amazing! I have been wonderingabout the sals thing, not knowing much about it. I would love more info.

Are the levels of vitamins/minerals low enough that I can get it from food to help with the reactions? I eat meat, and I heard that kefir has lots of B's. Or do I have to get higher amounts than possible with food? Wasn't there a big thread about this topic? And what abuot molybdenum, what food is that in?

[mamafish9]

Originally Posted by bluebirdmama1

You are amazing! I have been wonderingabout the sals thing, not knowing much about it. I would love more info.

Are the levels of vitamins/minerals low enough that I can get it from food to help with the reactions? I eat meat, and I heard that kefir has lots of B's. Or do I have to get higher amounts than possible with food? Wasn't there a big thread about this topic? And what abuot molybdenum, what food is that in?

I am a firm, firm believer in getting nutrients from whole foods. But at least for my son, sals sensitivity was an indicator of major deficiencies, and it would have taken forever (even if possible!) to correct those through food. I'm also adjusting to the realization that my son seems to have some genetic needs for more of some nutrients than he will ever get from food (mag and b6 at least, maybe more). So we'll likely always be supplementing those. We got a lot of progress in a pretty short time using supps, so...

I should mention, we do whole foods too - plenty of pastured meats and eggs, kefir (my son loves it), etc. I see the supps as a short term thing at these levels, at least - some may be necessary long term. But short term, they have been a godsend.