I posted here this past summer, describing my worry that our twins (if boys) could be circ'd against our wishes during a potential NICU stay. This is an update to that story/thread; if I could find it, I'd link to it, but anyway ...
We welcomed TWIN BOYS four weeks ago, at 32.5 weeks' gestation. I developed severe HELLP syndrome, went into liver & kidney failure, and had an emergent (not crash) C-Section at 4 am on a Sunday morning.
Babies spent 24 days in the NICU at our hospital. We felt we had outstanding nursing care there. Both are home, growing, and INTACT
Anyway, in our 24 days there, I learned a but about circs in the NICU, and wanted to share some of my random musings. I think that NICU staff, nurses in particular, could be a great source of support to the intact movement, as they are so critical to medical and social care during a NICU stay.
Anyway - in no order:
1. Out of the 15-ish nurses we had care for one or both of our boys, only ONE was pro-circ, and she said she knew she was the only one in the NICU. She was nice about it, explained why (her dad and uncle were circ'd as 40+ year olds and were negative about being intact based on their experiences), but did not push at all. Other than that, every single nurse we encountered was totally, completely supportive of our decision to keep our boys intact.
2. The neonatolgists and nurse practitioners were also very, very supportive. When we got to the day-before-discharge meeting with them, the (male) neonatologist said, kind of sheepishly, "circs?" like he was cringing and expecting me to say "yes.' When I said (simply, not even vehemently), "no" -- he was visibly relieved, said "Yea!" and high-fived the NP. They were both actively, visibly happy that we were leaving the boys as they came.
3. My OB, who knew we were not going to circ, popped her head in our little "cubbie" to say hi as she was getting ready to do someone else's son's circ, and she said, "I actually hate circs. I have no idea why people do this. I am so glad you guys are not doing it!"
4. We were ALMOST witnesses to one circ in the next cubbie. I was so upset by the whole THOUGHT of it, I asked that OB to move to a different area as I didn't want to hear him cry. The OB did as I asked. I was shocked at how much the baby cried, despite having had a penile block and tylenol. I mean, uncontrollably for 2+ hours, then episodically (probably when he moved or urinated) for the remainder of his stay.
5. Related to the baby mentioned in #4, the OB gave a pretty darned balanced pro/con sell to the parents. Well, it was the mother and grandmother, not the dad. In fact, I would say it was slightly anti-circ, but unfortunately the mom still wanted it done and signed the consent.
Interestingly, the mom and grandma cleared out and weren't present for all the chatter between the nurses, NPs, and neonatologists about their decision to circ, and feeling really sorry for the baby, and trying really hard to comfort him afterward. It was very, very obvious that the NICU staff was pretty strongly anti-circ.
6. One of the areas that might help our argument against circ is understanding why these medical providers are against it. The most commonly given reasons were (a) risk of bleeding, which is really serious in a preemie !! and (b) interruption of the nursing relationship. Two also mentioned the parallel between FGM and circ, but those were the exception not the rule. In other words, the nurses were convinced by two real risks of circ'ing, not swayed by potential/theoretical long-term risks/benefits. I often hear people justify their position on circ based on "looks" or STD benefiits that are not relevant to a newborn -- instead, for the nurses in our NICU, the real, short-term risks of blood loss and feeding challenges were more compelling. Maybe that would also be true for parents of full-term newborns, who are also at risk for these immediate health issues.
7. Last thing - a couple of the nurses commented to me that they were amazed that parents would get so worked up over a shot or blood draw (e.g. heel prick) to their preemie, yet would still sign the consent for a circ. Do they really think it doesn't hurt?? or that the shot is worse?! Maybe they're just present for the shot, and not for the circ, so it seems less bad. Or maybe they think the "anesthesia" used for the circ really helps (it doesn't, based on what we witnessed!) One couple had their twin sons circ'd and then they both sobbed when they realized how upset the babies were, I would say inconsolable, and I heard the mother say to the father that she wished they had not done it, as the babies were refusing to nurse and could not be quieted/comforted. It broke my heart. I think this is probably more common than people realize -- parents just agree to the circ "just because" (e.g., for some "soft" reason, w/o really considering the real pros and cons) and then later wonder if it was right/worth it.
Where, along the line of pregnancy and birth, is the opportunity to educate parents FULLY on what circ is and isn't, and what the real risks and benefits are, and what happens during the procedure? Seems like some portion of parents might decline if they had to watch a video of what really happens. Why doesn't this happen?
Bottom line is that I think my worry was quite inappropriate, in retrospect. I think our boys were "safer" from circ'ing in the NICU than they would've been in the regular nursery. OK, true, they'd have been most safe with me/at home/rooming-in, but that wasn't an option given how things went for me in the end. But all is well that ends well, and we have two perfect, intact little boys asleep in the nursery this morning, and I am sooo thankful to those wonderful NICU nurses for looking out for them.
I hope this gives some food for thought to those who are really intactivitsts. I would be happy to discuss further at any time (whenever I have time: I have four boys now! all intact, of course
)
I also hope this gives some other parent facing NICU time some peace of mind regarding a son's "safety" from circ'ing while there.
Cheers! -- Ginny
We welcomed TWIN BOYS four weeks ago, at 32.5 weeks' gestation. I developed severe HELLP syndrome, went into liver & kidney failure, and had an emergent (not crash) C-Section at 4 am on a Sunday morning.
Babies spent 24 days in the NICU at our hospital. We felt we had outstanding nursing care there. Both are home, growing, and INTACT
Anyway, in our 24 days there, I learned a but about circs in the NICU, and wanted to share some of my random musings. I think that NICU staff, nurses in particular, could be a great source of support to the intact movement, as they are so critical to medical and social care during a NICU stay.
Anyway - in no order:
1. Out of the 15-ish nurses we had care for one or both of our boys, only ONE was pro-circ, and she said she knew she was the only one in the NICU. She was nice about it, explained why (her dad and uncle were circ'd as 40+ year olds and were negative about being intact based on their experiences), but did not push at all. Other than that, every single nurse we encountered was totally, completely supportive of our decision to keep our boys intact.
2. The neonatolgists and nurse practitioners were also very, very supportive. When we got to the day-before-discharge meeting with them, the (male) neonatologist said, kind of sheepishly, "circs?" like he was cringing and expecting me to say "yes.' When I said (simply, not even vehemently), "no" -- he was visibly relieved, said "Yea!" and high-fived the NP. They were both actively, visibly happy that we were leaving the boys as they came.
3. My OB, who knew we were not going to circ, popped her head in our little "cubbie" to say hi as she was getting ready to do someone else's son's circ, and she said, "I actually hate circs. I have no idea why people do this. I am so glad you guys are not doing it!"
4. We were ALMOST witnesses to one circ in the next cubbie. I was so upset by the whole THOUGHT of it, I asked that OB to move to a different area as I didn't want to hear him cry. The OB did as I asked. I was shocked at how much the baby cried, despite having had a penile block and tylenol. I mean, uncontrollably for 2+ hours, then episodically (probably when he moved or urinated) for the remainder of his stay.
5. Related to the baby mentioned in #4, the OB gave a pretty darned balanced pro/con sell to the parents. Well, it was the mother and grandmother, not the dad. In fact, I would say it was slightly anti-circ, but unfortunately the mom still wanted it done and signed the consent.
Interestingly, the mom and grandma cleared out and weren't present for all the chatter between the nurses, NPs, and neonatologists about their decision to circ, and feeling really sorry for the baby, and trying really hard to comfort him afterward. It was very, very obvious that the NICU staff was pretty strongly anti-circ.6. One of the areas that might help our argument against circ is understanding why these medical providers are against it. The most commonly given reasons were (a) risk of bleeding, which is really serious in a preemie !! and (b) interruption of the nursing relationship. Two also mentioned the parallel between FGM and circ, but those were the exception not the rule. In other words, the nurses were convinced by two real risks of circ'ing, not swayed by potential/theoretical long-term risks/benefits. I often hear people justify their position on circ based on "looks" or STD benefiits that are not relevant to a newborn -- instead, for the nurses in our NICU, the real, short-term risks of blood loss and feeding challenges were more compelling. Maybe that would also be true for parents of full-term newborns, who are also at risk for these immediate health issues.
7. Last thing - a couple of the nurses commented to me that they were amazed that parents would get so worked up over a shot or blood draw (e.g. heel prick) to their preemie, yet would still sign the consent for a circ. Do they really think it doesn't hurt?? or that the shot is worse?! Maybe they're just present for the shot, and not for the circ, so it seems less bad. Or maybe they think the "anesthesia" used for the circ really helps (it doesn't, based on what we witnessed!) One couple had their twin sons circ'd and then they both sobbed when they realized how upset the babies were, I would say inconsolable, and I heard the mother say to the father that she wished they had not done it, as the babies were refusing to nurse and could not be quieted/comforted. It broke my heart. I think this is probably more common than people realize -- parents just agree to the circ "just because" (e.g., for some "soft" reason, w/o really considering the real pros and cons) and then later wonder if it was right/worth it.
Where, along the line of pregnancy and birth, is the opportunity to educate parents FULLY on what circ is and isn't, and what the real risks and benefits are, and what happens during the procedure? Seems like some portion of parents might decline if they had to watch a video of what really happens. Why doesn't this happen?
Bottom line is that I think my worry was quite inappropriate, in retrospect. I think our boys were "safer" from circ'ing in the NICU than they would've been in the regular nursery. OK, true, they'd have been most safe with me/at home/rooming-in, but that wasn't an option given how things went for me in the end. But all is well that ends well, and we have two perfect, intact little boys asleep in the nursery this morning, and I am sooo thankful to those wonderful NICU nurses for looking out for them.
I hope this gives some food for thought to those who are really intactivitsts. I would be happy to discuss further at any time (whenever I have time: I have four boys now! all intact, of course
)I also hope this gives some other parent facing NICU time some peace of mind regarding a son's "safety" from circ'ing while there.
Cheers! -- Ginny
(seriously, my chart is 
