Addressing concerns in the classroom when you really like the teacher

[amcal]

Last year, we had a really wretched teacher so I requested that my children be moved.

This year, I really like the teacher. She's kind, available, responsive, appropriate etc.... We've had a couple incidents in class that she has immediately handled to my satisfaction.

However, I'm struggling with something. Her classroom is very chaotic. My kids have complained about this several times. It's a combined 1/2 classroom. My 2nd grader is a rule follower. She likes things orderly, she learns best when things are calm and she doesn't have to struggle to hear directions etc..

My 1st grader has a hard time staying on task and not joining in when there is chaos around her. She gets distracted when kids are playing or doing other things. She also has a really hard time if she feels rushed which she often feels because there's so much chaos it takes longer to get things done.

Now, I must say that I volunteer weekly but, the time that I'm there is the time that they're working on special projects. So, for example, right now they're studying food and nutrition so, while I've been there, they've made pizza one day, baked bread another day etc... so, it's not normal math, spelling or reading time.

I do understand that when kids are working on special projects or doing things out of the norm, it can be a bit more busy or chaotic but, for example, on Friday when they were baking bread, the teacher was at a table cutting the bread and the kids nearest me spent several minutes making arm pit farting noises. Kids were cracking up, joining in until there were 5 kids all in the back of the class doing arm pit farts. It went on for quite a while until I went up and said it was enough and told them to get back to their project. The teacher never even noticed it.

So, I'm struggling. I really like this teacher and she is so much better than last years but, the chaos drives me insane and my kids really struggle with it. However, my youngest will have this same teacher again next year so I don't want to alienate her.

I know that my first task will be to observe the class during regular class time to see if the chaos occurs during math, reading etc.... But, as my kids report that it does, if I can confirm this, then what? How do I address it? Do I address it?

[ADirrim]

Giving the teacher the benefit of the doubt, it is possible that she may have noticed, but decided (based upon her knowledge of those specific children) that any attention (even "negative" attention) would merely reinforce their behavior. Personally speaking, at that age in particular, I (whether I was the teacher or the parent volunteer) would have addressed it directly and told the children making the farting noises that I expected them to enjoy their snack with "nice manners," and even if I (as a teacher) chose to ignore it for the moment, I would find a neutral moment to discuss it with the entire class in a more general manner.

If you want to discuss it with the teacher without offending her (or sounding like you are critiquing her classroom management effectiveness), that might be a good segue into that conversation- you could mention to her that during the nutrition unit you observed that the children seemed to have difficulty observing conventions of grace and courtesy and that it might be interesting to have a discussion/teach a unit on manners (which could include anything from waiting one's turn to speak, not inturrupting, attending to the group conversation, requesting something politely, etc). At the root of the issue you are describing, it sounds like there is a lack of respect and courtesy (towards adults and towards each other) in the classroom dynamic.

Alternatively, you could be less direct and tell her what you observed the children doing during her presentation, that you thought it was making it harder for other children to hear and participate appropriately, and tell her that as a volunteer you were uncertain as to how she would want you to address it with the children (would she want you to give them the option of participating appropriately or sitting out, etc). That should be non-offensive, brign the issue to her attention, and you will at least hear her thought process.

[Wild Lupine]

I'm answering this as a former teacher, not as a parent as my kids aren't school age yet.

It seems there are two possibilities here, one is that she's a new teacher, bright, enthusiastic, creative, but doesn't have practice with classroom management yet. The second is that this is her style. Every teacher has their own particular spot on the 'complete chaos - totally orderly' spectrum, depending on their personal preferences, what works best for the class they have, their management skills, etc...

I wouldn't address this as a classroom environment issue as a teacher is unlikely to change their class style for one or two students. If this is how she teaches best (and it sounds like she has a lot of strengths), then this is the way it may need to be. And if she hasn't learned the finer details of classroom management, she may already be doing what she can be to minimize the chaos.

But you can take a 'my kid needs this' approach. Always start with the positive, Susie loves X,Y, and Z about your class, and she's learning so much, being in this class is a great experience for her. But she's a funny kid sometimes, sometimes she really needs to work in her own space/follow a particular sequence of activities/read without background noise, etc... It wouldn't be out of line to say she has a hard time hearing directions sometimes. That's a fact, not a style judgment.

Realistically, I don't think the teacher will or can change her overall style, but she might be able to make some slight adjustments to make things work better for your children, like put them with other quieter children or closer to her so they can hear her better. But she cannot make those changes if she doesn't know, and she sounds like the kind of teacher who would like to know what's going on with her students.

[amcal]

Thank you for your thoughts

She is actually an experienced teacher - she's been there at least 6 years.

And, I don't want to critique her but, it really does seem like she doesn't even notice.

There are times I'm in the back working and one kid gets up to get his water bottle, another follows, then another and then there are 4 kids in the back goofing off, wrestling etc... before I finally say something and they go sit down.

It's almost like she just tunes it out.

She can get their attention when she wants and they will listen when she claps her hands but, it seems like it has to get to the level of complete chaos before she reigns them back in.

[mommytolittlelilly]

How many kids are in this 1/2 split?

I observed a grade 1/2 split which had about 40 kids and 2 teachers. The noise was DEAFENING. I have no idea how any learning could occur in that room. Ostensibly, there's supposed to be some kind of synergy between the groups, the teachers helping each other, kids moving seamlessly between groups depending on ability level, that sort of thing. It all just looked like chaos to me, and very different from the well-run Montessori classroom my daughter attended last year.

Anyway, I think that a split is very difficult for even the best of teachers, so I'm not really sure what she could do differently (other than just not having a split).

[amcal]

I don't know how it works all day long but, it seems to me that the 1/2 split works l ike this - Each teacher has a team mate teacher in the room next door. So, they swap kids for math, reading etc.... based on level.

But, for special projects like what is occuring when I'm there, each teacher has their core group of student.

The classrooms have no more than 20 kids per teacher.

So, during specials time, it's 20 kids, first and second graders. But, during math or reading, it's still only 20 kids at the most but they go with their group that best fits their particular level.

[mommytolittlelilly]

It could be that she's having trouble maintaining control of her room with all of the moving around from classroom to classroom that occurs every day, even though she has her core group when you're there.

You should definitely try to volunteer during reading or math to see how things are going. It sounds like you and the teacher "click," which you can use to your advantage when talking to her about the problem. I would probably say something like, Lilly gets really serious when she's working on something, and she really likes it to be quiet so she can think. She has a hard time and gets frustrated when other kids are making fart noises in the back of the room. Is there any way we can do something about that, maybe create a quiet time while we are reading, or working on our math problems?

I don't know if that'd work for you, but I find that when I like a person, she can usually tell that I'm not trying to criticize her efforts, but rather to find a solution that works for all parties. I definitely think you should bring it up, though, because a calm, organized (yet relaxed) classroom is really important and should be something to strive for.

Unfortunately, I don't think there are any easy answers to addressing differences in ability among kids. We had great luck with Montessori, but so far I am unimpressed with the differentiation (or lack thereof, really) that I've seen in the my daughter's PS 1st grade classroom so far.

[LynnS6]

I'd approach asking her help to solve the problems that you've noticed your kids having. Very much like a pp suggested -- point out what your child needs, when she has difficulty and ask for her help in coming up with solutions that work for your kids. Any teacher worth their salt will be happy to work with you.

The other thing is that I'd go in when it's not special project time, but regular reading/math time and see what the level of energy/noise is.

One of the things that I know about my ds, for example, is that he needs a quiet, orderly atmosphere. Some kids thrive in a high energy classroom. Not ds. That would simply be too overwhelming for him. So, I'm careful to put that in the info I give the school about who a good teacher would be for him. Thankfully, they've listened to me all three years he's been there and he's had classrooms that are a good fit for him. Yet, last year he wasn't being challenged, and I knew it. So, this year I asked for a teacher who's going to push him a bit. Thankfully, he got the perfect one!

So, the big thing is to approach this as a problem not with the teacher, but with what your kid needs, and ask for their help in solving it. Be very descriptive with things "I've noticed that ds has trouble focusing when it's noisy and he's often not on task."

[spalaura]

First of all, it's great that this teacher is doing special projects. So many have cut out the hands on activities such as making bread, cooking, etc. It was mentioned that the bread incident was on a Friday. Was it Friday afternoon before dismissal? That might explain the laid back attitude. Students get awfully tired by Friday afternoon, and this might be time the teacher has allowed for the students to relax and get the sillies out of their system so they can get more work done the rest of the week.