Orthodox Nativity Fast/Western Advent

[Tradd]

I'm Orthodox and our "Advent" - Nativity Fast - begins Nov. 15th. Thought I'd include a place where we could share how we're observing our pre-Christmas season.

I'd be especially interested to hear from the TLM/Traditional Catholic mamas on how you observe Advent. I've always read that decades ago Advent was quite a penitential season, but I didn't experience that when growing up Catholic in the 1970s-80s. Older Catholic relatives have not been helpful when asked. Do you have any sort of fast, such as during Lent?

I'm looking for some Advent music suggestions. Classical (including Gregorian chant) only, please. And if it can be found on iTunes, so much the better! I listen to an AM station at work (all local programing, none of the syndicated stuff), but during the Nativity Fast and Great Lent, I like to put on classical/liturgical music related to the season, especially to get away from all the Christmas-related commercials on the radio!

Thanks!

[Bluegoat]

This is my favorite during Advent. Not quite classical, maybe more Celtic? But lovely and a bit somber.

I've been trying to think about an advent discipline myself. I'm well and truely fat and akward and eating like a horse at the moment, so I think I'll have to take it in a non-food direction. My church has some groups for advent but I can't get to them, they are too far away.

[The Hidden Life]

I'm a Latin-rite Catholic attending a typical small-town parish church; once a month we go to Mass at the Cathedral in Seattle where my girls sing in the Schola Cantorum (lots of Latin in the music there!).

I've always liked the idea of the 40 days' preparation of the Nativity fast mirroring the 40days' preparation of Lent. Some years, I have made a little path of stars starting on the 40-days date leading toward where the creche will be in our house, even though we only observe the usual four-weeks Advent in church and at home. I think I first saw this idea in a Waldorf book, but I've seen it used by other Catholics in the Eastern tradition as well.

We have a little series of liturgical year take-home papers the kids receive in Religious Ed classes; this week's is about St. Martin's Day (Martinmas) coming this week on Nov. 11. The interesting info on it is that Martinmas was considered the beginning of winter in Europe (weather-wise, not calendar reckoning) -- and that he is a patron of soldiers, perhaps that is why Veterans' Day/Remembrance Day is on Nov. 11? So winter and Advent are not far away for certain! We'll make some horseshoe cookies on 11/11 in honor of St. Martin.

I bought a new winter CD yesterday--a combination of traditional, classical, modern and Celtic--Sting's "If on a winter's night." Haven't listened to it yet, but I'm quite excited. I also received a free Gregorian chant CD from Clear Creek Monastery (Clear Creek, SD)--"Hymns of the Virgin Mary, Gregorian Chant, Monastic Choir of the Abbey of Notre Dame de Fontgombault"--you get a free CD every year if you get on their mailing list or donate to the monastery. Very nice!

To me, the fasting of Advent has always seemed to have a different tone than that of Lent; less emphasis on mortification of the flesh and more on joyous anticipation of the goodness of Christmas that is to come. I am not sure to what extent fasting in Advent was observed in the West pre-VII other than for sure Friday abstinence was still the norm. Lots of Christmas Eve traditional dinners are abstinence meals (fish, oysters, etc.)--but whether that's a remnant of a tradition or was common practice to fast and abstain during Advent into the 20th C. I don't know.

In our own home, we don't change our pattern of eating, but we do fast sometimes from other things; we don't bring Christmas into the house early, I limit tv/computer time and recycle all toy ads before they get to the kids in an effort to help them not get the "gimmes." We put up our creche and Advent wreath and calendar, decorate our family altar with purple. There's general cleaning that goes on in preparation for Christmas, much as we do spring cleaning during Lent.

We bring in a Christmas tree on the last weekend before Christmas and leave it bare as long as we can (ideally until Christmas Eve) when we finally decorate it. It stays up til Epiphany (Theophany, Three Kings Day). The creche stays out until Candlemas (the feast of the Presentation) on Feb. 2.

The three usual penitential practices of the Catholic church are: pray, fast and give alms. Giving alms is usually easy during Advent as there are numerous opportunities to participate in Giving Tree or other charitable works. Fasting can be food or something else (as above). I guess the area we probably need to work on as a family this year is prayer: increasing our prayers both for others and ourselves, that our hearts would be made ready to receive the Christ Child.

[Tradd]

Originally Posted by The Hidden Life

The three usual penitential practices of the Catholic church are: pray, fast and give alms. Giving alms is usually easy during Advent as there are numerous opportunities to participate in Giving Tree or other charitable works. Fasting can be food or something else (as above). I guess the area we probably need to work on as a family this year is prayer: increasing our prayers both for others and ourselves, that our hearts would be made ready to receive the Christ Child.

That's the Orthodox triad, as well, but our fast is no meat/dairy/eggs/wine (aka all alcoholic beverages)/oil/fish from Nov. 15th through Dec. 24th (inclusive). Fish/oil/wine allowed on weekends until about Dec. 10-15 or so (depends on the "local" tradition).

For the Orthodox, the Nativity Fast is much more an "ascetic" fast than a "liturgical" one (aka Great Lent) - no special commemorations on Sundays, aside from the two Sundays before Christmas.

I've been Orthodox for almost six years. I find the Nativity Fast to be much more difficult than Great Lent, due to the commercialism, people celebrating Christmas before Christmas, not during the 12 Days of Christmas (which we observe).

[The Hidden Life]

Originally Posted by Tradd

For the Orthodox, the Nativity Fast is much more an "ascetic" fast than a "liturgical" one (aka Great Lent) - no special commemorations on Sundays, aside from the two Sundays before Christmas.

That's one difference I've never understood--how is it that Orthodox continue their fasts on Sundays but Catholics never do. The usual Catholic explanation is that each Sunday is a "little Easter" and therefore no fasting is required on those days. (If you personally decided to give up smoking for Lent or whatever you could continue to abstain on a Sunday, it's just that there are no Church-wide fasts or days of abstinence required on Sundays.)

Do you celebrate Christmas according to the old or new calendar?

[Tradd]

Originally Posted by The Hidden Life

That's one difference I've never understood--how is it that Orthodox continue their fasts on Sundays but Catholics never do. The usual Catholic explanation is that each Sunday is a "little Easter" and therefore no fasting is required on those days. (If you personally decided to give up smoking for Lent or whatever you could continue to abstain on a Sunday, it's just that there are no Church-wide fasts or days of abstinence required on Sundays.)

Do you celebrate Christmas according to the old or new calendar?

Ah, yes, the "loophole" as we called it when I was an Episcopalian. I'll have to dig out my books later. Just home for a few to grab dinner before choir practice.

The fast is somewhat "relaxed" on Sundays. Actually, on Sundays, we do fast from midnight until after we receive Communion - what I'm told the Catholic practice was pre-Vatican II. It freaks out cradle Orthodox when I tell them I grew up eating breakfast before going to Mass growing up (my family always went to the 12:30 pm Mass.

Sunday is a little Pascha for the Orthodox, too, and our liturgical texts reflect it.

I'm New Calendar, or Revised Julian, to be more precised. Fixed date feasts on the Gregorian, Pascha (and the feasts dependent on that) on the Julian.

ETA: and by no special commemorations on Sundays, I meant during the Nativity Fast - only the two Sundays before Christmas - that concentrate on Advent/Christmas themes. It's not like the four Sundays of Western Advent with a special theme each of the four Sundays.

[mamabadger]

Our Nativity fast begins November 28, being on the old Orthodox calendar. We fast until almost two weeks after "regular" Christmas, which has its advantages.

I am going to suggest this for Christmas music. I believe it is all in English, sung by the fathers at a men's monastery in West Virginia.

[philia]

fast

This fast is harder for me than the Great Lent. I will try very hard. Let's keep this post going to encourage each other during our journey to the Nativity.
God Bless and Good Luck,
Philia

[Tradd]

Originally Posted by mamabadger

Our Nativity fast begins November 28, being on the old Orthodox calendar. We fast until almost two weeks after "regular" Christmas, which has its advantages.

I am going to suggest this for Christmas music. I believe it is all in English, sung by the fathers at a men's monastery in West Virginia.

Oh yes, I have had that CD for several years. One of my favorites!

[xekomaya]

Hidden Life wrote such a good post from the Traditional Catholic viewpoint, I don't believe I can do better.

Our "mood" during Advent is much more like nesting. There may be a lot of work to do, but it is all joyous and exciting. For speculating on pre-VII fasting, we have an Ember week where we fast and abstain on Wednesday, Friday and Saturday in the middle of Advent. This was tradition for over 1000 years although it is no longer required. So I can't imagine there was an overall fast (that has somehow been forgotten) or Ember days would be redundant.

I'm so excited for Advent and Christmas this year. It is our first year that we'll be alone for the holiday as a family -- which sounds sad, but I'm so excited for the peace and the ability to focus on religious Christmas without being bombarded with secular Christmas.

[The Hidden Life]

Originally Posted by xekomaya

For speculating on pre-VII fasting, we have an Ember week where we fast and abstain on Wednesday, Friday and Saturday in the middle of Advent. This was tradition for over 1000 years although it is no longer required. So I can't imagine there was an overall fast (that has somehow been forgotten) or Ember days would be redundant.

That's a good point! The winter Ember Days are the Wed, Fri and Sat after St. Lucia's Day (Dec. 13), so Dec. 16, 18 & 19. Ember Days are days of prayer and fasting in thanksgiving for harvest.