mumps out break in Brooklyn

[Gwendolyn's babies]

http://www.wnyc.org/news/articles/143118

[mamakah]

3/4 of the children were vaccinated. Interesting.

[ema-adama]

http://insidevaccines.com/wordpress/ takes a look at the mumps vaccine and explores some of the reasons why fully vaccinated people still get mumps.

[bbrandonsmom]

This is from last year-
http://www.usatoday.com/news/health/...vaccines_N.htm

I found many articles stating that mumps does mutate though, so there are new strains the vaccine does not work against. Seeing as they are saying the cases started from a person who was in Britain-prob a diff mumps strain.

Ema-adma-I was just reading that yesterday, I found a lot of articles stating the same thing on a google search too

I've often wondered why those who chose to get the MMR, believe they won't get it, or that it doesn't mutate, or don't want to believe something that states the virus can change and they could still develop it. shrug.

[Marnica]

http://content.nejm.org/cgi/content/full/358/15/1580

interesting article from NEJM on outbreaks of mumps in fully vaccinated kids

[MyBoysBlue]

I was one who was fully vaxed and had mumps when I was a preteen.

[philia]

Mumps

I had them and they are better than strep throat. I just slept for a couple of weeks.

[just_lily]

My DF had both measles and mumps as a child after being vaccinated. He is neither deaf, nor sterile. Nor dead.

[Ruthla]

Why do they routinely vaccinate for mumps anyway? Did they just lump it in with measles and rubella so they could sell more vaccines? From what I understand, mumps is a "no big deal" illness, whild measles sometimes causes severe complications (probably when it's mismanaged and/or the sick person is malnourished) and rubella can be dangerous to fetuses.

[ema-adama]

I briefly looked into the the genotype of the vaccine strain and the virus in circulation. There is not always a good match up. That is a possible reason for the mumps vaccine not working, as the antibodies might not be effective against different genotypes of the virus.... and yet that is only one reason why the vaccine might not be working... the possibilities are quite impressive.

And yet, parents are told that the vaccine works most of the time, period. Surprises like fully vaccinated populations coming down with mumps takes policy makers back to the drawing board as they try to understand what they missed when they gave the blanket recommendation of mass vaccination.

Yeah, there is loads on information about this on the web. I like the insidevaccines commentry as it kind of put it all together.

[mamakah]

Originally Posted by Ruthla

Why do they routinely vaccinate for mumps anyway? Did they just lump it in with measles and rubella so they could sell more vaccines? From what I understand, mumps is a "no big deal" illness, whild measles sometimes causes severe complications (probably when it's mismanaged and/or the sick person is malnourished) and rubella can be dangerous to fetuses.

In very rare cases, mumps can cause infertility in men/adolescents boys who catch it. Just like many of the illnesses we vax for, its relatively benign in children and *possibly* problematic in adults. Not threatening enough for me to feel comfortable giving the MMR.
I like to refer to this site: (very pro vax so i figure it will always give me worst case scenario with the diseases)
http://kidshealth.org/parent/general/sick/mumps.html#

[mambera]

Originally Posted by bbrandonsmom

I've often wondered why those who chose to get the MMR, believe they won't get it, or that it doesn't mutate, or don't want to believe something that states the virus can change and they could still develop it. shrug.

I think it's pretty well known that the mumps vaccine is not 100% effective (it's on the package insert).

OTOH, as with most VPIs, a vaccinated child who happens to get the disease will typically have a much milder and less detrimental course than an unvaccinated one.

Originally Posted by ema_adama

Surprises like fully vaccinated populations coming down with mumps takes policy makers back to the drawing board

I don't think that's what's happening here. According to the article, 25% of the affected children were unvaccinated. In general, herd immunity is more important for VPI prevention than individual immunization. That is to say, a vaccinated individual in an unvaccinated herd is at higher disease risk than an unvaccinated individual in a vaccinated herd.

In general, the return of VPIs seems (unsurprisingly) to be linked to dropping vaccination rates, not to less-than-fully-effective vaccines:

http://www.yournabe.com/articles/200...xp07072009.txt


After all, the success rate of the vaccines has not changed in recent years - but the vaccination rates have.

[ema-adama]

Originally Posted by mambera

I think it's pretty well known that the mumps vaccine is not 100% effective (it's on the package insert).

But just how effective is it? Clinical trials and real life do not always match up. The Jeryl Lynn vaccine (in use in the US) has come out with a 62% efficay in an outbreak - a far cry from the +-90% attributed to it in clinical trials. Google vaccine failure and mumps and you have lots to pick and choose from.

OTOH, as with most VPIs, a vaccinated child who happens to get the disease will typically have a much milder and less detrimental course than an unvaccinated one.

Do you have a reference for this in relation to mumps?

I don't think that's what's happening here. According to the article, 25% of the affected children were unvaccinated. In general, herd immunity is more important for VPI prevention than individual immunization. That is to say, a vaccinated individual in an unvaccinated herd is at higher disease risk than an unvaccinated individual in a vaccinated herd.

The definitions of herd immunity and trying to pin point just how it works are still evolving.
That being said, with a vaccine that is 62% effective in an outbreak, even if you had 100% vaccination rates, you're never going to get vaccine induced herd immunity against mumps.

In general, the return of VPIs seems (unsurprisingly) to be linked to dropping vaccination rates, not to less-than-fully-effective vaccines:

http://www.yournabe.com/articles/200...xp07072009.txt

This is about measles, not mumps, and so not really relevant to this discussion. If you want to start another thread about measles, we can discuss the information given in the article.

After all, the success rate of the vaccines has not changed in recent years - but the vaccination rates have.

However there are more factors at play than just the vaccine and vaccine rates. Virus mutations, multiple strains of the same virus in circulation at the same time, vaccine strains not covering all strains in circulation...It just is not the straightforward.

Recent Resurgence of Mumps in the United States is a really interesting read if you want to go into more depth behind the mumps outbreaks in the USA.

For the record, I am open to the possibility that outbreaks of mumps can be directly attributed to low vaccination rates. I however think it is simplistic to say that is all there is to the story. And I am not overly confident in the potential for mass vaccination to eliminate these diseases.

[bbrandonsmom]

Originally Posted by mamakah

In very rare cases, mumps can cause infertility in men/adolescents boys who catch it. Just like many of the illnesses we vax for, its relatively benign in children and *possibly* problematic in adults. Not threatening enough for me to feel comfortable giving the MMR.
I like to refer to this site: (very pro vax so i figure it will always give me worst case scenario with the diseases)
http://kidshealth.org/parent/general/sick/mumps.html#

Do you have info to back this up? I spent a good bit of time one day searching for documented cases on mumps causing sterility, because my dh was rethinking the vaccine. I could find nothing-natta-zip-zero All I could find, is that they belived since it caused swelling, it was "possible" that sperm would be effected, but I could find no proof.
I think I came across only one ref about a man from back before the vaccine was invented that was fertility challenged, but who knows if it was the mumps or not. A lot of men have fertility problems. Why didn't any other of them men or boys who got mumps have problems? Why just that one person. So any info you could share would be great.

[13Sandals]

the sterility thing is WAY overblown. it is exceedingly rare for this to happen, and even when it does, it tends to affects one testicle and not both, and one male with one testicle could repopulate the earth (read some Mendohlsen How to Raise a Healthy Child)

and, two, let's stop assuming that the 'unvaccinated' are causing these 'outbreaks'. mumps outbreaks have been cropping up in colleges and young adults for years because the vaccine wears off. just like there were measles outbreaks amoung the college age vaccinated folks in the 90s and the US added the college measles only booster.

when are people going to get it? vaccines wear off. the immunity does not last. not for measles, mumps, chicken pox (already you are more likely to get cp between 10-19 than 2-10), pertussis, flu.... the people spreading disease that lead to these vpd outbreaks are the adults who were never allowed to gain natural immunity in childhood. unless you keep giving adults boosters (cradle to grave vaccines!) there IS NO SUCH THING AS HERD IMMUNITY. We USED to have herd immunity amoung adults because we all had natural immunity. vaccines have destroyed true herd immunity.

[BeckyBird]

Side note about sterility--some vaccines report a chance of sterility. I've heard that the new flu shot has sterility as a possible side effect. Also, drinking too much Mountain Dew can cause it too, lol! (j/k)
Here's a site I just came across, while doing a "squalene sterility" search on Google. It seems like a good article to read. There are tons of other sites as well, so you can do your own search if you don't like this website. Off topic from the mumps discussion, but it shows that the vaccines are often more dangerous than the disease. http://autism-prevention.blogspot.co...-squalene.html
We all need to research the underlying causes of diseases, and how to prevent/cure them using natural methods. That way, even if we are vaccinated and get the disease anyway, we will be able to treat the symptoms. The current medical system focuses too much on drugs, but not really on nutrition and prevention. We need to know what to do, since vaccines are not the "end-all" answer to the diseases.

[Sileree]

The Health Protection Agency of the U.K. states on their immunization pages that the theory of mumps in an adult man can cause sterility has never been proven.

[bbrandonsmom]

Ok, found this, but I don't know how to copy w/in the article and paste.
http://www.immunize.org/reports/report083.asp

It's from 2005, but near the end it states that there was no difference in duration of illness or symptoms between the vaccinated or unvaxed. I've been looking, and can't find any info on if the vaccine actually lessons the effects.

Also I think it's the next to last paragraph-the health care workers missed the diagnosis, because there are so few mumps cases in the US. What-they didn't learn what mumps looked like in training? I guess it goes back to drs skipping over the vpd in testing, just because some one is vaccinated.

I think it's pretty well known that the mumps vaccine is not 100% effective (it's on the package insert).
I don't believe it's well known at all. Take a look at some comments from some of the articles about the outbreak. People are saying "well, aren't they vaccinated, if they were they wouldn't get it". Usually you don't get the insert about the vaccine so the majority does not know this.

Ema-was the strain you found the one in the breakout or in the general US population of outbreaks? I didn't read any of today's news, so unless they said who the person was in contact w/, we don't know how he contracted mumps-vax or unvax person. Do we know yet?

[13Sandals]

Originally Posted by bbrandonsmom

Ema-was the strain you found the one in the breakout or in the general US population of outbreaks? I didn't read any of today's news, so unless they said who the person was in contact w/, we don't know how he contracted mumps-vax or unvax person. Do we know yet?

IMHO - there is absolutely no way to trace where anyone came in contact with any strain. He could have accepted change from the cashier with a mild sore throat and gotten the mumps there. The cashier might not (probably wouldn't) be aware she was even carrying the virus. But - there is no question - they will somehow, magically, trace the origin of this terrible outbreak to someone outside of the US - you know, some country that doesn't mandate vaxes and this person knew someone who knew someone else who was on a plane with a child form Sweden who was diagnosed with mumps 4 days after the plane ride.

[caned & able]

Yes, from Sweden, that terrible, backward, third world country with poor sanitation and no healthcare. That is where the mumps outbreak originated.

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