WIC and Breastfeeding campaign

[khaoskat]

Not sure if this is happening in all states, but our WIC has modified their food packages (I know this part is happening).

But based upon how much you BF, will be your WIC package. They are differentiating now between people who exclusively breastfeed, or those who do a bare minimum (like a once or twice a day).

If you exclusive nurse (or if you have to give the occassional bottle of formula for various reasons) you are now on the WIC package for 1 year. Anything else and you only get it six months.

Also, the amounts and types of foods you get are totally different as well. You get less milk for yourself, you get less eggs, and less fruit/veggie voucher and a few other things as well. When your baby gets older you get a whole lot less for them as well, like 1/3 of what a nursing baby gets.

Also, we have now have signs going up promoting Breastfeeding, I am talking highway billboard signs. I saw two of them today. And they are bright in your face yellow.

[Amatullah0]

Originally Posted by khaoskat

Not sure if this is happening in all states, but our WIC has modified their food packages (I know this part is happening).

But based upon how much you BF, will be your WIC package. They are differentiating now between people who exclusively breastfeed, or those who do a bare minimum (like a once or twice a day).

If you exclusive nurse (or if you have to give the occassional bottle of formula for various reasons) you are now on the WIC package for 1 year. Anything else and you only get it six months.

Also, the amounts and types of foods you get are totally different as well. You get less milk for yourself, you get less eggs, and less fruit/veggie voucher and a few other things as well. When your baby gets older you get a whole lot less for them as well, like 1/3 of what a nursing baby gets.

Also, we have now have signs going up promoting Breastfeeding, I am talking highway billboard signs. I saw two of them today. And they are bright in your face yellow.

yeah, MI WIC at least kinda does that, but at my last appointment the lady said "why in the world are you so adamant about breastfeeding?" or something to that effect. We're nursing with difficulty. We go through about a can of formula a week, and I was asking them for something that would help him gain weight while nursing. She also told me that i'm supposed to be switching breasts half-way through the feeding, but i'm full of foremilk, DS needs to nurse for quite a while to get any hindmilk.

[Ruthla]

They've been doing that in NY for at least 8 years. I got a certain "package" as a breastfeeding mom, and I was "approved" for 6 months. Then I had to re-certify for the next 6 months.

They basically had three packages for postpartum moms and infants: fully breastfeeding, where you get the most food and no formula, formula feeding where you get "the full amount" of formula and less food for mom, or a combo-feeding package where you got half as much formula as the "fully FF package" and somewhere in between food for mom. If you used a teeny amount of formula (like one bottle a day) you'd probably be better off getting the fully BF package and buying the formula yourself (or trying to get free samples from the pediatrician.) If you're nursing once or twice a day, and still need the full amount of formula, then you have to give up the BF mom's food package.

At least, that's how it worked when DS was a baby. I don't know if they've changed anything since then.

[organicpapayamama]

wanted to add that its the same here in CA.

On a side note though, here in CA they say they are all for breastfeeding and will support you and teach you and yada yada if you need help. That is a big fat lie. I can only speak for the office I go to but I got ZERO support with DS when he was born. I was struggling with nipple confusion and they spoke to me on the phone maybe twice for a total of maybe 3 minutes. DS never latched on at home and I was not able to EBF. I was not able to hire a lactation consultant because of the money so I was supplementing with formula while I pumped. My supply got less and less and after pumping for 3 months not filling more than 1 bottle a day I gave up. I was very disappointed in the "support" or should I say lack of support I got from WIC. I feel like its almost false advertisement and setting false expectations.

[Katsmamajama]

Originally Posted by Ruthla

They've been doing that in NY for at least 8 years. I got a certain "package" as a breastfeeding mom, and I was "approved" for 6 months. Then I had to re-certify for the next 6 months.

They basically had three packages for postpartum moms and infants: fully breastfeeding, where you get the most food and no formula, formula feeding where you get "the full amount" of formula and less food for mom, or a combo-feeding package where you got half as much formula as the "fully FF package" and somewhere in between food for mom. If you used a teeny amount of formula (like one bottle a day) you'd probably be better off getting the fully BF package and buying the formula yourself (or trying to get free samples from the pediatrician.) If you're nursing once or twice a day, and still need the full amount of formula, then you have to give up the BF mom's food package.

At least, that's how it worked when DS was a baby. I don't know if they've changed anything since then.

That's what they do with Hawaii WIC. I haven't even delivered yet, and my last appointment they were really encouraging breastfeeding. The difference in the packages looks kind of extreme in the posters.

[sparklefairy]

Originally Posted by Amatullah0

yeah, MI WIC at least kinda does that, but at my last appointment the lady said "why in the world are you so adamant about breastfeeding?" or something to that effect. We're nursing with difficulty. We go through about a can of formula a week, and I was asking them for something that would help him gain weight while nursing. She also told me that i'm supposed to be switching breasts half-way through the feeding, but i'm full of foremilk, DS needs to nurse for quite a while to get any hindmilk.

And she is wrong. In general, one should "finish the first breast first" -- there are exceptions, of course.
The hospital told me to watch the clock and switch to the other breast after 10 minutes. What a lot of unnecessary stress.

[guitarmama]

If anyone finds themselves at a WIC office that is less than 100%, over-the-top supportive of bfing, please look at your state's WIC website, and contact your state bfing coordinator. Let her know that your office is not doing their job! It IS their job to promote and support bfing!!!!

[organicpapayamama]

Originally Posted by guitarmama

If anyone finds themselves at a WIC office that is less than 100%, over-the-top supportive of bfing, please look at your state's WIC website, and contact your state bfing coordinator. Let her know that your office is not doing their job! It IS their job to promote and support bfing!!!!

see and this is where I was confused. although my office did say that breastfeeding is best and promise to help if I needed help, their actions fell very short of their words. when I went to them for support I found nothing. I told them about the nipple confusion and they told me to keep offering him the breast but that never worked. I felt like I needed someone in person helping me which they would not offer. They said dont worry about it, it 2 days you will get the hang of it. I felt very pushed to the side and as a result I felt I have already failed as a mother and that my DS and I had a weaken bonding relationship. I would love to report them.

[Ruthla]

I'm sorry you had that experience.

All the WIC offices give lip service to breastfeeding. How much actual help they provide will vary widely, depending on the individuals working in the office and how busy they are. Some of them don't have anybody to send to your house to give you "hands on" breastfeeding assitance, while other offices have "BFing peer counselors" who can do that.

I would suggest LLL as a better source (still free!) for hands-on breastfeeding assistance. LLL Leaders will come to your home to help you learn to breastfeed.

[khaoskat]

We used to have post partum and breast feeding. They did not differentiate on how often/much you breastfeed. It was the same.

But the new packages do, and there is a huge difference in the food packages. I was just looking at the website because I knew it was coming.

Our WIC office is fairly good about breast feeding and support.

[goodygumdrops]

Kind of off topic to the thread but...


Just an fyi. I am training to be an IBCLC and I just completed my CLC course this past week. New research has shown us that there is no significance to foremilk or hindmilk in terms of fat content. Babies receive a varying degree of fat through out the feeding. Also, we are now recommending that babies feed for a total of 20 minutes, including both sides. This does not account for non-nutritive sucking. It is recommended that you start feeding the baby on one breast and when the baby has emptied the breast(which should take about 10 minutes) then switch to the other breast if the baby is still showing feeding cues. Most babies are not going to remain at the breast unless they are not emptying it well and if that is the case, you should be assessed by an IBCLC.

[kriket]

Originally Posted by goodygumdrops

Most babies are not going to remain at the breast unless they are not emptying it well and if that is the case, you should be assessed by an IBCLC.

really? No one told my DS. That kid will comfort suck until the cows come home.

[Little Bear's Mama]

Originally Posted by goodygumdrops

Just an fyi. I am training to be an IBCLC and I just completed my CLC course this past week. New research has shown us that there is no significance to foremilk or hindmilk in terms of fat content. Babies receive a varying degree of fat through out the feeding. Also, we are now recommending that babies feed for a total of 20 minutes, including both sides. This does not account for non-nutritive sucking. It is recommended that you start feeding the baby on one breast and when the baby has emptied the breast(which should take about 10 minutes) then switch to the other breast if the baby is still showing feeding cues. Most babies are not going to remain at the breast unless they are not emptying it well and if that is the case, you should be assessed by an IBCLC.

Could you please point me in the direction of this new research? How new is new? The latest on the topic that I'm aware of is from 3 years ago.

[goodygumdrops]

The information I received was through the Healthy Children Project, The Center for Breastfeeding.

I will basically quote everything in my workbook...

Basically, they write that the concept of "fore" and "hind" milk is a lot more complex than was originally thought. Fat content in milk varies throughout the day. The fat content of suckled milk increases steeply with increase in milk removal "There is no truth to the argument that to obtain the most nutritious milk for the infant the mother should encourage her baby to consume more hind milk"

Of course, their bibliography is sooooooo long. I am just glancing through and it looks like there are some studies form
Daly, SE on The determination of short term breast volume changes, 1992
Daly, SE Frequency and degree of milk removal the short-term control of human milk synthesis, 96
Daly, SW The short term synthesis and infant regulated removal of milk,93

Also, work by Hartmen, P and Creagan M might find some basis for the new recommendations.

[goodygumdrops]

Originally Posted by kriket

really? No one told my DS. That kid will comfort suck until the cows come home.

Yeah, I know. My son was this way...he nursed forever. However, I now realize that this may have been his way of showing me that he was needing more milk. We had tons of nursing problems so I can look at this advice and see how it could be a reason to re-access a client. It's better to be sure babe is happy, you know?

[AbbieB]

Originally Posted by goodygumdrops

Kind of off topic to the thread but...


Just an fyi. I am training to be an IBCLC and I just completed my CLC course this past week. New research has shown us that there is no significance to foremilk or hindmilk in terms of fat content. Babies receive a varying degree of fat through out the feeding. Also, we are now recommending that babies feed for a total of 20 minutes, including both sides. This does not account for non-nutritive sucking. It is recommended that you start feeding the baby on one breast and when the baby has emptied the breast(which should take about 10 minutes) then switch to the other breast if the baby is still showing feeding cues. Most babies are not going to remain at the breast unless they are not emptying it well and if that is the case, you should be assessed by an IBCLC.

I can see this info being really confusing and detrimental to new nursing mothers. By giving time recommendations I think most women, that are new to breastfeeding, will be watching the clock and not their babies. Haven't we been down this road before?

Not all babies are champion nursers in the early weeks and months. Some take awhile to be efficient enough to "empty" (like a breast is ever really empty...more confusing info) a breast.

I'm not entirely buying the no real difference between fore and hind milk either.

*sigh*

I am wondering if courses giving information like this to perhaps inexperienced (as in never EBF or weaned at a very early age) future lactation consultants is why so many folks report breastfeeding advice being so inconsistent. As in this WIC office really helped me, this WIC office had a "why are you even bothering" attitude type stuff.

I mean, if you have no personal experience, all you can go on are the bits of "fact" given to you by classes. It's easy to explain the clock, it's not so easy to explain all the possible babies cues. You can't really "teach" being in tune with your baby, just encourage behaviors that promote it. It's easy to teach "your baby should nurse for 10 minutes per side".

Not to mention if your asking your WIC office for help breastfeeding you are probably really needing the help and already at a bit of a desperate/frustrated point. You want some one to say do X and it will be all OK when you get to that point.

Hearing that nursing should be done in 20 minutes and if there it's not there is a problem that needs to be assessed by a lactation consultant oh and by the way we can give you free formula is just not helpful or supportive.

(PP, none of this is meant to be an attack on you or your post. I'm just frustrated by all of the stories I hear from IRL friends about lactation constants and the widely different advice they get. Your post explains a bit of the reason for that to me.)

[AbbieB]

Originally Posted by goodygumdrops

Yeah, I know. My son was this way...he nursed forever. However, I now realize that this may have been his way of showing me that he was needing more milk. We had tons of nursing problems so I can look at this advice and see how it could be a reason to re-access a client. It's better to be sure babe is happy, you know?

I agree that the info is useful as an assessment tool for professionals. I just worry that the info can so easily go from something on a professionals assessment check list to a hard and fast "rule" for the average mother.

The same info being used in very different ways. One potentially quite helpful, the other potentially quite detrimental.

[khaoskat]

Originally Posted by kriket

really? No one told my DS. That kid will comfort suck until the cows come home.

All three of mine are/were the exact same way.

Ali will comfort suck all night long if you let her.

[NettleTea]

Originally Posted by goodygumdrops

New research has shown us that there is no significance to foremilk or hindmilk in terms of fat content.

I don't believe that at all. My son was not gaining when he was a newborn and one of the main problems was that he was getting mostly foremilk.

Originally Posted by goodygumdrops

when the baby has emptied the breast(which should take about 10 minutes) then switch to the other breast if the baby is still showing feeding cues.

It took at least half an hour for my son to empty one side. So that 10 minute thing is not one-size-fits-all. I have an inverted nipple on one side and possibly some thyroid issues. I think those things played a part in how long it took to empty the breast (however, the inverted nipple thing did seem to improve eventually).

There were also some other issues that complicated breastfeeding for us (like how my calorie intake was low and that affected supply and fat content...something that nearly everyone downplays), but I don't care to get into anything else about the many problems I had while breastfeeding. My point is to say that the above is not true for everyone.

[StoriesInTheSoil]

I think that using terms like "empty the breast" is harmful as a breast is never really empty. I also think that putting ANY time limit on nursing is a harmful practice.