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WIC and Breastfeeding campaign - Page 2

post #21 of 39
Nevermind I know you all mean well so I'm trying not to be irritated. I didn't realize that my whole post was going to be nit picked apart. I completely agree about many of your points, like the "empty breast" thing. I would never say that to a client.

It's very clear that everyone has formed their own opinions based on experience, which is not EVIDENCE based. I could talk and talk about my son who nursed for hours if I let him, etc, etc but that does not dictate what is true for every women. I was just trying to convey what is current thinking in the professional lactation community.

I just want to point out that Nettletea's situation is perfect example of how this would work to the benefit of women that don't what their doing. If the baby is nursing and nursing, often inexperienced mothers might think the baby isn't getting enough milk and thus they begin supplementing. If they brought this issue to and IBCLC, she/he could begin to have a dialogue with the client about inverted nipples and thyroid issues, both which can contribute to low milk production and thus possibly ftt babes.

As for the low calorie intake stuff, there is again no evidence that supports this idea. Many women in refuge and poverty situations nurse perfectly healthy, while themselves and the rest of the family is malnourished. If someone can show me actual peer reviewed evidence that shows otherwise, than I would love to see it.
post #22 of 39
I think what is happening is that the same information that has been widely available for years is being restated in a different way.

I have some research articles that might be helpful and I'll try to post those later.
post #23 of 39
Quote:
Originally Posted by goodygumdrops View Post
Yeah, I know. My son was this way...he nursed forever. However, I now realize that this may have been his way of showing me that he was needing more milk. We had tons of nursing problems so I can look at this advice and see how it could be a reason to re-access a client. It's better to be sure babe is happy, you know?
True, I didn't look at it from that side. Hopefully if you think you have a problem when you aren't and see a good LC then you get to hear you are doing a good job and that's always nice to hear!
post #24 of 39
Quote:
Originally Posted by goodygumdrops View Post
Nevermind I know you all mean well so I'm trying not to be irritated. I didn't realize that my whole post was going to be nit picked apart. I completely agree about many of your points, like the "empty breast" thing. I would never say that to a client.
(snip)
It's very clear that everyone has formed their own opinions based on experience, which is not EVIDENCE based. I could talk and talk about my son who nursed for hours if I let him, etc, etc but that does not dictate what is true for every women. I was just trying to convey what is current thinking in the professional lactation community.
I'm SO glad you DID post, goodygumdrops.
I'm happy to see evidence-based information about fore and hindmilk is finally getting out. I've been frustrated to see other mamas advising women with low supply problems to blockfeed so babies will get more hindmilk – when that's the LAST thing they should do – or telling women with low supply to get more fat in their diet because it will somehow increase the fat content of their milk (which it won't).
So keep that evidence-based info coming! It's appreciated
post #25 of 39
Quote:
Originally Posted by khaoskat View Post
Our WIC office is fairly good about breast feeding and support.
Ours too. I've only just started receiving WIC and when I went in for our first appointment the nurses were "shocked" when I told them that I was EBF and were VERY nice and supportive/encouraging. I got the impression that they do not see it very often. At my last appt I had to attend a class. I was the only BF mother out of about 10 or so. The instructor kept pointing out that BF mothers get A LOT more in their packages - I sort of felt like she was making an example out of me and was a little embarrassed because I do not enjoy being center of attention. (One of the differences is that EBF mother pkg includes gallon milk, but FF mother pkg includes powdered milk.)

I'm not sure about what sort of support they offer mother's who are having difficultly - I had already been EBFing for a few months. I wanted to ask about the WIC peer counseling program though because I would really love helping someone else, especially some of the young mothers - because I've been in their shoes and it was not easy.
post #26 of 39
Quote:
Originally Posted by Megan73 View Post
I'm SO glad you DID post, goodygumdrops.
I'm happy to see evidence-based information about fore and hindmilk is finally getting out. I've been frustrated to see other mamas advising women with low supply problems to blockfeed so babies will get more hindmilk – when that's the LAST thing they should do – or telling women with low supply to get more fat in their diet because it will somehow increase the fat content of their milk (which it won't).
So keep that evidence-based info coming! It's appreciated
Thanks!! I just took the CLC course so everything is fresh in my mind. In the beginning of the course, the instructors said that we would be relearning lots of things that we already thought we knew about breastfeeding. Sure enough, I did.
post #27 of 39
As someone who is an IBCLC, has a master's degree in a research field, and has been helping women bf as a volunteer or professional for over 7 years, I just wanted to point out that yes, evidence-based practice is important, but every mother/baby dyad is different and does not necessarily conform to absolutes. Even with research, generally what is shown is statistically significant trends, not that every individual in the study had the same results. And case study evidence IS evidence, even if it is not the same thing as a huge, randomly assigned, double blind study. I have seen more women's bf relationships damaged due to a well-meaning dr., nurse, or yes, even IBCLC telling them something in absolute terms that simply was not helpful to them personally, even if somewhere the professional had read research that it was the thing to do. Things like recommending that every baby nurse for exactly x amount of time on each breast simply does not work out well for every baby.

My approach to something like that would be to a) review the research myself, and b) present it to a mom as one option she could try along with other approaches that had been useful to other moms in the past.

Just my 2 cents.
post #28 of 39
Quote:
Originally Posted by goodygumdrops View Post
Thanks!! I just took the CLC course so everything is fresh in my mind. In the beginning of the course, the instructors said that we would be relearning lots of things that we already thought we knew about breastfeeding. Sure enough, I did.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lil'M View Post
As someone who is an IBCLC, has a master's degree in a research field, and has been helping women bf as a volunteer or professional for over 7 years <snip>
Would you ladies mind taking a look at this thread where I was asking about becoming a LC? http://www.mothering.com/discussions....php?t=1158890
post #29 of 39
We just received our new WIC package and my dd is 10months old and breastfeeding. She gets close to 300 0z of baby food. I asked them what on earth we would do with that much baby food. They told me that since she "should" only be nursing a couple of times a day that she needs that much solids, especially meat. Of course she should be nursing more than a couple of times a day and is still getting tons of nutrition from my breast milk. Do you think this new package will undermine breastfeeding by encouraging mothers to feed more solids and therefore nurse less?
post #30 of 39
Quote:
Originally Posted by theboysmama View Post
We just received our new WIC package and my dd is 10months old and breastfeeding. She gets close to 300 0z of baby food. I asked them what on earth we would do with that much baby food. They told me that since she "should" only be nursing a couple of times a day that she needs that much solids, especially meat. Of course she should be nursing more than a couple of times a day and is still getting tons of nutrition from my breast milk. Do you think this new package will undermine breastfeeding by encouraging mothers to feed more solids and therefore nurse less?
Yes!!! I brought this up at my last appointment (though DS is over one so he doesn't get baby food jars.)
post #31 of 39
yup - i thought the amount of food given was ridiclous. And tht it is jarred food. I would much prefer the fruit/veggie vouchers.
post #32 of 39
ok, so I am not alone. My dd has never had a jar of baby food. It is expensive and she likes to feed herself so I just feed her off of hte table. She was almost 9 months old when we started solids so baby food wasn't really necessary. Since she has only been on solids for about 2 months she eats about 2x a day and still nurses on demand every couple of hours. Luckily she will only be on this package for 2 months so I won't have to be creative for too long. I was thinking of getting the plastic containers of fruit and sending them like applesauce in my kids lunches. Any ideas of what to do w/ the meat baby food, I think it is 80 oz we do eat meat so we could add it to soups or stews.
post #33 of 39
Quote:
Originally Posted by theboysmama View Post
We just received our new WIC package and my dd is 10months old and breastfeeding. She gets close to 300 0z of baby food. I asked them what on earth we would do with that much baby food. They told me that since she "should" only be nursing a couple of times a day that she needs that much solids, especially meat. Of course she should be nursing more than a couple of times a day and is still getting tons of nutrition from my breast milk. Do you think this new package will undermine breastfeeding by encouraging mothers to feed more solids and therefore nurse less?
Absolutely, my baby would be too full to nurse if I gave him all that food. It breaks down to something like 2 jars of fruit/vegetables, 1 jar meat and 2 servings of cereal per day. My counselor was real nice about it when I told her that the baby was on table food. She told me that she couldn't change the package but to just donate all the jars.
post #34 of 39
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carita View Post
yup - i thought the amount of food given was ridiclous. And tht it is jarred food. I would much prefer the fruit/veggie vouchers.


(I get a lot of pureed fruit and use it in place of oil in baked goods, though)
post #35 of 39
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by theboysmama View Post
We just received our new WIC package and my dd is 10months old and breastfeeding. She gets close to 300 0z of baby food. I asked them what on earth we would do with that much baby food. They told me that since she "should" only be nursing a couple of times a day that she needs that much solids, especially meat. Of course she should be nursing more than a couple of times a day and is still getting tons of nutrition from my breast milk. Do you think this new package will undermine breastfeeding by encouraging mothers to feed more solids and therefore nurse less?
I know the amount of jarred food you get is way out of line. I think I saw that it was something like 92 jars for a breastfed baby. But if you look at it as 1 jar a meal (so 3 jars a day) that is a months worth, on average.

I think on formula they get like 36 jars.

I wont know for sure on the older kids, until we have our appt. and not for sure on the baby for almost a year.

I am not sure if it will undermine BF'ign or not. I know in the early days of solid introduction that is way too much as I would go through maybe 1 jar every 3 days of the stage 1 stuff. It has been 6 years since I have used jarred foods.
post #36 of 39
The local WIC office near me is great. I wasnt even on WIC when I had number 3 but the LC at the office constantly called me to simply chat or give advice (not sure how she knew I delivered though, but I'm thinking it is linked through my birth center?).

I think it is neat that breastfed babies get 3 times the amount of baby food jars than FF babies get.
post #37 of 39
They've changed it in Utah too, but I don't feel that they're really breastfeeding friendly. I recently quit the program because of this. At my last appointment the lady told me "She's doing so well for being exclusively breastfed!" and that was it. I did a post on my blog about all of my reasons why I quit WIC. http://theadventuresoflactatinggirl....oycotting-wic/
post #38 of 39
Quote:
Originally Posted by goodygumdrops View Post
Kind of off topic to the thread but...


Just an fyi. I am training to be an IBCLC and I just completed my CLC course this past week. New research has shown us that there is no significance to foremilk or hindmilk in terms of fat content. Babies receive a varying degree of fat through out the feeding. Also, we are now recommending that babies feed for a total of 20 minutes, including both sides. This does not account for non-nutritive sucking. It is recommended that you start feeding the baby on one breast and when the baby has emptied the breast(which should take about 10 minutes) then switch to the other breast if the baby is still showing feeding cues. Most babies are not going to remain at the breast unless they are not emptying it well and if that is the case, you should be assessed by an IBCLC.
This seems like not just bad but dangerous criteria.

It takes longer than ten minutes to feed most newborns.

switching sides in the begining is problematic.

Setting a time limit of 20 minutes is just dangerous.

And lastly, what is wrong with non-nutritive suckling. Babies love the breast for more than just the milk.
post #39 of 39
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