Homeschooling insulting to teachers? - Page 2

[accidental_hs'er]

It is funny...

...in a sad sort of way, isn't it? I come from a family of educators. I spent my entire life listening to them rail against superintendents, mandatory curriculum they didn't like, standardized testing, board issued ideas...so many negative things. This is not to say public schooling is all bad just that they, as teachers who cared, were upset over their perceived injustices to learning and the students.

Yet when I said I was homeschooling, all those *huge* problems magically became barely issues. Then it was, how will they learn to socialize, or how will they be tested, or where is the accountability (to whom and by whom is a mystery to me), etc...?

I've always been someone who can listen other opinions then take what I need from it...or not. As a person who came thisclose to going to teacher's college herself, and who has multiple friends who did become teachers, I know how the system works and I know that my kids are doing just fine. The proof is in the pudding. These kids are learning - and without 'certified' teachers.

Sometimes I feel the problems are just reactionary to assumed negativity. I homeschool so I must hate school and teachers are useless. Not true. Teachers get a ton of flack from administrators, parents and students themselves: My kid is so bright why did they flunk that test? Grades are down what are you doing wrong? Stress, please, you get entire summers off?!

I would find it a difficult place to work within. So in that light, maybe it is not so surprising they can be pretty defensive.

[haleyelianasmom]

Originally Posted by Ruthla

It sounds like it's time to tell your mom "I'm the parent here, and we've decided to homeschool next year." and change the subject if she brings it up. Maybe, the next time she starts going on and on about how much kids need school, say "I've done my research and I came to different conclusions than you did. How about we just agree to disagree?"

It probably will get to that point. it has been respectful so far, but I can tell my mom is subtlely promoting school by randomly saying "oh, they kids just have the best time and work so well together! the things they come up with! and of course I help them work at their personal level and give lots of choice time and they spend SO much time in recess and art, music, and gym!" and then when dd said "I'm homeschooling" my mom responds "oh... you're dead set on that, huh?" and when the issue comes up, we just have very different ideas I guess.

[heatherdeg]

Originally Posted by Momma Aimee

i think some of it maybe related to personal happiness and confidence -- my aunt is secre and happy and while she do dooubt some homeschoolers, she has faith in me and most home schoolers.

When I taught, I was overwhelmed with the number of teachers I worked with (I was in an enormous high school with 200 teachers) who had serious insecurity issues. Many of them I felt very certain turned to teaching because it bolstered their confidence to have such an "in charge" position (in the classroom--not the system). I came from corporate and went into teaching. Too many of them would never last a day with the rigors of corporate life.

And many of them KNOW that it's not rocket science and DO (rightfully) fear for their job (or rather, the profession).

Last, homeschooling is essentially telling (some of) them that the time they spent on an education degree was wasted time, money and effort. They don't see the differences between PS educating and hs educating. To them, it's exactly the same. That being said, yeah--a large chunk of my degree is completely irrelevant. And perhaps that's why alternate route teachers are out-performing traditional-route teachers.

Originally Posted by fruitfulmomma

The studies done to contrast homeschoolers vs. classroom schools have repeatedly shown that homeschooled students do as well or better than their counterparts. The argument that children need professional teachers simply does not stand in the face of the facts.

I'd love to see some actual stats... just to on occasion shut someone up with data.

Originally Posted by Lillian J

Y'know, some homeschool parents might actually find it insulting that a "teacher" would feel she'd be so better at providing an education than the families of the children can , that a "teacher" would feel she can understand a child so much better than the parents, that a "teacher" thinks she has access to so much more information about learning than parents can find in all the wonderful places like this one right here - and even that a "teacher" can know a whole lot more about how a child learns than the child herself. I went through the whole elementary ed training process, and, like many others, did not come out feeling I had learned a whole lot - great teachers are a matter of individual gifts, not training.

Yeah... *I* would be one of those highly insulted parents, btw. And I find that if your kid is in preschool or lower grade elementary, the tendency for the teacher/school to believe they know your kid better than you do based on how many hours they spend with them is RIDICULOUSLY high.

Originally Posted by Lillian J

Many of us here were teachers and never bought that there's something so special about the ability of a professional "teacher" to know how to orchestrate education.

I find that, ironically, the few teachers I WOULD allow to teach my kids are the ones that fully support hsing because they agree that any relatively responsible human being can find what they need and the one-on-one instruction (or whatever--less than 20+ to 1) is lightyears better.

I also think that a large part of the problem with teacher who have been teaching for many years is just lack of keeping up with the research (for some anyway). I realized that like most professions, the "kids fresh out of school" were way more on top of the more current research and methods. So the generation you're dealing with may really just TRULY NOT understand that some of what's wrong with the system is what they're doing on a day-to-day basis.

My education degree and the research I found there (tons of it) is what not only what fully validates my hs decision for me, but makes me want to fight for reform for seeing how specific demographics are being "educated" into submission and a life of under-achievement. It's horrifying.

And the people responsible for doing this are completely oblivious to what they're doing.

Sorry... [/rant]

[heatherdeg]

Originally Posted by accidental_hs'er

...in a sad sort of way, isn't it? I come from a family of educators. I spent my entire life listening to them rail against superintendents, mandatory curriculum they didn't like, standardized testing, board issued ideas...so many negative things. This is not to say public schooling is all bad just that they, as teachers who cared, were upset over their perceived injustices to learning and the students.

Yet when i said i was homeschooling, all those *huge* problems magically became barely issues. Then it was, how will they learn to socialize, or how will they be tested, or where is the accountability (to whom and by whom is a mystery to me), etc...?

yes!!!!

[zinemama]

As a former teacher myself and as a parent of two kids in public school, I don't feel at all offended by homeschoolers. I look on them as parents making the best choice for their individual kids, just like I do. Your mother's attitude is not only rude, but odd!

The only time I (as a teacher) am remotely offended by home schoolers is when individuals make comments characterizing public schooling as "warehousing" and imply that the students are practically jail inmates who never get to feel the sun on their faces, being brainwashed by "the government."

But really, that's a problem I have with one or two individuals, not an entire community. I say go your own way and offer more bean dip when your mother raises the topic.

[Sk8ermaiden]

My mom (a great teacher for 30 years) is less pushy, but the way I explained it to her was that our state is so obsessed with the standardized test that the gifted teachers don't even get to teach. Also that our daughter is likely to be gifted (sorry to be arrogant, I was talking to family) and that I don't want her to get bored and be turned off of learning because all they do is practice for the TAXs all year long. I figure you have a short time to really instill a love of knowledge and I would do a really good job of that, but teaching to the lowest common denominator won't.

She nodded and said, "I can understand that." But then again, she is frustrated with the system too and more than willing to admit its faults. She is skeptical, but I think now she understands and is respectful. I have had some really amazing teachers and she knows I respect the profession, but they were all gifted and talented or AP teachers and they are trying to pull the gifted programs from schools here.

[SagMom]

I have many teachers in my family. When this used to come up, I would respond by explaining that what I do is very different from what they do.

*I* could not cater to the needs of 20 or 30 individual students who all likely have different skill levels, simultaneously. I could not keep them all interested in what I was assigned to teach. I could not answer to the principal and the BOE and 40 or 60 parents about why I was doing things the way I was doing them or not doing them some other way. I could not make kids learn things they didn't want to learn. I could not deal with multitudes of "behavior problems" and "learning disabilities" nor with the assistants and aides and specialists sent to help who most likely have different ideas than I do about how to handle such issues.

I am absolutely sincere in this. I am not a classroom teacher and I don't want to be. I find that making that distinction makes homeschooling less threatening to teachers.

[LuxPerpetua]

It's really emotionally difficult when people we care about (especially our own parents) seem hostile or unsupportive of our choices. I personally have never found hitting people over the head with research data to work very well. For me, it's like throwing tomatoes at a brick wall to try and make it move or something . . . it just doesn't work. I think there are probably a lot of issues going on here (mom is insecure about being "needed" in her own profession, mom is insecure about how you were parented/educated, mom is worried about grandchildren, etc.). I personally, think it would be best to 1) disengage from these discussions--"Sorry, Mom, but we've given this a lot of thought and feel this is best. If we see that it isn't working out, we'll come up with another plan"; and 2) reassure your mother that you are not knocking her profession nor her parenting choices--it's important to preserve this relationship, end of discussion. I think each time the topic of education comes up, you should say something along the lines of, "I'm not discussing this since it causes so much tension between us. I love you too much for that."

[Marsupialmom]

Family Matters: Why Homeschooling Makes Sense (Paperback)
~ David Guterson Try reading that book. Or having your parents. It might help.

[Whistler]

Originally Posted by accidental_hs'er

... where is the accountability (to whom and by whom is a mystery to me), etc...?

I found this hilarious. Teachers need "accountability" or they apparently won't care enough to do their jobs well. Since that's the case, it seems parents need it too? (hearing the sarcasm here?) We didn't need accountability to make us change diapers, teach potty-learning, brush hair, keep kids safe, feed nutritious food... BUT when it comes to reading, we apparently need someone breathing down our necks or we won't do it! Especially unschoolers, who keep their kids under a rock?


The ridiculous irony makes me laugh!

*This post is amused, not snarky, by the way. I love irony.

[sleet76]

As a college president, my dad thinks our choice to homeschool is fantastic! He has found that homeschooled college students tend to do very well in college, and he likes the individual pathway they can each take. My mom, a former teacher, also thinks it is great.

My MIL, a teacher, thinks it's great, too. I don't think she really gets what our days are like, but she appreciates the result when she's around our intelligent, well-spoken children.

I have one aunt who says some negative things from time-to-time (a teacher), but she is generally negative, so I don't think it is necessarily about homeschooling, just an easy target for someone who doesn't want to think outside the box.

[elanorh]

Step-MIL is a teacher, and FIL is a retired college professor. And I have a sister who's a principal.

I have taken the coward's way out on this issue, at least a little. We travel ALOT and that would be disruptive to a public school classroom (where Step-MIL teaches) and even to a private classroom (where my sister is a principal). The public schools would have had her removed from the rolls by mid-October due to the travel we did this fall, and I suspect that the private school we considered would have strongly recommended against us traveling so much this fall too. And honestly I would have agreed with them - because in school, dd1 would be learning not just K stuff, but also 'how to be in school,' and that would have really disrupted that.

My sister has told me that she strongly believes that homeschooled children are seldom well educated; the ones she's been exposed to have had gaping holes in their education, according to her.

Step-MIL has been very quiet about it all and so has FIL. They try to keep their noses out of things -- Step-MIL has told us many times about what good schools we have here, and how flexible they can be, etc.

I think Step-MIL especially feels defensive about our choices, since she teaches in our own school district. We've been careful with her to couch it as a solution to our family's travel schedule, rather than an indictment of the public school system here (of course, she is critical of it herself sometimes).

Frankly, my sister's repeated explanations of how classrooms work ("You have to teach to the middle and bring the lower students up, the high achievers don't need the help as much and it's not my job to give them extra work, their parents should be supplementing if the classroom isn't challenging enough for them") has certainly informed our decision to homeschool. I know Ina would be in the oft-ignored higher-functioning group; and having been in both that group and the struggling-to-keep-one's-head-above-water group (at the same time) while growing up, myself, I see no reason to put Ina through that.

It's not an indictment of our teachers at all when I say that I firmly believe that our current system completely underestimates our children's abilities and capacities, while at the same time drowning them with 'just because' work. Kids aren't given enough time to be kids, and they're also not given the credit they deserve in terms of recognizing and supporting what and how they learn.

I actually met Mr. Guterson once (I had no idea who he was at the time) - it was shortly after Snow Falling on Cedars had been published. He is a very nice man.

[fruitfulmomma]

I'd love to see some actual stats... just to on occasion shut someone up with data.

http://www.nheri.org/

http://www.nheri.org/Research-Facts-...schooling.html

You can order a little pamphlet with quick facts on the current research here http://www.hslda.org/bookstore/items/hsprogress.asp - It is free but you might have to pay shipping???

[Lillian J]

Research

Here's a great compilation of research - published in the Widener Law Review - it focused mostly on neutral sources that weren't automatically biased toward homeschooling (121 footnotes), so it's all the more impressive:

Evidence for Homeschooling: Constitutional Analysis in Light of Social Science Research.

Lillian

[purslaine]

I don't think it is insulting at all.

Teachers offer a service. It really is up to you if you partake or not.

Moreover, a teacher who is insulted because "you think you can do as good a job as me with my degree and years of experience?!?" are not, IMHO, seeing the issue clearly. Being a HS parent is not the same, at all, as teaching a classroom. It is almost an apples to oranges comparison. So no, I do not think I can do as good a job teaching a classroom as you - but I am not teaching a classroom.

[heatherdeg]

Originally Posted by fruitfulmomma

http://www.nheri.org/

http://www.nheri.org/Research-Facts-...schooling.html

You can order a little pamphlet with quick facts on the current research here http://www.hslda.org/bookstore/items/hsprogress.asp - It is free but you might have to pay shipping???

Originally Posted by Lillian J

Here's a great compilation of research - published in the Widener Law Review - it focused mostly on neutral sources that weren't automatically biased toward homeschooling (121 footnotes), so it's all the more impressive:

Evidence for Homeschooling: Constitutional Analysis in Light of Social Science Research.

Lillian

LOVE this board! Thanks!

[Momma Aimee]

Originally Posted by heatherdeg

love this board! Thanks!

ytt

[CariOfOz]

Originally Posted by kathymuggle

I don't think it is insulting at all.

Teachers offer a service. It really is up to you if you partake or not.

Moreover, a teacher who is insulted because "you think you can do as good a job as me with my degree and years of experience?!?" are not, IMHO, seeing the issue clearly. Being a HS parent is not the same, at all, as teaching a classroom. It is almost an apples to oranges comparison. So no, I do not think I can do as good a job teaching a classroom as you - but I am not teaching a classroom.

I think if a teacher is honestl that offended/insulted that you choose to homeschool, they really need to take a look at themselves and ask why? I think it is because, especially in the younger years, they know full well that parents are just as capable of teaching their individual child the things they need to know as a teacher in a classroom is So, as with humans in general, they feel the need to tear what we do down, to make what they do look superior. I'm really sorry if my homeschooling insults teachers, but it's not intentional, and I'm going to continue right on doing it until we decide not to anymore

Honestly if someone said that to me, that my homeschooling was an insult to teachers... I'd have to ask them when exactly were teachers told they were going to live their lives free of feeling insulted?

[lovbeingamommy]

[elizawill]

i have a few teachers in my family and several friends for teachers. none have been offended by our choice at all. i imagine if i picked the education system apart or bad-mouthed public schools, etc., it may seem more personal to them, but our conversations are fairly generic. why i homeschool really isn't their business at all, ykwim?

OP, since this is your mom, i understand that you want her support. i'd feel the same way. but i would bet money that she'll get onboard later on. when she sees how wonderful and tailor-made homeschooling is to the child's education, i'm sure her opinion will sway. hugs to you.