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eating dairy in season

post #1 of 13
Thread Starter 
I am more and more intersted in eating foods in season as a giude on what is really healthy during certain times. I wonder if our supermarkets are messing with our health by providing us with out of season foods?

So in the case if dairy
If you lived rasing goat, they have loads of milk in the summer, but almost dryup in the winter. Sheep pretty much dry up in the winter. And in the case of cows, the milk is the best in the spring and summer, spo isit natural to dry them up for the winter?

I was talking to a local farmer who raises sheep to sell mik and cheese locally. He dries the sheep up after a plentiful summer of them drazing on grass. He makes loads of cheese from all the milk he dpesn't sell. So in the winter he eats the cheese when there is no milk.

Another friend I was talking spent some time in Mongolia. He told me about their TF diets. In the summer when the animals are on grass, they eat loads of dairy from yak and horses (mainly) and make tons of yogurt and dry it in the sun. They store that up for the winter (dried cultured dairy). Aparently they wouldn't even imagine eating dairy from animals that aren't grass fed, so they just eat what they have stored in the winter.

How can we apply this to us? How can us continually eating (fresh) dairy do us harm if we are naturally meant to dry our animls up?

(sorry this is wordy, but I am just rtying to get my thoughts out on this subject)
post #2 of 13
Well, I cannot answer your question from a perspective of animal husbandry, but I do have something to offer.

We have been doing TF for about 6 years now, and raw dairy was a huge part of our diet, especially for DS (2.5).

A recent (minor) health issue in DS led me to learn about Ayurvedic dietary wisdom. It takes a little thinking to make it more TF (well, WAPF TF at least, i.e. in terms of fat!) but I am really seeing the value in it.

My info is from "The 3 season Diet" and "Perfect Health for Kids" both by John Douillard. I plan to branch out to other writers/texts shortly.

The view on dairy is mostly in terms of its mucous-forming properties. Ayurveda says we should avoid dairy pretty absolutely in the wetter months (esp Spring) so as not to become too mucousy (esp. kids who make more mucouc than adults anyway), that Summer is the best time for cold dairy, though cool or room temp is probably better. Fall/Winter are okay for warm milk (in temp but also warmed in spice--like cardamom).

Douillard also talks a lot about time of day being important, esp outside of summer--dairy (esp cold) should not be taken in the eveing or the morning but rather when the digestive fire is at its greatest (mid day), and it should not be mixed with other foods (about digestability, biggest issue with fresh, cold, cow milk).

Generally butter is exempt from all of this (I believe)

So how does that jive with the seasonality of milk (farming-wise?) Well, the late Spring, early summer is ideal of course. But what about all that April/May milk? I'm wondering if it should just be left for the calves! I don't know!

We cut dairy almost out since October, and are doing a TON of bone broth, and have not gotten sick yet (4 colds last fall--in 2 months! Same thing in the Spring). We've felt 2 or 3 coming on this season, but they lasted for less than 12 hours and we didn't even need a tissue (just that "feeling" of foreboding cold). They would have been full-blown colds even 6 months ago, I guarantee it!

I am still playing with the Ayurvedic ideas and trying to mesh them with TF and decide where I stand. But so far the Ayurvedic recommendations have cured a persistent rash in DS and (with TF broth!!) kept us cold-free longer than we've been in 2 years!

Here's my plan:

Summer: Cool dairy middle of the day as snack, not with meal, mostly fresh, a little cultured.

Fall: Cool cultured dairy in middle of day (yogurt, cottage cheese, kefir, etc), not with meal, warm dairy in the evening if desired.

Winter: Warm dairy in middle of the day (ideally cultured), perhaps a little warm cardomom goat milk before bed.

Spring: Moderate butter only

I'm still planning to soak in whey or yogurt and cook with a little buttermilk, etc as long as what I am making is 'seasonal' in Ayurvedic terms.

Don't know if that did anything to add to this discussion, but thought I'd throw it out there!
post #3 of 13
Well, IDK about seasonality of all dairy, but I know that my herd share is from a seasonal dairy meaning they don't milk for a couple of months (I'm actually surprised I'm still getting fresh milk. But, they give us frozen milk for those 'off' months, which means I have a freezer full of milk But, I think that folks have been milking year round (via breeding at strange times & feeding lots of hay/grain as needed) for a long time. So.. IDK.
post #4 of 13
Holiztic, that's interesting about the Ayurvedic seasonal eating. Traditional Chinese medicine has similar recommendations I think it's so cool how these traditional medicine systems point out that what's growing around you during a season is pretty much what you need to stay healthy in that season. So tropical fruit (which is mostly cooling) in the tropics and root veggies (warming and building) in cold northern winters. And less/modified milk (cooling) in the winter, when dairy animals naturally produce less/no milk.
I also wonder about Spring milk... At least in climates with long cold winters the grass doesn't really get growing strongly enough to be grazed until April or May. And pre-modern farming techniques the calves would have needed a good portion of their mothers' milk at first to grow strong. So maybe people didn't have loads of fresh milk to consume until later in the Spring, when the weather would be warming up a bit anyway?
post #5 of 13
Quote:
Originally Posted by ursusarctos View Post
Holiztic, that's interesting about the Ayurvedic seasonal eating. Traditional Chinese medicine has similar recommendations I think it's so cool how these traditional medicine systems point out that what's growing around you during a season is pretty much what you need to stay healthy in that season. So tropical fruit (which is mostly cooling) in the tropics and root veggies (warming and building) in cold northern winters. And less/modified milk (cooling) in the winter, when dairy animals naturally produce less/no milk.
I also wonder about Spring milk... At least in climates with long cold winters the grass doesn't really get growing strongly enough to be grazed until April or May. And pre-modern farming techniques the calves would have needed a good portion of their mothers' milk at first to grow strong. So maybe people didn't have loads of fresh milk to consume until later in the Spring, when the weather would be warming up a bit anyway?
Exactly what I'm thinking and going to try implementing! We'll probably start adding a little dairy back as the high temps get into the 70s, and we'll keep it in the middle of the day and likely warm/cultured until summer is really here. BUT I should add to this the Ayurvedic importance of loading up on bitter root veggies, bitter greens, and sprouts in the spring, which goes hand in hand with avoiding the mucous forming dairy in that season.
post #6 of 13
hmm this is very interesting. i buy my raw milk from a small goat farmer, and her goats are mostly dry right now. i won't be getting any more milk for atleast 3 months. which i was ok with, i'm not really in the mood for drinking milk, i guess the season is why. what about cheese? seems like traditional cultures made their cheese in the summer when it was abundant and then stored it for winter.
post #7 of 13
I am very new to TF, just started reading this forum a month or so ago and read Nina Planck's book last year. We've only implemented a very few things thus far and am not sure where we'll go with it from here.

However, I have been seeing Ayurveda practitioners for a couple years now and have read a few books on that subject. For me, I live in a warm climate (San Diego) and my seasonal allergies (eucalyptus trees) come up in the Fall when it is very warm here. All Ayurveda practitioners have advised me to avoid dairy in the Fall due to its mucous-producing capabilities. I believe it is specifically related to my seasonal allergies, but the one practitioner I saw the longest also mentioned avoiding most dairy all winter and to avoid having dairy+meat+bread in any given meal. This has been a real help for my digestive system! Butter in the form of ghee was exempt from "dairy", but the butter outside of ghee was included in "dairy."

Nearly everything else written above about Ayurveda jives with what I have read or experienced.

I am just learning about seasonality and I find this topic rather fascinating! Most information on this topic is written for the majority of the U.S. Here in San Diego, however, our seasons are very different. For one thing, we don't even have four true seasons! When discussing seasonality in this area, the first thing one has to do is clarify how the seasons are being classified! Are we talking months of the year (generic) or lunar cycles (spiritual) or "rest of the US" seasons or "our" seasons??? THAT alone is an interesting and sometimes LONG discussion, depending on who you are speaking with. Lettuce, for example, is grown here year-round, but only the most hardy types are available in the summer/hottest months. If the weather doesn't wilt it before it is harvested, then the small animals get to most of it for it's high moisture content.

So....does this mean we are exempt from seasonality? Just because we CAN grow and raise anything year-round, does it mean we SHOULD be eating it year-round???? DD & I were out at a local dairy farm in late October and we watched a calf being born. There were plenty of other new calves in the "birthing" pasture and baby goats in their "birthing" pasture. It was a hot day (shorts, tank tops, sandals), which is very common here for September/October and even November many years. Maybe our seasons are shifted here due to weather? How does this affect eating seasonally???
post #8 of 13
Well, I know that Dr Douillard recommends some foods that are in season in tropical locales in winter even for those in northern climates. For instance, because avocados are 25% fat, he says those are good in winter for those in, say, vermont. So that makes me think that eating what grows where you live is important, but not the end-all-be-all.

He does mention temperate climates and says you should modify the seasonal diet for your current climate. So if its November and 70, then you would eat something between a summer and winter diet. What I wonder about this, is wouldn't someone living in the tropics eat little protein and fat? That doesn't sound right!

Still trying to figure it all out. I'm mid-atlantic, so I can pretty well just follow the typical seasons at least!
post #9 of 13
Quote:
Originally Posted by Holiztic View Post
BUT I should add to this the Ayurvedic importance of loading up on bitter root veggies, bitter greens, and sprouts in the spring, which goes hand in hand with avoiding the mucous forming dairy in that season.
I believe TCM recommends the same foods in the spring (at least I remember the greens and sprouts).
Personally though spring is the hardest season for me to eat locally/seasonally because literally nothing grows here until May. It's just too cold until then. I suspect it was a traditional hungry period And obviously I am not willing to participate in that tradition! All I can think of that would be available to eat in early spring here would be grain stores, the last of the winter's roots, the last of the winter's ferments and preserves, and wild birds and fish/fish eggs. But maybe "early spring" on the calendar is actually still winter here in terms of food needed? That would make sense because the bitter greens, etc. become available in May when it really starts seeming like spring.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vaquitita View Post
seems like traditional cultures made their cheese in the summer when it was abundant and then stored it for winter.
Yep. Butter too.

Sunnysandiegan, I would try to find out what was traditionally grown around the year in your area pre-extensive-irrigation and focus on those foods. It's possible that without heavy irrigation the food selection in the SD area would be more seasonal than is immediately apparent. Can you maybe find out what they grew at the local missions back when the Spaniards had just arrived? Or even what the native inhabitants grew? Probably leafy greens, for example, would not have been year-round due to lack of water/excessive heat. Or then the greens would have been from drought-resistant plants, not water-guzzling lettuce. And quite possibly milk would have been from sheep or goats, which are better able to graze in dry, scrubby land than cows, which need pasture. Or so I would think anyway.

Probably it matters less to be "really seasonal" when the seasons are less drastic, and of course that's reflected in more foods growing year round. Personally I feel that the calendar seasons are only relevant when they actually correspond to your seasons. Traditional peoples would have relied on their senses to tell them what time of year it was and would have eaten what was around them whatever time of the year it was.
post #10 of 13
Thanks!

When I think about "sustainability", I wonder if any produce grew here back before intensive irrigation. I am very interested in learning more about that. We are headed to the farmer's market in a bit and I will be asking some irrigation questions. All the farmers at this market that I have asked thus far grow organic produce (certified or not), but I didn't ask about irrigation. I've also been reading online searching for grass-fed, pastured meats. I found two ranchers thus far. One is in the local mountains and has to send the cows to LA to be "processed" at a small, well-run facility (according to a couple sources) and then has a store-front near the same market we are headed to sell it. I doubt they are watering all the acres the cows graze on. The other rancher has a unique situation where the cows spend part of the year in NoCal and the rest in SoCal (two family farms, all pastured). They offer a grass-fed beef CSA in several locations here in San Diego, but I don't think the cows are ever actually in San Diego.
post #11 of 13
We went to the library today and this branch happened to have an entire room displaying all the local (statewide) gardening books. DH & I picked out a half-dozen books and the first one I started reading is about California's changing landscape. I'm only into the first few pages of the actual book, but I did read the preface and foreword already. The book has a definite environmental diversity bent and looks interesting.
post #12 of 13
Live in MN. Been thinking a lot about local and seasonal eating.
post #13 of 13
Sounds great, sunnysandiegan!
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