What does TOO MUCH magnesium mean?

[rileyscoutmom]

So, I got the hair tests results back from my dd - she'll be 1 this month.

She had too much magnesium - it actually went off the chart visually.

She had low levels of calcium. (of course she is allergic to dairy)

She had low levels of zinc

And she had high levels of cadmium

She can't do dairy, tomatoes or carrots
We have opted to just not do soy, gluten or corn (GM stuff just ticks me off and me and my 7 year old can't do gluten, so why bother trying with 1 year old at this point.)

Karen

[kjbrown92]

I don't know what too much magnesium means, sorry.
But neither of my kids can have dairy, and their calcium is fine. Do you do calcium rich bone broths, things like salmon and broccoli? Nettles?

[rileyscoutmom]

I was doing really good with the bone broths but must admit the last couple of months I have been a slacker. She seems to want more solid food now that she can feed herself and it is hard to incorporate that in. Any suggestions?

We do broccoli but haven't really done fish. And I have no idea what nettles are. I'll have to look.

Karen

[kjbrown92]

Originally Posted by rileyscoutmom

I was doing really good with the bone broths but must admit the last couple of months I have been a slacker. She seems to want more solid food now that she can feed herself and it is hard to incorporate that in. Any suggestions?

We do broccoli but haven't really done fish. And I have no idea what nettles are. I'll have to look.

Karen

How is she with a spoon? You could use it in soup. You could cook your rice in it? We make a lot of gravy and the kids dip everything in it. They pour it on their rice, and then dip all their veggies in it (messy at that age but some kids are messier than others!). Also, you could just give her warm broth in a sippy cup for drinking. I actually just got nettles and haven't used them yet, but a lot of women here do nettles tea for calcium. We have salmon every 4 days and both my food-intolerant kids started with salmon early because it's a healthy, fatty, nutrient-rich fish. We bake it with olive oil, sea salt & pepper, poach it in water (or could poach in broth), or saute in a little olive oil.

[FairyRae]

Originally Posted by rileyscoutmom

I was doing really good with the bone broths but must admit the last couple of months I have been a slacker. She seems to want more solid food now that she can feed herself and it is hard to incorporate that in. Any suggestions?

I've been using bone broth to make BBQ sauce lately (the recipe is linked in this bone broth thread, but it contains tomatoes--there are other recipe ideas there though!) You can search the archives in the traditional foods forum for more ideas on how to use it--there are tons of threads on bone broth...

I usually just use it to make soup w/, plus the BBQ sauce, but I just read about one mom putting it into ice cube trays and tossing a few into whatever she is making like sauces, meat mixtures, casseroles, etc. (I do this w/ liver and never really notice it.) I think that is a great idea and am planning to try it!

Originally Posted by kjbrown92

I actually just got nettles and haven't used them yet, but a lot of women here do nettles tea for calcium.

If you go w/ nettles, I would caution you to start slowly! They gave me wicked stomach cramps (I started w/ 2 cups a day--too much! You've got to build up to them.) I also may have sulpher issues b/c I got terrible headaches from them, so they may have effected me more than most. I've been using oatstraw instead for the calcium--there is less than in nettles, but still a lot, and for me there have been no side effects.

ETA: I think I need to look further into the gluten issue w/ oatstraw--I'm not certain it's gluten free, but I haven't noticed a reaction in myself or my ds from me drinking them (he doesn't drink them but is still nursing.) Just wanted to share that!

[lil_miss_understood]

I'd be more concerned with the high cadmium than the mag and be trying to figure out how to lower that.
Many of the ladies here have experience with hair tests if you're willing to post a photo and/or your results, you may get more helpful responses.

[kjbrown92]

there are actually a lot of recipes that I use the chicken broth in (curry pineapple chicken is one, I think chicken mirabella is another). Use the beef bone broth in stew and probably in things like beef burgundy. That's without looking at my recipes, but I tend to go through a lot of broth, and we don't eat that much soup, so I must be using it somewhere!

[changingseasons]

Magnesium on hair tests is actually OPPOSITE of body stores. So if your mag shows crazy high, that actually means that you're severely deficient. Calcium is also opposite, so her calcium is probably fine. I didn't take notes on zinc (because our results for zinc were in the normal range), but I believe the zinc results are true to body stores. (I also didn't take notes about cadmium, so I can't advise what to do on that one.)

This is from Cutler's book, and is in reference to the DDI (Doctor's Data) hair tests. Not sure if different hair tests would give different results, but I'm assuming these rules would still apply.

eta: Just a reminder for everyone that it's important to research what the results *mean* before recommending supplementation for things. Not that calcium isn't important, but I think that's something that you can get too much of, especially if taken as a single supplement.

[kjbrown92]

Originally Posted by changingseasons

Magnesium on hair tests is actually OPPOSITE of body stores. So if your mag shows crazy high, that actually means that you're severely deficient. Calcium is also opposite, so her calcium is probably fine. I didn't take notes on zinc (because our results for zinc were in the normal range), but I believe the zinc results are true to body stores. (I also didn't take notes about cadmium, so I can't advise what to do on that one.)

eta: Just a reminder for everyone that it's important to research what the results *mean* before recommending supplementation for things. Not that calcium isn't important, but I think that's something that you can get too much of, especially if taken as a single supplement.

That's bad. My kids were "high" Ca so I thought that was good. I wish when they sent you the analysis, they'd tell you what those mean. They only tell you what high/low of the toxic elements mean. Argh.

[changingseasons]

Originally Posted by kjbrown92

That's bad. My kids were "high" Ca so I thought that was good. I wish when they sent you the analysis, they'd tell you what those mean. They only tell you what high/low of the toxic elements mean. Argh.

I know- it's really annoying that those nice colored bar graphs really don't tell you what you think they're telling you... I lucked out that my local library had the Cutler book.

[New_Natural_Mom]

Magnesium can leach calcium, so if you are supping it you need to pay close attention to calcium.

[FairyRae]

Originally Posted by New_Natural_Mom

Magnesium can leach calcium, so if you are supping it you need to pay close attention to calcium.

NNM, do you mind going into this more? I thought mag helps you absorb calcium--maybe I'm misunderstanding w/ 'leach' means though. (I'm still a real newbie to all this vitamin/mineral stuff...) TIA!

[tanyalynn]

Don't suppose you did the Hair Elements test from Doctor's Data? If mercury is a problem, then the meaning of the regular elements is thrown out the window. They may be accurate (DD was low in mag and zinc and that's accurate for both) but they may not be, and it's erratic as to what's what. But the Hair Elements test can be used to look for mercury affecting mineral transport (basically, systematically messing up a lot of stuff in the body) and then you'll have a helpful piece of information about how to interpret the rest.

[Pattyla]

I thought that way out of range for calcium or mag meant low even if it was way high or way low. It also means likely toxic metals present.

[mamafish9]

If you did a DDI hair test, first step is to check against the mercury counting rules, to make sure that's not an issue (mercury messes up mineral transport, which means the mineral stuff isn't a good indicator any more of true body stores).

Next step is to read Cutler's book - you can get a lot of it online at google books, that's a great place to start.

High hair mag means low body stores, so I'd definitely look at supping mag. Low mag can cause all kinds of other issues.

And high cadmium is definitely a concern, especially in a LO - you'll want to look at possible sources in Cutler's book (smoking is a big one, don't remember the others) and see if you can identify and stop the source. Cadmium also messes with the body utilizing zinc - so that combined with low zinc means you really really want to be supping zinc (it's protective against absorbing cadmium, and zinc is involved in most of the proteins/enzymes that clear metals from our body, as well as being key to good stomach acid and digestion. Ask me how I know, sigh...).

[luminesce]

Regarding interpreting results....I've read several places that hair tests can't be duplicated and in split data samples have yielded non-reproducible results. What is the real scoop on hair analysis? Is it or is not a worthwhile test? Would a urine test be more accurate? I'm trying to decide IF and WHAT to do for DS.

[rileyscoutmom]

You know, I work in a library (have a master's degree) and have been reading a lot - but you all know so much, I have never felt more stupid

Well, we don't smoke . . . what are other sources of cadmium? I guess I'll look around.

I have been giving her a calcium/magnesium/zinc supplement - I crush it and put it in her food.

I have an appointment with a DAN doctor that another member here recommended in December to help with the allergy/food issues . . .

This is all a lot of information. It IS overwhelming . . .

Karen

[rileyscoutmom]

So I found this information about cadmium http://www.naturalpedia.com/cadmium.html

Interesting - it looks like the primary source is actually food and hypoallergenic forumula (she has been on neocate). Plus, sodas - which I am sad to say I drink a lot of (I don't get a lot of sleep).

One of the articles said that probiotics helps your body excrete the metals and I have been giving her probiotics.

Also, one of the articles said it aggected the digestive system - you don't say

I hope she is going to be okay.

[tanyalynn]

Originally Posted by serenitii

Regarding interpreting results....I've read several places that hair tests can't be duplicated and in split data samples have yielded non-reproducible results. What is the real scoop on hair analysis? Is it or is not a worthwhile test? Would a urine test be more accurate? I'm trying to decide IF and WHAT to do for DS.

I think some labs are really crappy, but several of the bigger, more well-known (in circles that do this type of thing) are repeatable and meaningful. And I think in the past, external contamination was more of a concern--I think at least some of the labs have worked hard to fix that issue. The studies I've seen have lumped all labs together and drawn conclusions that way, and sometimes not mentioned that the variance has been clustered in a few labs, but that others didn't show the issue.

I'm comfortable with DDI. And at a practical level, there are a lot of people in the ASD community who are using DDI hair tests as a useful tool, seeing results that make sense and that change with time in ways that correspond well to the interventions they are doing.

Urine can measure different things, and I know a few people around here have found useful information that way, it's just different. Not all metals are excreted in equal proportions in urine (vs feces, for example). Blood is different too, the minerals that our bodies actively hold steady in blood are different than what can show up in hair. Low iron in hair? Not indicative of anemia, but in blood (esp if you look at ferritin as well), yes, very helpful.

[changingseasons]

Originally Posted by rileyscoutmom

Interesting - it looks like the primary source is actually food and hypoallergenic forumula (she has been on neocate).

That's horrible.