My new blog, and "pushing" my son into it...

[mamatobe08]

Hi all,

The other day I had some moms I know say that I should stop "pushing" my son into something before he's ready. I responded that if he wasn't ready, he wouldn't sit on the potty and go almost EVERY time within 30 seconds. If he doesn't want to sit at any given time, I don't force him to. What would you have said to someone who would say such harsh things? I'm not hurt by it really, because I am confident that I am NOT pushing him....but I'm more offended that instead of trying to see my viewpoint, and understand that it's obviously successful, she would say that I'm pushing him to grow up too fast. She said "I potty trained my 2 year old in 3 days." Well, I know that's not the typical experience, she got lucky, but why can't you not judge those who do things differently? Grrrrr.

[sapphire_chan]

I've found that intolerant people are usually too stupid to reason with. One of these days I'll come up with the perfect "whatever!" response to them

[Michigan Mama]

Your reponse sounds good to me. EC is just sooooo different from mainstream PL'ing that I think it's hard for people to understand or fathom even the idea of it. Too bad for them.

[pixiepunk]

for me it's about respecting my child. anyone who's read anything about EC realizes that the baby *wants* to eliminate away from their body and is *aware* of the need to go. pretty much any book on the subject will give you loads of quotable amunition to explain (if you want to) about the biology and how we're born with the instinct not to soil ourselves, just like your dog why would i ignore that, and *force* my child to soil him/herself for 2 years - whether it took 2 days or 2 years to teach them how to use the potty? diapers are a construct of a lazy, germophobic western lifestyle. which is kind of ironic considering that they, in fact, force their child to sit in his/her own excrement on a regular basis.

but, see, that kind of response is not likely to convert any mainstream mamas to your cause

also, i'm not sure i agree that EC *is* for everyone. i have seen a lot of people get way too obsessed with their kids' elimination, competitive with other mamas about who 'graduates' first, feeling angry and lied to because their kid isn't out of diapers at 12 months... of course all of us can go through periods of feeling those things, but for some people who can't relax and just catch what they can without their "eye on the prize" i'm not sure that EC is such a great thing for them or for their babies.

just my cynical 2 cents

[mamatobe08]

Originally Posted by pixiepunk

also, i'm not sure i agree that EC *is* for everyone. i have seen a lot of people get way too obsessed with their kids' elimination, competitive with other mamas about who 'graduates' first, feeling angry and lied to because their kid isn't out of diapers at 12 months... of course all of us can go through periods of feeling those things, but for some people who can't relax and just catch what they can without their "eye on the prize" i'm not sure that EC is such a great thing for them or for their babies.

just my cynical 2 cents

Very true. I guess my "everyone" I was referring to was anyone who is dedicated to the true EC cause. I aimed this blog more for my friends who are looking to get into it, but for whatever reason(late start, not enough time, etc.) don't want to do it. Also as a way for our family to keep up on the progress we're making. Which, by the way, this is day 2 in a row of NO misses, poo or pee!

[hrsmom]

OP, you bring up some great points!

I think there are definitely people out there who would do great with EC, but don't think EC is for them. I think the friendlier it sounds from the beginning, the better. I know I was turned off at first. I can't imagine not doing it at this point!

re: the person's comment about pushing your son- I just read an article on potty learning, and the focus of it was not to let people push you into potty training your child too early, wait until they are ready, they're not ready until a certain age, sometimes even as old as 3 or 4. From that and other things I've read, there seems to be that the current "wisdom" on potty learning is that too early is bad. (Which it no doubt is for kids who were diaper-trained first.) That mama was probably thinking of that. I have also read "why bother with EC, just potty train them in a matter of days when they're ready." I think it's just something people say, like don't nurse a baby when they're old enough to ask for it. Doesn't really make sense or reflect reality, but it gets repeated a lot.

[sapphire_chan]

The sad thing is that even with diaper-trained kids, there's often a window around 16-20 months where they'll be open to being taken to the potty at regular intervals. Basically parent-guided potty learning.

Only there's this pervasive myth that sphincter control doesn't develop until 24 months or later and that kids *have* to be able to button their own jeans before they could possibly be ready to potty-learn.

So you get parents ignoring their 17 month old saying "poop" before using the diaper, and then ending up with a 4 year old who screams for a diaper when it's time to go.

One huge thing EC has done, at least in the natural living/AP communities, is made people who diaper realize that if their kid indicates willingness it's okay to provide all the additional help instead of waiting until they can do it 100% on their own.

Yeah, some kids are, in fact, just not ready until age 3 or 4, but I think those are outliers.

[Carlyle]

YES!!! To everything Sapphire-Chan said. It's SUCH a shame and disservice to parents that we have such an all or nothing mentality. You're either leaving them until they can do it all by themselves, or you're "diaper-free" which is so intimidating for many parents. It's a real loss for many kids and parents, I think.

[hrsmom]

I wanted to comment on the idea of "pushing your son to grow up too fast"... To me EC in the early days is not so much about getting the baby to pee/poo in the potty as it is simply providing them with a place to eliminate besides their diapers and changing them quickly if/when they do use their diapers. I tell people "when I think she needs to pee, I just put her over a bowl" it makes perfect sense to me!!!! When they get a little older, there is more emphasis on where the potty should go, but by then you've been providing your babe a place to go, and the transition is so natural.

I love seeing EC presented as a part time option. Most people do part time at least some point in the journey, even if it's just for one day! We've gone back and forth from full time to part time a number of times!

[DevaMajka]

I'm returning this thread, and have removed some posts. The UA states:

4. Advertising in discussion threads is strictly prohibited. Do not post to advertise your product, business, website or blog or in any other manner from which you would financially benefit. Advertising in signatures is only permitted with a Signature Advertising Package. Blogs linked in signatures may not contain advertising/promotion without a Signature Advertising Package. Information about acceptable board advertising may be obtained by contacting [e-mail]. MDC sales and fundraising information may be posted by administrators, moderators and designated members. Members may not use their business or product names as a username.

If you have any questions, please PM me. Thanks!

[DevaMajka]

(taking off my mod hat )

I know. Why don't people get that it's not about making kids do anything. It's about offering up the option, and they do it if they want. For us, ds loves sitting on the potty- I think he likes the view.

Originally Posted by sapphire_chan

(...) kids *have* to be able to button their own jeans before they could possibly be ready to potty-learn.

Is that a common belief? DS1 still can't reliably button his pants and he's 5. lol

[InMediasRes]

Originally Posted by DevaMajka

(taking off my mod hat )

I know. Why don't people get that it's not about making kids do anything. It's about offering up the option, and they do it if they want. For us, ds loves sitting on the potty- I think he likes the view.



Is that a common belief? DS1 still can't reliably button his pants and he's 5. lol

A lot of the potty literature that was given to me at our 2yo appt said that being able to pull up and down pants was a sign of potty readiness. I think most people define potty "independence" as requiring absolutely no help at all, which means that a lot of EC graduates (at 12-18mo or whatever age) are not really potty independent.

My 2yo still can't pull up and down his pants, and he hasn't missed in forever. Still poops in a diaper though... and we really REALLY tried to start EC with him at 10mo. It was just too late. He got the pee really early, but poop is such a hangup for him.

[JMJ]

Apparently, infants used to be "potty trained" by strapping them onto toilets and making them poop using rectal stimulation. Also, pottying "accidents" is one of the leading stimuli of child abuse. Even if it doesn't cross the line into abuse, I think it is very common for parents to react poorly to wet clothes during potty learning. On top of this all, there is a common misconception that no sphincter control exists until complete sphincter control exists.

Understanding these helps me be a little bit more compassionate toward people who think that EC is wrongfully "pushing" our children into something that they are not ready for. I just try to patiently explain that I offer her the potty. She can choose to go or not to go or to wait and go in a diaper if she likes. There is no pressure and consequence for her going in her diaper except that she is wet, and I change her as quickly as possible. She does not have the ability to hold it as long as an adult yet, but she is exercising those sphincter muscles often and has more sphincter control than most children her age.

Many people have to see it to really understand how little pressure I put on her and to see that she actually likes the toilet. People just can't get out of their heads this picture of a screaming baby being held over a toilet until he gives in and pees until they see what it really is. The only problem with my explanation so far is that my MIL wants us to use disposable diapers so that she doesn't have to deal with the natural consequence of being wet, even for a few seconds! Well, you can't win them all.