Mamas whose cs babe was ascynclitic...

[merebella]

What do you think caused the ascynclitic position? How much of a factor was it in your needing a cs? Anyone feel that it was related to pelvic or hip issues on their part? For those who've had vbacs since - did you do anything between births or during pregnancy to help create optimal positioning?


DS was a cs because of distress after 30 hours of labor, much of it prodromal. When they called it, I had only gotten to a 5. At birth, they realized he was ascynclitic. I wonder how much of that could have been helped during pregnancy or even labor. I suspect it could have been helped more than it was.


Interested to hear your thoughts!

[nudhistbudhist]

looong

I had a posterior asynclitic baby last year... I had been planning a home birth and labored at home for around 32 hours... my midwife didn't tell me he was posterior or asynclitic until she had already decided she thought I should go to the hospital. No one suggested any positions etc to help turn him, even though in hindsight, my labor was TYPICAL for an asynclitic posterior baby. Check out www.spinningbabies.com for more info... I was having one sided pain in my tailbone (left side) and long, hard contractions with irregular timing.

Anyways, I was vulnerable and trusted (unfortunatly) my midwife and went to the hospital, where the OB refused t do anything but a C/S. I said NO! i dont know how many times, and its all on record in my midwives notes. They kept hounding me until I finally signed the consent form under duress. I was sooo mad. I was sad. I was terrified. I KNEW it was wrong and there was nothing I could do to stop it.
I'm 7 months pg now, and I've been going to prenatal massage and seeing a chiropractor. It turns out I have a twisted pelvis from a riding accident two years ago. My 1800 lb horse fell when we were riding. I was still in the saddle and she fell on her left side, crushing my left leg with my toes pointed out. I was on crutches for a month. When I went to the chiro, he showed me my legs... my left is functionaly two inches shorter than my left. This is from the twist cause by shortened ligaments and one side of my body compensating for the other while I healed. My massage therapist also noticed this problem, along with a muscle pattern created by years of snowboarding.

What am I doing about it... I am doing a lot of prenatal yoga to balance the left and right sides, along with lots of squatting and lunges. Both my massage therapist and chiro do pelvic floor and side-lying releases. This helps my SI joint where the problem is. Hubby also massages my SI joints. I'm also doing Hypnobabies because I'm scared of a repeat c-section. I LOVE HYPNOBABIES

Hope this info helps... sorry it was so long

ETA I had SROM which started my labor and DS was at -1 station, and he was turning his head back and forth in my pelvis, trying to get into a good position. It hurt like H****, a grinding feeling in the front of my pelvis. He would do this during a contraction, so I know he was doing his best to get in a better position. I labored for the pretty much the entire time on my feet, leaning forward. The longest contractions I had were 7 minutes (two and three peaks), but with gaps of up to 20 mins in between. I'm not sure if anything positionally would have helped... I think I really needed to be doing things BEFORE my labor to help my pelvis... but I had NO idea that there was a problem. I feel so lucky to have the chance to see what caused the long slow labor... It's helped me heal. For the longest time, I just blamed myself and the midwife. Finding the problem and working proactively to heal it for this labor is helping overcome the incredible sense of failure and loss about my my first birth. We are homebirthing again

[kitkat5505]

My 1st c/s baby was asynclitic, plus he had a big head which didn't help lol. I think if I'd been able to move around more during labor and pushing I may have been able to get him out, but I was uneducated and had a typical hospital birth with epidural. I was able to have a vbac after that with another "big" baby, so I know there was nothing wrong with my body even though my first I was labeled CPD.

[MNHall]

Okay, I apologize because I can never keep my terms straight for positioning...but here's my babies situations....

DS, I was induced...so, my feeling was that I had the spiral of interventions that lead to my c/s! I was induced, water broke at 2cm with him still floating!!!!! (If I only knew they how dangerous and stupid that was, I would have NEVER)! Then I got the epidural shortly after that. My feeling then was that my baby dropped in whatever floating position he was in at the time and that caused his less than perfect position. He was facing my right hip...that's all I know. Obviously he was NOT ready! Like i said, spiral of intervention.

DD, I went into labor on my own. My water broke on it's own. I stayed mobile. I pushed when I felt the need to push, not when my OB told me to push. DD was also facing my right hip, I remember the OB saying that her chin was not tucked and not her forehead, but more the front of her head, instead of the back of the head was trying to present itself.

Anyway, DD was my VBAC! So, while I seem to have been in similar positions, I went into labor on my own with DD. She decended further on her own then DS ever did....however I did need some assistance getting her own (episiotomy and forceps...my choice)...but DS never went below zero station...DD did! Obviously, since DD came out! LOL!

However, next time, I think I'll be doing a lot more things like yoga, chiropractic care, stretches, and visiting spinning babies on a regular basis to make sure my body is as balanced as possible!

[courtenay_e]

My experience is with doula and midwifery clients. I have had several clients with malpositioned babies in first labors...some of them we were able to turn with position changes, but others, it actually took getting them to the Osteopath or the Chiropractor IN LABOR to get the sacrum and pelvis in a better position, to allow the baby better space to get itself into a good position and get labor to move along. Each time I have suggested this to a client and they have followed through (yes, during labor), it has made a difference in their labor pattern and the baby has been born vaginally. Typically, this is after a lot of laboring, and then when the adjustment takes place--BAM! Baby is born soon thereafter.

NOW...it makes a lot more sense to have the care before you go into labor, so that your sacrum and pelvis being in an optimal position allow the baby the most room and movement possible to get themselves into a good position to begin with! I would strongly recommend asking on your tribal area for a great chiro in your area (esp one who knows the Webster technique), or find a great DO who practices Osteopathic manipulation regularly, and start seeing them now, and see them often until you go into labor. Then I would recommend laboring at home until you are SURE you are in very active labor. If your labor seems to drag, or you have any of the labor symptoms of a malpositioned baby, go back in and see if an adjustment can make the difference. But I bet you that with regular care, you will not see that problem.

On top of that, I would recommend NOT letting anybody break your water (or do a vaginal exam at the end of pregnancy which often leads to stripping membranes, which can lead to ruptured membranes) during labor. Let them break on their own! It gives the baby a better chance to be in an optimal position when the membranes rupture...which when left to rupture on their own do so 80% of the time around the time you are complete and ready to push.

[thepeach80]

I firmly believe AJ was asynclitic b/c of my induction. Like pp I was induced at 1-2cm and -3 station. They broke my water early on and I think that led to him just falling into the birth canal in a bad position. I pushed for 1.5 hrs and we even tried forceps to get him to turn into a better position and he wasn't going to. 18 mos and 10 days later I had my 1st VBAC. I paid close attention while pg to positioning of myself trying to encourage baby to stay in a good birthing position etc. I've had 2 VBACs after that and didn't worry about that at all and haven't had any problems.

[perditafoster]

My first was posterior; she might have been asynclitic, too, what with me being induced at like 1 cm with AROM, pitocin, and fear. Sheesh. Anywho, my dd #2 was most assuredly posterior and asynclitic; I attempted a homebirth with her. I transferred after 30 + hours of labor, got an epidural, an understanding OB who manually turned her, and had a vbac. Ta da!

Ds was obviously in a perfect position, since I pushed that big ol' guy out in six minutes after 3 hours of labor!

Now just waiting on dd #3; she doesn't feel asynclitic or posterior, but we'll see once labor starts. I try to maintain good positioning, but it's difficult with three little ones to watch. Sigh. Perhaps some hands and knees tonight, maybe a bit of belly dancing? Ugh, makes me nauseous. Oh well, gotta try anyway!

[etsdtm99]

my first was asynclitic, with a big head.. but i did not have a c-section . I have scoliosis so my hips are tilted (my right hip is higher than my left) my labor was long, and progressed slowly with long unbearable contractions right on top o each other.. i figured they were caused by the pitocin, but w/ my 2nd - i saw a chiropractor during pregnancy and his position was perfect and i ended up with pitocin again and a normal contraction pattern .. they were much less painful than with my first and my labor was faster (baby was 1lb bigger with a 15in head) in addition to seeing a chiropractor (my DS was breech at 34 weeks, turned at 35 eweks) which led me to go to the chiropractor) I paid very close attention to my posture and positioning as suggested on spinningbabies.com .. my chiro suspected my hips being tilted caused my ligaments to tighten up unevenly which caused the positioning issues..

[pants]

Originally Posted by kitkat5505

My 1st c/s baby was asynclitic, plus he had a big head which didn't help lol. I think if I'd been able to move around more during labor and pushing I may have been able to get him out, but I was uneducated and had a typical hospital birth with epidural. I was able to have a vbac after that with another "big" baby, so I know there was nothing wrong with my body even though my first I was labeled CPD.

This was the same here. But my little guy did not have a big head. I was naive about hospital birth and my rights. I didn't move around as much. Didn't have the support. My first was labeled CPD.

[MamaMelis]

My first was asynclitic with a 14 3/4 inch head. I had SROM while he was still floating. Because I was birthing in a hospital and was GBS positive, after labor had not started on its own (and I was on the hospital 24 hour "clock" as a GBS positive Mama with ruptured membranes) I consented to pitocin. I believe that the pit sent me directly into such strong contractions that they were jamming his head down into my cervix in the wrong position and inefficiently in terms of helping me dilate. By 8 cm dilated my cervix was so swollen from his sideways head banging into it that there was no way he was coming out that way. Off to CS we went.

My VBAC I did nothing differently. I did yoga and exercised a lot throughout both pregnancies, and didn't do any special positioning, spinning babies, etc. I firmly believe that it was just the SROM and pit which forced my baby into a bad position, and don't doubt that had I been left to go into labor on my own, he would have found his way into a position which allowed him to be born easily.

My Daughter was perfectly positioned with no effort on my part, and was born via an easy and smooth VBAC.

Good luck Mama!!!!

[sparkysgirl]

my hbac baby was asynclitic with a nuchal arm, 14 1/2 in head, and 9lbs 10 oz all that and no tear! so it can be done. i saw a chiro the whole pregnancy too. now it did take 3.5 hours of pushing in all sorts of crazy positions but I did it. being at home was a huge help. the booklet on optimal feotal positioning has a section on this. also the pink kit might be worth looking into to see if that might hep.

[marrymeflyfree]

Originally Posted by merebella

What do you think caused the ascynclitic position?

I think my second daughter's positioning was off due to misalignment in my pelvis. I could feel that the left side of my pelvis was completely out of whack fairly early in my pregnancy with her. I sincerely felt like a car with a terrible alignment...the wheels were going one way but the body pointed in the opposite direction! I sought chiropractic treatment for it and had a few massages, did yoga and remained otherwise active. It gave me great relief from the funky feeling, but the broad ligament on my left side never truly relaxed - it was tender and tight right up until the end. If I had to guess, I would say that carrying my older daughter may have contributed to it (they are 17 months apart).

How much of a factor was it in your needing a cs?

100%. This baby essentially never changed positions once she settled in head-down. She was firmly on the right side, and never budged. The abbreviated version: My labor was slow to start (somewhere between 42 and 43 weeks), slow to ramp-up, and I knew I was in for a workout once pushing started. Older daughter's labor was quick and relatively easy, and pushing felt good. This labor just never got rocking...pushing felt weird, off-kilter, painful, and went on for a long time. I pushed for 8 hours, moving and repositioning myself the whole time, before calling it and heading to the hospital. I'd been laboring for just over 24 hours by that point. Once there, they gave me pitocin for several hours to encourage a strong labor pattern and give my contractions a boost - and still, she never descended further. During the surgery, the OB said she had a fist wedged between her head and my right pelvis. Older daughter was born with both fists at her temples, so I know that there was sufficient space in my pelvis to birth had she been positioned more favorably.

Anyone feel that it was related to pelvic or hip issues on their part?

Absolutely. I feel quite certain that it was the misalignment and tightness on the left side that contributed to her positioning.

For those who've had vbacs since - did you do anything between births or during pregnancy to help create optimal positioning?

I have not vbac'd since; this birth was just over a month ago. But there are a few things I'd do differently if presented with similar issues again. I'd go to a better, more pregnancy-friendly, chiropractor. I didn't go to the one my midwife recommended, and instead chose someone who accepted my insurance. That was mistake number one. I got a couple of massages at a nice day spa, but didn't want to spend too much dough...next time, I'd opt for a more nuts and bolts massage therapist (the spa folks were hesitant to massage that tight left pelvic ligament even though I knew that was what was needed), and I would go as often as I needed despite the cost. And I'd be more proactive with the positioning tips from spinningbabies and other sources. I did do some things, but didn't take the time to really -do it- right if that makes any sense.

Perhaps those things would have helped, perhaps not...but the path that led to my c-section seems quite clear to me in retrospect.

[spu]

my second birth was a vbac attempt, and ended in a c, for many of the reasons you had too. i labored naturally at home, took private bradley classes, hired my bradley teacher as our doula, switched to a mw practice, spent virtually 9 months on my hands and knees reading spinning babies, doing belly dancing, acupuncture, massage, you name it.

We never suspected that DS was 10 lbs 3 oz posterior, and asynclitic. I ended up having a c because after a long time at being 10 cm, things petered out, we tried pit drip, and let more time pass, took a nap... waited for things to go again, moved this way, that way... they let me do anything and everything we could think of (the only thing I didn't do was any of the cohosh stuff). and eventually, DS's heart tones started to not respond very much to contractions / rise and fall, etc. so we started to become nervous that at 42 weeks, we gave it everything we could, and he was literally stuck.

when i did have the c, it was still wonderful. I was conscious, DH and my doula was there, we had the camera and video. Despite being up and laboring for over 48 hours, i was invigorated and refreshed (thanks to no labor drugs!). DH was literally stuck, and they had to reach up from the bottom and push him up to get him out.

At the time, I was also seeing a urologist for my 8+mm kidney stone, and after DS was born, I had x-rays done and an u/s of my kidneys, and my pelvis was just fine.

So, lo and behold, when I became pg with my next son (4th pregnancy), we attempted a vba2c at the same mw hospital practice, and did everything the same, and it worked! I have a good 2-3 finger diastasis separation running sternum to pelvis bone, and I was afraid that my lack of abdominal structure would prevent me from ever laboring again. But nature guided me and those contractions and the unbearable urge were right there with me - something I never really felt with my first two labors.

so trust yourself. know that every baby and every pregnancy is different. read everything along the way, stay informed, and let nature guide you to make healthy choices.

[Natsuki]

My DS had an acynclitic head position and was almost a csection - it was 52 hours of labor with pitocin at the very end (last couple hours) that finally helped me finish dilating after I stalled out with a swollen cervix at 7 cm for over 8 hours with very spaced out contractions (this was after 36 hours of natural labor to get me to 7cm).

I chalked it up to a 'who knows why some babies are malpositioned, it probably won't happen again'. Hah! Same thing happened with DD's birth, except this time I knew about the spinningbabies.com 'labor techniques' page which was inavluable.

During her labor my cervix was being really strange - dilating very slowly and staying far posterior and thick - contractions were petering out (this is after being in labor for 12 hours - it should have been more active by this point!), and the ones I did have were not transferring the pressure to my cervix, instead they were reverberating just in my uterus which was very very uncomfortable (all that pressure with nowhere to go!).

We tried the abdominal lift-and-tuck maneuver and that is what finally got my DD's head applied to the cervix in a good position, my contractions became a 'normal' pattern for active labor, and she was born a few hours later.

I've wondered why my babies, both of them, were 'off' in my pelvis. Especially b/c I made sure to practice the 'good positioning' techniques during pregnancy, had chiro care, stayed mobile and active in labor, etc... My risk of that should have been low.

But a few months after DDs birth I finally connected the dots - when I was growing up I had scoliosis. Very mild, never required treatment, so i'd forgotten about it. But I believe it made my pelvis just slightly 'off' - enough to make my babies' heads out of alignment with my cervix, enough to disrupt my labor patterns, enough to require outside intervention (pit with DS, the abdominal lift-and-tuck with DD) to make them come down properly onto my cervix.

Next baby I'll be pulling that technique out a lot sooner in labor if this happens again (which i'm expecting it will).

[SAMarshall]

I just recently had my first appointment with a new midwifery practice (I think there are about 8 midwives under one or two OB's) and my previous c-section was for FTP due to my son's head being asynclitic (not to mention HUGE!). I told her about my labor (I received an epidural after several hours of active labor, then we found out his head was not positioned correctly) and ended with the idea that if only I hadn't received that epidural, I could have changed his position. She then surprised me by saying, "Well, if your baby's head is asynclitic, there really isn't anything you can do, epidural or not." I didn't want to start an argument with her at my first appointment, but I don't agree with that statement! You'd think a midwife that has been practicing for several years would not think that way.

On another note, she also told me that since I labored so long with my first child, dilated completely, and pushed for 2 hours, I actually had a worse chance of VBAC success than someone who had not gone into labor, but had received a scheduled c-section. This is because my body has already "tried and failed" type of thing, and it's possible that I'm just not capable of giving birth vaginally. She said I had about 60% chance of success.

I don't know for sure what I can do differently with this baby to ensure his/her head is not asynclitic, but I'm definitely not going to just assume there is NOTHING I can do if it is! I sure as heck will try every position, technique, movement, and whatever else I need to do before I consent to more surgery!

[spu]

Originally Posted by SAMarshall

I just recently had my first appointment with a new midwifery practice (I think there are about 8 midwives under one or two OB's) and my previous c-section was for FTP due to my son's head being asynclitic (not to mention HUGE!). I told her about my labor (I received an epidural after several hours of active labor, then we found out his head was not positioned correctly) and ended with the idea that if only I hadn't received that epidural, I could have changed his position. She then surprised me by saying, "Well, if your baby's head is asynclitic, there really isn't anything you can do, epidural or not." I didn't want to start an argument with her at my first appointment, but I don't agree with that statement! You'd think a midwife that has been practicing for several years would not think that way.

On another note, she also told me that since I labored so long with my first child, dilated completely, and pushed for 2 hours, I actually had a worse chance of VBAC success than someone who had not gone into labor, but had received a scheduled c-section. This is because my body has already "tried and failed" type of thing, and it's possible that I'm just not capable of giving birth vaginally. She said I had about 60% chance of success.

I don't know for sure what I can do differently with this baby to ensure his/her head is not asynclitic, but I'm definitely not going to just assume there is NOTHING I can do if it is! I sure as heck will try every position, technique, movement, and whatever else I need to do before I consent to more surgery!

you are so right, mama. I am really surprised by the information from the mw. it seems so opposite of everything we strive for and what we've read and seen from other mamas. i think that since you got to 10, and labored, you're a great candidate for a vbac. can you request to see a different mw? at the place where I was, I definitely had my preferences for a few of the mw's, and didn't care much for some of the others. keep searching. and good luck!

[HiItsMeSandy]

My DS was async. and I pushed for less than an hour but had aweful back labor. He looked like Gumbi-Head for a month, but he head evened out with careful sleep positioning.

[rainbowmoon]

I had a 30+ hour labor with my c/s baby. He was asynclintic and just never decsended as his head kept getting stuck (basically sideways)..he came out with a cone head when all was said and done. I pushed for about 5 hours before basically consenting to a c/s out of pure exhaustion..

I did not have a good experience prior to labor starting though and I was basically assaulted by my MW (She stripped my membranes during a routine vaginal check forcefully without consent) my water broke a few hours later and he wasn't in a good position.

Labor was soooo painful and stalled and stopped. We tried to augment and do some positioning manuvers after transferring from the birth center to hospital (Birth center was totally useless for us and it was just a super bad experience). I basically was left alone in the birth tub for 14 hours with NO support until I transferred to the hospital. was offered no food. nothing..it sucked. The nurses at the hospital were actually WAY more helpful than the MW's who abandoned me!


Anyway..

With my next babe (successful VBAC) I was just SUPER vigilant about her position form about 35 weeks on. NO elevating my legs above my pelvis for prolonged periods of time, no bucket seats, spent lots of time on hand and knees everyday, etc. I used the spinning babies website and the Optimal Fetal Positioning book, my VBAC labor & birth was actually such a breeze in comparison! I remember even right up to the point she was being pushed out waiting for the excrutiating pain of my first labor (never happened and it was just alot easier!) Less than 12 hours from start to finish and she came out perfectly. Though I seem to have long pushing stages as I was pushy for about 4 hours prior to her being born..I just made sure to change my position in labor after EACH contraction. It helped so much!

[merebella]

Ladies,
Thank you, thank you for your replies! Congrats to those who've had subsequent vbacs (and to those who are still trying!) This really confirms a lot of what I was thinking. My hips/pelvis are a mess. I currently don't have ins that covers chiro or massage or really anything but catastrophic, but I'm thinking about just biting the bullet and at least seeing someone occasionally until I get on better ins (when DH graduates in fall 2010) since we want to start trying again in winter/spring 2011. I know this won't resolve itself in a matter of a couple months.

Please feel free to share any more details of what you did that you felt was helpful or key between births or during pregnancy or labor.

Thank you!

[redmach03]

I had a posterior asynclitic baby last year that ended in c/s...

What I think caused the postitioning is really partly my fault. As I am doing more research on this I am finding that posture during pregnancy plays a big part on how your baby rests in your body. Supposedly sitting at the computer hunched over is not a good position and also reclining in a recliner and sitting crossing your legs gives the baby less room in your pelvis so sometimes they move to a posterior position because they have more room that way. I did ALL these things!! ALL the time!! Oops.... I did do chiropractic care up until the last month and a half of pregnancy and I think back now that I should have continued.

I think it wouldn't have been a factor for my c/s if I had did more positions during labor to get her to turn and move her body and I partly blame my midwife for not suggesting these positions and myself for not asking..but at that time I had been in labor for two days and my brain was seriously not functioning. I think it could have been as simple as moving around and trying to get her to move but we just didn't try it at that time. It ended up in hospital transfer and of course I ended up not being as mobile in the hospital I labored for two more days and stalled at a 7 because her head just wasn't pushing on my cervix enough to dilate me fully (IMO) I was so tired and in so much pain and pretty much done by that point and asked for a c/s. Her head definately wasn't in the right position my mw said she could feel a definate space between the baby's head and my cervix and when I got into really active labor the contrax were pushing her down but her head was not going through my hips....my hips were SO SO sore after all of that and her head was bruised.

I am pregnant again! So this time I plan on doing chiropractic care up until my EDD and I'm doing yoga. I also plan on doing a lot of exercises to help my baby get into a better position. *fingers crossed!*