i think my hens are too small

[daisycullen2003]

hi all,

i have been happily feeding my 12 week old chickens a homemade mix since they were born and just happened to see a picture today of a hen online which was the same age and breed as some of my chickens and my chickens are no kidding at least 1/2 the size. then i started to panic and looked for more photos and yes, my girls are really about 1/2 the size of other chickens their same age. i am also accounting for various breeds.

anyhow, i feel awful and hope i haven't completely stunted their growth and affected future laying potential.

my idea in doing this was to use local grains and give them a soy free mix. is there anyone else out there that does soy free/fish meal free food for chicks and have your chickens been healthy? my seem to be healthy, but very small.

my plan for now is to continue w/ their feed but increase their protein foods (raw meaty bones, cooked eggs, yogurt and leftover cooked meats) by a lot because i am guessing that i was not giving them enough. but how the heck do i know how much is enough?

thanks for any advice you might have. i wanted to order a few bags of country side naturals mix but the shipping cost is crazy expensive all the way out here to california.

thanks,
lisa

[jessaries]

I just gave up mixing feed, it was so much of a mess running to various places to get all the ingredients and my chickens really didn't eat it. I'm saying, I fill the containers, they are still full the next day. It was downright frustrating to spend so much money, and time getting all of that together for the girls to turn their noses up. My dh bought something somewhat 'natural' at the feed store and I'm looking into a soy free natural blend made by nutrina? here in Texas. The big reason for soy free was I am pretty sensitive to it and try to eliminate from our diets. I *think* they are eating more of the new food.
I have a feeling my hens are a bit small too. I think they will catch up though. We do let them loose in the backyard for most of the day and they seem to be eating bugs and grass for a big chunk of time. (from the spouting section at the health foods store I buy alfalfa, broccoli and clover seeds, mix in some quinoa that sprouts, this seems way cheaper than buying seeds from a seed company.) and toss that around the yard every few weeks so they have happy little sprouts to eat.
We also give them lots of garden scraps and kitchen scraps, the more fruit/veg we eat, the more they eat!

[blastomom]

There may be some lasting health issues if your chooks were not getting enough protein since they hatched, but then again, putting them on a better-balanced feed now might lit them catch up without any ill-effects. Chickens are funny like that. My guess is that a heritage breed may recover better than a hybrid since they are better foragers to begin with and haven't been bred up to have that rapid initial growth curve.

For future hatches I would definitely recommend a commercial chick starter, even if you can't get your hands on a great organic product like Countryside Naturals (they really are great BTW, but I am lucky enough to be able to go and pick it up from the source).

Good luck, I bet your little ones will recover despite the slow start.

[StrongBeliever]

I have the same "problem" but let me lay out for you my experiences... I have many hens of all kinds of breeds. In their early days, they got a commercial chick starter. But since the time they were big enough to be on grass, they have been on a soy free mostly corn/free diet, scrabbled together as best I can manage by myself. Mostly, the only thing I give them is wheat. Plain. Sometimes soaked or sprouted. And they lay and lay and lay. In fact, last winter they provided eggs the whole time, never molting. They lay medium to large eggs. And they are small. Compared to my mother's hens who also free range, but who also have a bottomless food dish of commercial egg layer ration, they are about half the size. But to me the proof is in the pudding. I have far less sickness in my birds. They seem to get around easier. They forage far and wide, where as my mom's birds won't go up the hill to get to the grass. Way I look at it, my birds are closer to their wild counterparts. You've gotta ask yourself, is is better to be fatter? Or even better to be hugely muscled? Generally speaking for most creatures it is best to be closest to your natural state. No couch potato body builder fat booty lazy birds for me.
I don't know if your birds are free range or not, but if they ARE: Supplying them with a high quality food where they get the bulk of their calories and protein(in my case wheat) they will pick up enough vitamins, minerals, amino acids, supplemental proteins and what-not from their daily meanderings to complete their diet.
Just for the record I also raised over thirty MEAT BIRDS... Broilers DESIGNED to eat commercial soy/corn rations on a completely soy/corn free diet with no ill effects and only a very slight decrease in gains. I'll never look back to commercial rations again.
If you aren't free range... Well... Try to emulate a diverse natural diet. Think protein combos. Like beans(though birds aren't supposed to have beans! NO SOY! though you know that) and rice make a complete protein. Corn and wheat do as well. I am looking next year to grow my own millet, sorghum and milo, as they are closer to the grains that a chicken might find in nature and are all pretty nutrient dense and high protein. Mixing a multitude of quality grains to get a good amino profile will take care of a lot. Give them grass clippings. You'd be surprised how much chickens LOVE grass, that and it is SOOO amazingly nutritious, rounding out any deficient diet. Leaf litter is good too... They will pick through and find bugs and get some minerals from the leaves themselves, as well as beneficial microbes. Not to mention good exercise from scratching. And you are right on point with adding some extra protein... It certainly won't hurt.
Being creative will go a long way towards rounding out your little birdies diets. Variety helps! Oh... And just so you know... You can raise meal worms super cheap and quite quickly. Birds love em!

[daisycullen2003]

hi,

thanks so much for your replies. i have been thinking a lot about this and i think for now i will stick w/ what i am doing. at least i will know if it works! they all seem very healthy. i have upped the protein in the feed and in their extras. i also hope to get them back out on grass here soon once we fortify their coop.

thanks again!
lisa

[tayndrewsmama]

How are your birds now? I was looking into soy-free feed and everyone told me that they won't get enough protein without it. :/

[Shahbazin]

Here's a couple of links for feed mixes from before soy was fed to everything:
Scroll down to "Traditional Feed Recipes" (1912)
http://www.lionsgrip.com/recipes.html

What chickens ate in 1945
http://www.gov.mb.ca/agriculture/liv...f/bba01s12.pdf

Some fiddling with amounts needed, but gives you an idea of ingredients/proportions.

[FarmerCathy]

I contacted someone who made their own feed. It is a little labor intensive, but if anyone wants the info I will post it here so you can take what you want from it. I'm getting some kefir grains in a couple of days so that I can give them that soon.

Most of my feed information comes directly from the articles and conversations, both in person and e-mail, that I've had with Harvey Ussery in Hume, VA. His articles, most of which have appeared in Backyard Poultry, Countryside and Mother Earth News are all on his website www.themodernhomestead.us or www.themodernhomestead.us/article/Poultry.html

My current feeding regimen:
the main flock: (about 18 birds - 16 hens, 2 roosters with production of 6-10 eggs/day right now)

* one 5 gallon bucket about half full of mixed sprouted grains (we are currently getting bulk delivery of organic grains to a local farm that has a small silo.) sprinkled with mineral pre-mix (that is about 8-10 quarts of grain/seeds sprouted for 2 days)
* 1-2 pounds of greens (grass, kale, lettuce, weeds, chickweed, miner's lettuce (when in season!) or free range to pasture
* Kefir/sour skim milk (I keep goats & a cow) - about 1-2 qts fed every other day in a rubber pan
* any bones plus bits of meat left over from stock & and other kitchen scraps (during the school year, I get one or two buckets/week of lunch and snack scraps from a small local charter school
* I have two maggot buckets that I keep well stocked (see Harvey's article http://www.themodernhomestead.us/art...ickens-Maggots ) (Whoa!! I just checked out the article to get the url - he has added a warning about doing this. I haven't had any problems with it, but some friends have had problems of botulism with scraps from the local co-op)

The new pullets: (about 30 birds - about 10-12 weeks old now)

* As above, except no maggot buckets in their run - I should make another maggot bucket for them!
* plus, grain mix in a higher protein ratio, ground and fed dry or mixed with the kefir

Two mothers raising broods: (chicks are very young right now - less than a week to 10 days)

* an enclosed "free-range" grassy area that gets moved every day
* Plus the sprouted grains, kefir, ground hi-protein mix (one hen accepts the dry mix, the other won't eat it and neither are the chicks!)
* And mashed hard-boiled egg, shell and all

The Sprouted grains contain the basic grain mix of corn, wheat and barley - about 6 parts, plus 1 part peas and 1 part sunflower seed
The high protein mix contains the basic grain mix of corn, wheat and barley - about 6 parts, 3 parts peas, and 1 part sunflower seeds
The mineral pre-mix contains about 3 parts kelp meal, 1 part Azomite, 1 part oyster shell, 3 parts dried ground eggshell, and 1/4 part Celtic sea salt - I sprinkle about a cup/day on the sprouted grains and leave some out free choice. If I have some available, I add ground kaolin (native chalk from the San Juan Ridge area) and basalt (also native - gray, clay-like rock that comes up in the water well drilling process). I also, use my herbs in the Cow Tonic recipe (attached) when there is extra and just add it in with the minerals. I' just use the herbs I can find - I've never had all of them.

See Harvey's articles for lots more ideas. I'm growing some of the grains, trees, etc. that he mentions: sorghum, amaranth and mulberry.

This method is labor intensive, for the time being, but, as my land improves and I get more areas that are rich in chicken food going, it should be easier. Let me know how your feeding progresses and what works for you.

[FarmerCathy]

Oh, and I'm going to use worms from my worm bins instead of maggots. I don't think I could do maggots.