Difference between Roman Catholic and Anglican Apostle's Creed

[mammal_mama]

Hi all!

I have been praying the Roman Catholic Rosary for a while, and just lately we've started going to an Episcopal Church, which has been a wonderful experience. So I've also started praying the Daily Office from the Book of Common Prayer --

And I've noticed that whereas the RC Apostle's Creed says Jesus was conceived by the Holy Spirit, the Anglican Apostle's Creed says he was conceived by the power of the Holy Spirit.

Are they both saying the same thing, or is there a difference?

Thanks for any and all responses!

[lilyka]

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[Viola]

Interesting, I don't know. I was googling it, because I was curious. I found one thing that said that it went out of the Catholic church but then came back and it was a version found in Germany and France. But I think the Protestant version came from the same place, so I don't know.

I found a text in Latin that says: qui conceptus est de Spiritu Sancto, natus ex Maria Virgine. I don't know if the RC church has the same version in Latin. Maybe it just is in how you translate that.

[CherryBomb]

I don't think it's significant. The Nicene Creed, which is the longer version that we say at Mass, says "by the power of the Holy Spirit, he was born of the Virgin Mary, and became man."

[mammal_mama]

Originally Posted by CherryBomb

I don't think it's significant. The Nicene Creed, which is the longer version that we say at Mass, says "by the power of the Holy Spirit, he was born of the Virgin Mary, and became man."

Yes, we just recited The Nicene Creed in children's chapel today.

I think Viola is probably right that it's the same meaning, just a slight translation difference.

Some other differences are that the Anglicans add to the end of the Lord's Prayer by saying, "For thine is the kindgdom and the power and the glory forver and ever amen," which I like best, so I always add that in when I pray the Catholic Rosary ...

And also the Anglicans leave out the "world without end" part in the Gloria prayer, but I like this prayer better the Catholic way, because to me the "world without end" part signifies how the gift of life just keeps on giving (and Jesus is the Life), so I think I'll add this part in when I pray it in the Anglican Daily Office.

Though I'm not sure the actual meaning of the "world without end" phrase as taught in the Catholic Church. Another reminder that I want to finish reading the Roman Catholic Catechism ...

[CherryBomb]

Originally Posted by mammal_mama

Some other differences are that the Anglicans add to the end of the Lord's Prayer by saying, "For thine is the kindgdom and the power and the glory forver and ever amen," which I like best, so I always add that in when I pray the Catholic Rosary ...

.

We do add that part in at Mass, though I'm not really sure why! We don't say it any other time.

I think the end of the Glory Be is just a prettier way of saying "for eternity"

[mammal_mama]

Originally Posted by CherryBomb

We do add that part in at Mass, though I'm not really sure why! We don't say it any other time.

I think the end of the Glory Be is just a prettier way of saying "for eternity"

That may be so! One of these days I think I'll take time to research the history of all these prayers.

[BMG580]

Originally Posted by CherryBomb

We do add that part in at Mass, though I'm not really sure why! We don't say it any other time.

It is my understanding that it is believed to be a later addition that was not original to the prayer so it is separated in the Catholic Mass. I'm not sure where I read/learned that though, so don't trust me 100% on this!

[lilyka]

Originally Posted by CherryBomb

We do add that part in at Mass, though I'm not really sure why! We don't say it any other time.

I think the end of the Glory Be is just a prettier way of saying "for eternity"

I am not Roman Catholic or Anglican but.... we sometimes add the "for thine is the kingdom and glory and the power and the glory" etc and sometimes don't. it is not part of the prayer officially. the preist says it in Liturgy or in prayers the Priest is leading but my prayer book instructs the layman not to say it in his daily prayers.

that would make sense in the context of you say it at mass but not while praying the rosery or other times.....i think.....

[Bluegoat]

Well, I do not know about tho modern American BCP, but in the Canadian one, the Lord's prayer is said twice. Once, at the beginning the priest says it alone (at least that's what the rubrics say though my local church does it communally - kind of a cowish communal is better attitude) and at that point they do not add the ending. Then, after communion, the whole thing is said together as a group.

[mammal_mama]

What do the letters BCP stand for? Oh, I know, Book of Common Prayer!

[CherryBomb]

Originally Posted by Charbeau

It is my understanding that it is believed to be a later addition that was not original to the prayer so it is separated in the Catholic Mass. I'm not sure where I read/learned that though, so don't trust me 100% on this!

Yeah, I know it was added on later (by Protestants? Not sure!), but I'm just not sure why we say it at Mass and no other time. I'll have to look into it and see if I can find out!

[xekomaya]

Originally Posted by CherryBomb

Yeah, I know it was added on later (by Protestants? Not sure!), but I'm just not sure why we say it at Mass and no other time. I'll have to look into it and see if I can find out!

modernism. The phrasing is in Matthew in the KJV, but not in the Catholic bibles, nothing even like it. It is only part of the Novus Ordo, added in '69 or '70.

As for the original question.. the current English translation of the Catholic Apostles Creed does actually include "by the power", as said in the N.O. Mass. It is a less accurate translation though of the Latin so in the New New Mass (Coming soon to a Catholic Parish near you ) they have gone back to the more accurate "conceived by the Holy Spirit". Of course prayers are largely passed down in families, so many people never added in the phrase after VII and won't have any trouble changing back

[lolar2]

Originally Posted by mammal_mama

Yes, we just recited The Nicene Creed in children's chapel today.

I think Viola is probably right that it's the same meaning, just a slight translation difference.

Some other differences are that the Anglicans add to the end of the Lord's Prayer by saying, "For thine is the kindgdom and the power and the glory forver and ever amen," which I like best, so I always add that in when I pray the Catholic Rosary ...

And also the Anglicans leave out the "world without end" part in the Gloria prayer, but I like this prayer better the Catholic way, because to me the "world without end" part signifies how the gift of life just keeps on giving (and Jesus is the Life), so I think I'll add this part in when I pray it in the Anglican Daily Office.

Though I'm not sure the actual meaning of the "world without end" phrase as taught in the Catholic Church. Another reminder that I want to finish reading the Roman Catholic Catechism ...

Some musical settings used in Anglican churches, retain the "World without end" line.

[Breathless Wonder]

Originally Posted by xekomaya

modernism. The phrasing is in Matthew in the KJV, but not in the Catholic bibles, nothing even like it. It is only part of the Novus Ordo, added in '69 or '70.

Ironically, I was raised Catholic, and distinctly remember that our church cut the last phrase in the '84-'85 catechism class. I always continued to say it anyway, which got me in trouble!

[The Duchess]

My understanding (I am no expert) is that the doxology - which is a phrase or song in praise to the Holy Trinity was added to the Lord's prayer in the early Mass. Another famous doxology is "Glory be to the Father, and to the Son and to The Holy Spirit, as it was in the beginning is now and ever shall be, world without end Amen" known to Catholics as the "Glory Be".

Before the advent of printing for the first 1500 years of church history the gospels and other church scriptures were copied by hand and it is thought that at some point the doxology was mistakenly added to the end of the Lord's Prayer in some written translations. When protestant churches used these copies as the basis for their printed editions they thought mistakenly that the doxology was in the gospel. So in protestant churches it has become part of their tradition while for Catholics it was always seen as an extra prayer added to the gospel praising God as part of the liturgy.

This is what I have picked up in reading over the years but I stand to be corrected.

[ThirdEyeMom]

Originally Posted by mammal_mama

Hi all! ...And I've noticed that whereas the RC Apostle's Creed says Jesus was conceived by the Holy Spirit, the Anglican Apostle's Creed says he was conceived by the power of the Holy Spirit.

Are they both saying the same thing, or is there a difference?

Thanks for any and all responses!

They mean the same thing. The Anglican version is less literal. Why not ask a priest the diff and let us know?