Do you think that by home educating...

[ann_of_loxley]

We can keep our children 'innocent' for much longer?

And what are your thoughts on that concept all together?

I am not that old - I am only 25. But boy have times changed! When I was younger, I was still happily playing with horses and dolls at the age of 13! (I nanny for a few children that go to school, one of them is a 7 year old girl and she already feels she is far 'too old' for that kind of stuff and its not just her - its all the other 6 and 7 year olds! lol)... What 13 year old do you know that is like that now? lmao... But then I thought, maybe by home educating we can keep our children innocent for longer. They are not as 'exposed' (to commercialism, peer pressure, outstanding outside the family values/morals/ etc)...and non of this I think is particulary a bad thing either (as in - I don't think its a bad thing they are not as 'exposed'...they get enough learning/exposure/experience of the world in a very well rounded way I am sure - but as they are more a part of family life, the 'family' can better pick/choose/limit/etc what kind of exposure they are getting iykwim - which I think is a very good thing and important thing that I feel is often lost when children go to school and part of the reason why we have decided to home educate)....

So what are your thoughts?

[SagMom]

Originally Posted by ann_of_loxley

We can keep our children 'innocent' for much longer?

There is something about "keeping kids innocent" that has always rubbed me the wrong way. Maybe it's because I equate it with preventing kids from having experiences, or sheltering them from the world. I'm all for not pushing things on a child who isn't ready, but I would not keep information from them in order to keep them young--it seems artificial and unfair to them.

They are not as 'exposed' (to commercialism, peer pressure, outstanding outside the family values/morals/ etc)...

I think this depends more on the family than on hsing. My kids have been exposed to all these things--
The world we live in has computers and tv and ads and politics etc. those aren't things I want to shelter my kids from. I want to answer their questions, I want them to be exposed to different ideas and I want them to be able to think things through and come to their own conclusions.

I DO see that my kids and the hsed kids I know seem to have closer-knit families. There is more of a focus on the value of family time -- or maybe they just have more time than their peers do.

I love that they have been able to make and foster those relationships even through the teen years, but the more I think about it, the more I think the time factor is the biggest thing.

[kathymuggle]

I think it depends on how you homeschool them.

It is possible to keep them sheltered longer - because you really can limit who they play with, what they are exposed to, etc.

I have not choosen to keep my children sheltered - they play with many schooled kids, watch a fair bit of TV, etc.

Their need for connection to the larger world has offset any possible negatives.

Moreover, as much as it is difficult sometimes, I like that my 13 yr old (for example) has peers who experiment with smoking, and swear non-stop. It gives me an opportunity to discuss such things with him - they really are growing opportunities!

I do like the space Hsing allows so that kids have room to be themsleves - be that a 13 yr old who plays with Barbies or not

Kathy

[lach]

I too was still playing with dolls at 13 too, but I would have DIED rather than admit it in public. You couldn't have tortured out of me that my American Girl dolls were anything more than "collectibles" I kept on the shelf. In talking to friends now, we all had the same experiences. So I don't know how much credence I'd put on a claim from one child about not playing with kids toys. I'm sure even when I was a kid, some kids were long done with toys long before I was.

I don't know, I find that argument kind of rubs me the wrong way too. Perhaps some of it is because it does go along with the steretype of the "unsocialized" homeschooled child who is emotionally stunted. Which I don't think is the case usually (there are probably some fringe cases, but I can't believe they wouldn't have been immature had they gone to public school, either!), but it does sort of raise my awareness of playing into a certain stereotype.

My kids are already weird in that they don't watch TV, but I'd do that no matter what school they went to. I just hate it, for the very reasons you describe. However, they're still young and I know I need to let go as they get older. I also recognize that they are learning all of their TV characters through other kids, and that's just a necessary evil of leaving the house that I accept

I think that kids mature in their interests at their own pace, and I'm not sure I believe that kids would be that much different at home and at school. It's one of the things that REALLY rubs me the wrong way about Waldorf: the idea that ignorance about the world is some ideal state. And obviously I'm not saying your child needs to know every mechanic of every unsavory adult practice out there, but I think that kids tell you when they're ready to move on from childhood trappings and that there's no set time.

I dunno, I want to homeschool so that my kids get the best education I can provide, not to keep them away from other kids.

[ikesmom]

I don't think it keeps them innocent longer unless you keep them away from other kids who are exposed to those other things. We have nephew and nieces that are trying to grow up too fast. I can't shut my kids off from anything ..it seeps in from everywhere. I think that once kids hit a certain age they just want to know too..my oldest dd is in the teen rebel years right now and siblings get to see the drama.

The key is to develop attachment to your kids. If you are nurturing and develop a trusting bond with them then you have more of a chance to influence them. They might still get in trouble or do some things , but that is just part of growing..the key is that they don't keep doing it or making dumb choices all their lives.

When I think about what I want my kids to learn..I think being a good parent is at the top. I want them to grow up and be able to take care of their kids..the schooly stuff is good to know but in the whole view of life I want them to be good people.

[WhaleinGaloshes]

I think spending as much time as possible with parents and family can do a lot to help kids develop emotional maturity and make good choices and build health self-images etc. etc. Which can be a very good thing. (I actually think this largely depends on the emotional health of one's family, on which speaking for myself the jury is still out, but that's another topic entirely )

But I don't really grant the premise that the world has fundamentally changed in the last 12 years (or the last 20 etc.) Sometimes it can seem that "the world is much different now" "kids are so different" but I think we need to step back and say "*we're* different!"

We're adults now. We're mothers. The world looks different, not only because we know more about the undesirable things that go on in the world (both because we are older and more globally aware and because the media has broadened in a generation) but also because we are watching our precious, uninitiated little offspring venture out into it.

I think, though, in the big picture, one's perspective on the world has changed far more from age 13 to age 25 than the actual world has changed.

[ann_of_loxley]

There is something about "keeping kids innocent" that has always rubbed me the wrong way. Maybe it's because I equate it with preventing kids from having experiences, or sheltering them from the world.

This phrase as never rubbed me the wrong way but I guess thats because I don't equate it with any of those things! lol - For me its not about 'sheltering' them or keeping them from experiences or even lying to them and preventing them from doing anything. I can see how many people would see such a phrase that way though - and I can see how that would be annoying to the home educator since we already get stigmatised with the whole 'socialisation' (or lack of) 'thing'!...

My son too has great curiosity in the word, watches tele, sees adverts, actually has more schooled friends than home-edded ones, etc etc.

and I'm not sure I believe that kids would be that much different at home and at school.

I don't know how to expain it - but I can tell you (and it doesn't have much to do with what I 'believe' or don't - its more a basic fact through observating), as a member of a large home education group (with a vareity of 'types' of home educating) as well as a member of an even larger non-home educated group (most of whoms children are in school now) - that there is a big difference (from behaviour, attitude, family values, etc) between the home eduacted children and those that go to school - big. At least it reassures our decision! lmao

What got me thinking about this (apart from my contrasting days as a nanny to schooled children and home educating my own child) - is this book that I picked up from the chairty shop (I read the first one - 'The Tao of Pooh') - this is 'The Te of Piglet' lol - and I will quote from it... (which, for me, explains better about what I mean keeping our children 'innocent' for longer)...

Next we come to the Educator Eeyores, whos idea of teaching is impress the maxium number of Unpleasant Things upon children at the minimum possible age. Mentally, emotionally, and physically, the human being is designed for a long childhood, followed by a short adolescence and then adult=hood - the state of responsible, self-reliant wholeness. What we see children experiencing now, however, is an ever-shorter childhood, followed by premature, prolonged adolescence from which ever fewer seem to be emerging. Rather than help children develop the abilities needed to overcome the difficulties immediately confronting them, in the natural order in which they ned to develop them

Your thoughts?

[RoundAbout]

Originally Posted by lach

I too was still playing with dolls at 13 too, but I would have DIED rather than admit it in public.

Definitely. I don't think I played much with toys by myself at this age, but I clearly remember still playing legos, barbies, and My Little Pony with the younger kids I babysat for and enjoying it. Heck, I still enjoy legos!

One thing I like about many of the homeschooled kids I've met is that they have a curious mix of both extreme maturity and child-like wonder. One minute they can hold their own in a conversation with an adult, and the next they are down on the floor playing with toys. I don't think its so much about sheltering or preserving innocence, but rather helping them be comfortable in their own skin. I do think this is a bit easier if you are already living outside the mainstream (based on my own experiences about the awfulness of peer pressure, teasing, and bullying in school), but its not a guarantee and its certainly possible for non-homeschooling families to achieve as well.

[FreeRangeMama]

I totally get what you are saying. I see it as preserving the wonder of childhood. There are so many pressures on kids to grow up too fast, to loose that innocent way to view the world. Peer pressure would make it difficult for children to stay in that imaginary world.

I do love how many of the homeschooled kids we know still bring their stuffed animals to the park to play. These are little boys who are between 6 and 10! You wouldn't see that with the schooled children around here. Most of our schooled friends are more interested in whatever the latest fad is on the playground. Usually based on the popular tv show or movie. Things that mine are completely unaware of.

I don't see this as sheltering kids, we are out in the larger world all the time. I do see it as allowing them the freedom from peer pressure. They can linger in this space until they are ready to move on without the worry of being teased for it.

I do also think that for us (and many of our friends) being mostly tv free plays a part as well. Their play is really quite innocent compared to a lot of other kids. I am sure as they get older there will be LOTS of different experiences and questions. They will eventually get that exposure, I just don't see why is has to be while they are SO young. (my oldest is only 8). I am okay with them maturing a little later, there is no need to grow up all at once.

I have no intentions of sheltering them from the outside world (we spend large chunks of our time in the outside world). It isn't about purposefully keeping them naive or innocent, but more of a natural progression. They will notice things when they are ready rather than have it pushed on them prematurely. If that fuels some weird homeschoolers stereotype than so be it!

[elizawill]

i don't know that my kids are more innocent, as they've been exposed to lots of stuff. plus, i let them buy many popular fad toys like bakugan, pokemon, etc. my kids look like any other kids. however, i absolutely believe my children have a lot less pressure and worries. i'm very aware of what they're exposed too, and i do feel that dh and i "shelter" them (for lack of a better word) from certain things they may otherwise have to deal with if we did not homeschool.

[LuxPerpetua]

Have you read Hold Onto Your Kids?

The author basically makes the assertion that children need to be vertically-oriented (meaning around lots of adults, especially parents) and less horizontally-oriented (meaning peers), and that one of the major issues in our culture today is that too many children are not completing the maturation process due to this peer orientation.

So, yes, I do think homeschooling will help a more normal maturation process, which I think also includes a full childhood.

[lach]

Originally Posted by WhaleinGaloshes

But I don't really grant the premise that the world has fundamentally changed in the last 12 years (or the last 20 etc.) Sometimes it can seem that "the world is much different now" "kids are so different" but I think we need to step back and say "*we're* different!"

We're adults now. We're mothers. The world looks different, not only because we know more about the undesirable things that go on in the world (both because we are older and more globally aware and because the media has broadened in a generation) but also because we are watching our precious, uninitiated little offspring venture out into it.

I think, though, in the big picture, one's perspective on the world has changed far more from age 13 to age 25 than the actual world has changed.

I think that this is really true. I'm a few years older than OP, and I know that in the 80's there was lots of stuff that made my parents wince! Most of it went completely over my head. I have a very clear memory of my mother saying something kind of nasty about a little girl who I was in 2nd grade with who was wearing a t-shirt that said Boy Toy (it was, after all, the mid-80's and the age of Madonna!). I think I thought it was cool, because it was a belly shirt and I wanted to wear a belly shirt* too but my mother never bought them for me. She asked if I even knew what that meant and I was totally at a loss. I remember thinking that maybe it was related to being a tomboy. I knew what that meant, because I liked reading old fashioned children's books and the main characters were always "tomboys."

Of course as a mother now I'm totally horrified that someone would allow their 2nd grader to wear that t shirt. But it's certainly nothing new, if a little girl was wearing it more than 20 years ago. And FWIW I think I would have wanted a belly shirt whether I had gone to school or not... it was the style all my Barbie dolls wore and that I saw on the street and on TV. It was a TOTALLY inappropriate style for a little girl, I certainly see that now... but it was the style in the larger culture, not just at my school.

*Do you remember those? They were kind of very loose, cropped t-shirts that were supposed to show your belly. They usually had a large neckline and were supposed to be off the shoulder. If you were a teenager, which this design was made for, you were supposed to show off your bra strap I think. Ahh, aren't we all so happy that the 80's are supposedly back in style?

[Callimom]

I think that the difference for my kids is that pop culture, consumer culture and peer pressure have far less of a hold on them than it potentially would if they were in school. That's not to say they don't have access to it because we have tv and they have school friends, nieighbourhood kids, cousins, teammates that they discuss those things with.

I do think my kids are more innocent (ie less worldly) than many of the schooled kids we come across but it isn't because we shelter them from information or experiences - far from it. I think it has more to do with the fact that we can meet them where they are, that they have safe space to develop a solid sense of self, and that their (broadly aged) peer group tends to be more accommodating to wider ranges in needs, abilities, interests, and maturity levels.

[LauraN]

My experience ( and my oldest child is only 7 so things can change) is that as homeschoolers my kids tend to take their cues from DH and me and not so much from their peers. When DS was in kindergarten he was much more aware of what the cool thing of the moment was. But as homeschoolers, the peer pressure is less prevalent. Our closest Homeschool friends are the ones who always get the new cool thing first. From Tony Hawk bikes to Zhu Zhu Pets to the in sneakers. My kids are quite innocent about it though and might notice, for instance, the shoes their friends have at the store, but then decide they liKe something else better. To me, it's more about allowing them to know their own minds, to know that their likes and dislikes are valid no matter what's cool.

[lauriem33]

Originally Posted by RoundAbout

I don't think its so much about sheltering or preserving innocence, but rather helping them be comfortable in their own skin.

It's something we had a very hard time doing when the kids were in PS. So much of the influence was coming from peers just because they were spending 35-40 hours a week with them & then coming home to more hours of homework. Family time, and therefore influence, was a small portion of their time during the school year. Ugh.... so happy we're homeschooling.

[shoefairy3]

I like that "preserving the wonder of childhood. Since going from ps to hs, my kids have started to play with toys i thought they had long grown out of. I am sure a lot of this has to do with the fact that we have little kids in the house. My DD is playing dollies and house. Something she never did before. i think it helps that they have a lot more time to just play and be themselves.

[alegna]

Originally Posted by SagMom

There is something about "keeping kids innocent" that has always rubbed me the wrong way.

This. I have no desire to shelter my kids or keep them innocent in any way. I actually would prefer that they have a *more* real-world view than their schooled counterparts.

-Angela

[CariOfOz]

Originally Posted by shoefairy3

I like that "preserving the wonder of childhood. Since going from ps to hs, my kids have started to play with toys i thought they had long grown out of. I am sure a lot of this has to do with the fact that we have little kids in the house. My DD is playing dollies and house. Something she never did before. i think it helps that they have a lot more time to just play and be themselves.

I like that phrase as well I've always thought of it as just encouraging my boys to be true to their own wishes instead of being pushed to grow up too fast (IMO) by the ridiculous lvls of peer pressure out there. They're definitely not sheltered, but they are free to play with what they want and how they want without fear that some other kid will call them a baby or sissy etc.

[FireWithin]

My 6.5 year old son brought his teddy bear and doll to a concert tonight where he would be seeing many homeschooled friends. Some of them are ones he had sleepovers with, which I think is the reasoning behind bringing his cuddlies. He felt no shame about what he carried around and I saw no kids giving him strange looks. That was nice for me.

[Momma Aimee]

subbing

when i do not have one asleep on me

but yes, THAT is totally part of why we plan to home school and why theo is not in pre-school.

Aimee