Can we speak frankly about older child adoption and love?

[just_lily]

I want to start by being very upfront and saying that I am in no way intending to offend anyone with my questions. This is a concern that both my DF and I have had, and I would really like the opportunity to hear from people who have been this before. I don't mean to imply anything about anyone's situation other than my own.

After Christmas, we will be pursuing domestic public adoption. We feel most called towards adopting a sibling group (this may change, of course, but this is what we are looking at now) so although that *may* include an infant or young toddler, it will definitely involve one or more older children as well. We have a 16mo bio daughter.

I know that it is a common fear of parents of only children that they will never love subsequent children as much as their first. Is this the same in adoption?

I feel that newborns are quite easy to fall in love with. But toddlers and older children come with tantrums, outbursts and behaviour issues that aren't always so loveable. And although I am going into this with the intention that I will love my adopted children as much as my daughter, I have to admit that I worry about this a lot.

I also run a home daycare, and this adds to my worries. I have some of my daycare kiddos 50 hours a week. Although I feel a lot of affection and care towards them, I don't love them. Not like my own daughter. I am not going to feel this way towards my adopted kids, am I?

So.. can we talk about this? When do you fall in love if you have adopted an older child? The moment you saw their picture, or did it take a while? Do you think it is different that adopting a newborn or having a biological child?

Am I just crazy?

[tiffani]

it's different for everyone, I think. There are a lot of resources in the adoption stickies at the top of the adoption forum that talk about older child adoption, and the reality that while some people feel quite strongly toward their children right off the bat, others take a good long while to really start to love the child, but it does usually happen at some point. We've had 3 referrals so far (an 18 month old girl, a 2.5 year old boy, and a 4 month old girl), and I've loved them all right away, as soon as I've seen their photos. This doesn't mean that when I actually meet the two we're bringing home and have them in my care full time that my feelings might not change and shift and start back at 'stranger-child' and need time to grow into love, but I have faith that it will happen at some point.

There is a big difference between caring for other people's children and *your own* children, even when they're not born from your body.

[Tigerchild]

Regardless of what you feel "called" to do, the truth of the matter is that even if you decide to answer that call, it isn't going to be easy, and life as you know it and experience it now WILL change.

You may have to sacrifice your child care business for a time so that you can devote your energy to your new children. You might not. You will have to sacrifice and give up the idea that you get to control your children's total environment--all of them. Not only will you not have had any control whatsoever in what any adopted children may have experienced prior, but you cannot control what that experience brings to your home and to your DD either. Siblings have their own independent relationships with each other that you may not control. You may have to sacrifice a more leisurely habituation to older children not being so cute (you would have gotten their eventually with your DD though, make no mistake). Because of your DD's age, and your desire for a sibling group, you may have to learn how to take a lot of "no"s until you receive a "yes." You may have to sacrifice the ideal of instant bonding (though to be really honest? Even if you were to give birth to more children you might have to sacrifice that too, sometimes it takes longer to connect with someone period, and that says nothing bad about you or them.).

You will have to deal with tangible grief, most likely, of your new children. You will have to deal with your own grief if/when they choose/are capable of sharing their prior journey with you. You will have to deal with "accolades" from others that probably will strike you as thinly veiled insults or ignorance.

I think with older kiddo adoption or special circumstance adoptions it involves a FAR greater sacrifice of illusions of control than most people seem to be aware of. You won't know how long it will take them to feel like yours. Maybe it will be instantaneous. Maybe it will not. Some may come before others. In addition to learning the extra logistics, you will probably have to deal with extra visibility (at a time when you might prefer privacy, like a babymoon, to really pour some time and energy into your children).

I don't think "crazy" has any relevance to the conversation. You might choose to really, truly look at this from a pragmatic angle. Take the "calling" right out of it. Determine what you can and cannot sacrifice or set aside to get there. Lots of people feel an emotional pull towards adoption, but frankly a far smaller percentage are capable of truly moving forward with it. "Feeling" a desire will only carry you so far. You really need to look at your life, your williness to tolerate risk above and beyond the usual, and whether you can truly provide what any individual sibling group really needs on a case by case basis. And keep in mind that over time things change. Perhaps you are not in a good place now to persue this. This does not mean that in a year or two or more that things will remain static. Far from it! Maybe something unexpected will come up and you may need to delay it. Maybe things will move so that even though you thought this was going to be a 4 year process to get ready, actually it's going to be less than a year.

No one is going to be able to give you a thumbs up or thumbs down on this, truly. You are a horrible fit for some sibling groups, I'm sure of it. I'm also sure that there is at least one that would be a good fit. There are no blanket statements and tidy checklists in adoption (or, as you know, in parenting in general).

If the thought is overwhelmingly stressful and worrisome to you, though, then maybe it's time to set it aside for a bit until you have a chance to wind down and think and discuss. I don't know about you, but I try never to start any kind of project or Big Lifechanging Deal at this time of year because frankly I am frazzled and distracted by the rapid fire holiday season and all the whirlwind of emotions it entails (might be I am just weird though).

[zinemama]

Have you read this?

http://parenting.blogs.nytimes.com/2...g-an-adoption/

There were a whole lot of issues going on in that story. And frankly, I found the comments to be even more interesting. Especially the woman who spoke honestly about not loving her adopted child.

I, too have bio children who I adore and an adopted child who I do not love. While I would/will never give him away and am a very good mom to him, he will nonetheless never know the kind of love my bio children know - and this haunts me every day.
I liken adoption to an arranged marriage - sometimes you get lucky and do fall in love - sometimes you don’t. You can do nothing about it either way - we all know you can’t force who you fall in love with.

I had never come across this perspective. I don't imagine most people want to share it.

[just_lily]

I don't know if it is just because I haven't had my morning coffee yet, but Tigerchild I find the entire tone of your post condescending and offensive.

Originally Posted by Tigerchild

Regardless of what you feel "called" to do, the truth of the matter is that even if you decide to answer that call, it isn't going to be easy, and life as you know it and experience it now WILL change.

Yes, I am very aware of that. You seem to be stuck on my use of the word "called." If I said I was drawn to sibling groups, would that make it better? And life ALWAYS changes when you add children, I am under no delusions here.

You may have to sacrifice your child care business for a time so that you can devote your energy to your new children. You might not.

I am not sure what this has to do with my original post, and it was not a question I was asking. But yes, I am aware of this also. At the very least I will have to scale way back because as per my licensing I can only care for six children at a time, of my own or others. Fortunately we live in a province that provides post-adoption support.

You will have to sacrifice and give up the idea that you get to control your children's total environment--all of them. Not only will you not have had any control whatsoever in what any adopted children may have experienced prior, but you cannot control what that experience brings to your home and to your DD either. Siblings have their own independent relationships with each other that you may not control.

Yes, I am aware of this as well.

You may have to sacrifice a more leisurely habituation to older children not being so cute (you would have gotten their eventually with your DD though, make no mistake).

It isn't about cute. And yes, my DD is already moving into the age of not-so-loveable behaviour from time to time. But I already have a well-bonded relationship from her. My concerns are about being able to establish a well-bonded loving relationship with an adopted child if/when they have behavioural issues. Again, it has nothing to do with cute. I am talking about children, not puppies.

Because of your DD's age, and your desire for a sibling group, you may have to learn how to take a lot of "no"s until you receive a "yes." You may have to sacrifice the ideal of instant bonding (though to be really honest? Even if you were to give birth to more children you might have to sacrifice that too, sometimes it takes longer to connect with someone period, and that says nothing bad about you or them.).

Again, yes, I am aware. I don't have an "ideal of instant bonding". That is what I wanted to talk about with people who have experience here.

You will have to deal with tangible grief, most likely, of your new children. You will have to deal with your own grief if/when they choose/are capable of sharing their prior journey with you. You will have to deal with "accolades" from others that probably will strike you as thinly veiled insults or ignorance.

I think with older kiddo adoption or special circumstance adoptions it involves a FAR greater sacrifice of illusions of control than most people seem to be aware of. You won't know how long it will take them to feel like yours. Maybe it will be instantaneous. Maybe it will not. Some may come before others. In addition to learning the extra logistics, you will probably have to deal with extra visibility (at a time when you might prefer privacy, like a babymoon, to really pour some time and energy into your children).

All things I am aware of, and nothing to do with my OP. But thanks.

I don't think "crazy" has any relevance to the conversation. You might choose to really, truly look at this from a pragmatic angle. Take the "calling" right out of it. Determine what you can and cannot sacrifice or set aside to get there. Lots of people feel an emotional pull towards adoption, but frankly a far smaller percentage are capable of truly moving forward with it. "Feeling" a desire will only carry you so far. You really need to look at your life, your williness to tolerate risk above and beyond the usual, and whether you can truly provide what any individual sibling group really needs on a case by case basis.

I was asking if I was crazy to even be having this worry. And again you are stuck on being "called" to do this. I have always, always wanted to grow my family through adoption *someday*. The calling part is that I feel that God is telling me that *someday* is now. I am a Christian, so I am sorry if this offends you, but it is how it is.

Otherwise, you are making a lot of assumptions here. How do you know that we haven't already done all of these evaluations and discussions? It has nothing to do with what I was asking about in my OP.

And keep in mind that over time things change. Perhaps you are not in a good place now to persue this. This does not mean that in a year or two or more that things will remain static. Far from it! Maybe something unexpected will come up and you may need to delay it. Maybe things will move so that even though you thought this was going to be a 4 year process to get ready, actually it's going to be less than a year.

Why do you feel like you are qualified to determine if this is a good time for our family to be adopting? The only information I gave in my OP is that I have a 16mo DD and I have a home daycare. That is a big stretch to assume that means we are in a bad place.

No one is going to be able to give you a thumbs up or thumbs down on this, truly. You are a horrible fit for some sibling groups, I'm sure of it. I'm also sure that there is at least one that would be a good fit. There are no blanket statements and tidy checklists in adoption (or, as you know, in parenting in general).

I am not looking for anyone to give me a thumbs up or thumbs down. I am looking for people to share their experiences about love and older children.

If the thought is overwhelmingly stressful and worrisome to you, though, then maybe it's time to set it aside for a bit until you have a chance to wind down and think and discuss. I don't know about you, but I try never to start any kind of project or Big Lifechanging Deal at this time of year because frankly I am frazzled and distracted by the rapid fire holiday season and all the whirlwind of emotions it entails (might be I am just weird though).

I have never said I was "overwhelmingly" stressed and worried. Yes, the establishment of a loving and bonded relationship is something that I have concerns about, and that is why I wish to hear from people who have walked this road before. I think it would be more concerning if a potential adopted parent DIDN'T think about this as an issue. We are taking time to think and discuss.

Also, in my OP I specifically said that this is something we will be moving on AFTER Christmas. We are taking this time to do said thinking and discussing (and learning) but aren't acting until the holidays are over.

I appreciate that you took the time to reply, but a lot of your advice is really misplaced.

[MommyKelly]

Originally Posted by just_lily

I don't know if it is just because I haven't had my morning coffee yet, but Tigerchild I find the entire tone of your post condescending and offensive.



I appreciate that you took the time to reply, but a lot of your advice is really misplaced.

Having BTDTm I think she is being realistic, and brutally honest. Fostering and adopting was nothing like we imagined. We also felt called, and are very devout Christians. I stil feel called sometimes, Dh says NO WAY due to what we have been through with older kids placed with us.

[Triciabn]

[QUOTE=just_lily;14680100]I don't know if it is just because I haven't had my morning coffee yet, but Tigerchild I find the entire tone of your post condescending and offensive.

I have both bio kids and an adopted sibling group... she is not being condescending or offensive...she was just giving you the real deal. We have been so blessed with how everyone meshed.... but we seem to be an exception and not the rule. Even with as well as everyone meshes... I can totally fully absolutly understand what Tiger was saying. Honestly I think having had so many kids helped our situation... I think having only one child would have not prepared me very much for the range of differences and "what is normal and what is adopted related".
I do love all my kids fiercly. But I knew from my own bio kid experience that when I didn't love my new children "as much" that was okay. I knew that when I wasn't bonded to different aspects of their personalty...because of my other kids.. I knew it was okay.
I had much better perspective on parenting because I wasn't a rookie.
Tricia

[Tigerchild]

Well, I generally don't like seeing myself refered to as offensive and condescending before I have my first diet coke of the day (yeah yeah, I know, how sad that I live in freakin' Seattle and hate coffee. :P).

It wasn't my intention to be offense or condescending, if you care about my intentions. You listed your circumstances and then asked if you were crazy to consider adoption. Well, no, I don't think that the consideration of adoption is mentally ill, no matter WHAT the circumstances generally (unless you said you wanted cheap labor or something really odious like that, which you didn't, so it's all good). How do I know that you haven't weighed all considerations and have made contigency plans? I confess, I don't. But how should I know if you did? Generally if people ask "Am I nuts?" in a non-sarcastic tone, I've noticed that they are worried because they are just looking at the surface or they're internalizing the stupid things that people say when they find out that you're adopting. Since your only question was if you were crazy to consider this, I suppose I felt I had license to talk about situations generally, considerations, and how I felt "crazy" did not come into things.

Yes, on the surface, by your own description, there are many things that are "less than ideal" for the adoption of a sibling group. But really, so what? Is anyone or any time ever ideal? It's not. I have seen many people get wrapped up in a calling (of various sorts, myself included) and then get bogged down in the anxiety when things seem to move in ways that are kind of intimidating, frightening, or involve a lot of change in ways that they didn't expect. That's why I said that the emotions and pull will only carry you so far, and it can be bracing for people when they run straight into the brick wall of pragmatic concerns while they're still awash in the emotion. Or, at least it was for me, and I wish someone had mentioned that to me, since I interpreted it as a failing on my part and that maybe I was stupid/nuts for even thinking that way in the first place.

Well, anyway. I just wanted you to know where I was coming from. I don't know if you are crazy or not, people ARE going to tell you you are at some point, you just let it roll and keep plugging.

[queenjane]

I have one bio child age 13, an adopted baby who will be two in Jan, that i've had since he was three weeks old, and a foster baby i *may* get to adopt, he is two weeks younger than my adopted son and i've had him since July.

For me, with both foster children i've had (a little girl i had for two months back in April went to relatives), there WAS a difference in how i felt toward them, and i how feel about my adopted and bio children, in terms of "love"/bonding. Its hard to say if its because of the uncertainty of foster care itself (not wanting to completely fall in love because the child may leave), or because the kids were older than infants when placed. I know with my adopted child, he is 100 percent "mine", i'm totally in love with him. With my foster son, we are getting there, but its taking alot longer. I would like to think that if i adopted him, my feelings will be stronger for him in six months than they are now, and that in a year they would be even stronger. I would like to think that in ten yrs i'll look back and wonder how i ever felt a difference at all.

So, i'd say it is probably a process that moves at a difference pace for different parents and children.

Beyond how much you will love or feel bonded to new kids, i would just be aware that if you are bringing older kids into your family with your single young toddler child...there may be some feelings of "mama bear" wanting to protect her when she gets hit, or pinched, or her toys taken away, even though it will all be pretty expected typical behavior in a sibling setting, you may see the new kids as very "big" and your child as very vulnerable, and you may go overboard in protecting her, or you might not.

Also, one thing i didnt expect is my own....well, grief is too strong a word, but perhaps sad feelings....at the losses my younger child has suffered at bringing in a new child...he has gained SO much as well, but we've lost alot in our ability to just hang out, the two of us, for him to explore the world at his own pace and not always having to have this same-age sibling nearby. So thats a challenge as well. I think, ultimately, if i get to adopt my dfs it will be a good thing for everyone, but it will be a different life path for us all as well, thats for sure.


A couple of things i've heard in terms of older child adoption is that committment is more important (for lack of a better word) than love...i'm sure these kids have had plenty of people "love" them, but many foster kids have had less committment from adults....and also to "fake it til you feel it"...you can SHOW love without necessarily feeling that "i'd jump in front of a bus for you" feeling all the time....

[mamarhu]

I have both bio and foster (soon to be adopted sib group) kids - and I totally remember that overwhelming feeling of love for #1. I also wondered how there could possibly be room in my heart to have 2 or 3, or currently 5, or maybe 7 or 9, times that. While I agree totally with what Tigerchild said above, I also understand your question was intended on a different level.

My love for each child is so different that it would be nice to have a different word for each. ElderSon is 27, has kids of his own, is a tough Army-guy, and yet I want to nurture and protect in a way I can't really describe.

BigGirl has seemed so independent even since birth, that even as I nursed her, I felt my love would have to be different. As she approaches young womanhood, I love her more everyday - she is developing into a person I would treasure as a friend, even if we weren't related.

YoungSon (bio also) was 6 weeks early, and still has some special needs, autism and whatever else, and yet I am closest to him of them all, in a way. I doubt many Moms have this tight a bond with their teenage boys.

LittleGirl joined the family at 6; she's 9 now. Our road has been rough, but for me it was love at 1st sight. I had asked for a boy, age 8-12, with developmental disabilities. I got a short-term, therapeutic placement of a smart little girl, with every psychiatric diagnosis you can imagine having to do with extreme abuse and neglect. Things were realy rough for awhile, as it was very difficult for the bios to accept much of her behavior. But she has pretty much settled into the family, and my love for her is absolute - different, but no less all-encompassing than for the bios.

Her bio brother, LittleGuy, 7, joined us last year. I fully admit I do not have the same feelings for him as the others. He has been here over 6 months, and I don't see much change. But that is due at least partly to his Reactive Attachment Disorder. It's pretty hard to have that overwhelming mama-love for someone who doesn't want to accept it. But I love him differently - he is charming and resilient, bright and gorgeous, and I will always be proud to call him my son. Is that love? I really don't know; it is surely different, but it feels all right. I think I am probably the best possible home for him, and that's the best I can offer.

My love for the next 2 siblings, the 5YO twin sisters of these 2, feels stronger in some ways than for this LittleGuy. I have wanted to adopt them as well, from the start. I am trying to rewrite my relationship with them to benevolent auntie, but really I have the "no one could possibly parent these kids as well as I can" feeling pretty strong. Probably not realistic - these 2 seem to have the most serious psychiatric conditions of all the sibs.

The next 2 are my grandbabies, who I cared for 1/2 of last year. They came to me at 2 months, and 2 years. You might think I would bond more closely with them - my blood relations (my son's wife was in rehab, and he couldn't manage alone), they came as babies, and there looked to be some chance I would raise them entirely. I absolutely adore infants; I wore and co-slept with them, and was able to fully imagine a future with them. But the love wasn't there. I can only explain the difference by saying that I cared for those babies as a way to love my grown son, not for themselves. Although that part might have come with time, it was a bit strange.

Anyway, I can see many reasons it might be a rough go to adopt a sibling group with a toddler and a daycare. But my experience is that the love will be there, or grow where it is needed. One bit of advice I have heard on that subject is that sometimes you have to "fake it till you make it".

All the best in your journey, whichever path you take.

[dogretro]

I fail to see where TigerChild was being condescending or offensive. She was asking you personal questions that you need to ask yourself, not making judgments about your family or personality. The agency is going to ask you WAY more personal and invasive questions AND expect you to write your answers to them down for your case study.

I cannot stress how highly I recommend the magazine Adoptive Families http://www.adoptivefamilies.com They publish many articles about older child adoptions & sibling adoptions, among tons of other great articles. They are also the ONLY parenting magazine to even TOUCH foster care & it's complexities, so that does make me only slightly biased

[tiffani]

Here in the adoption forum, people (myself included, at the beginning of our journey) often pop in and ask questions like the one you just asked, and without knowing where they actually are in the adoption journey, it's hard to know how to respond. Tigerchild took a lot of time to address your concerns, to address things she saw in your post that may be concerns you haven't thought of, and impart her general adoption wisdom, of which she has a boatload. I've never known her to be condescending or offensive, just honest. From the sound of your post, you're at the beginning of this journey, and there are many things you'll still learn -- a lot of them outlined by Tigerchild for you here. It also sounds like you've thought about many of the things Tigerchild mentioned, and that's great too, but 1) she had no way of knowing that and 2) don't shoot the messenger.

the adoption forum is generally a really supportive place (in my experience) so you don't really need to worry about condescension, and offensiveness would likely only show up in the ignorance of people posting who really aren't familiar with a lot of issues in adoption. assume the best here, and drink in the wisdom being offered by these experienced mamas -- often you come in with one question, and leave with many others answered!

[Sierra]

Originally Posted by MommyKelly

Having BTDTm I think she is being realistic, and brutally honest.

I read your post how it was intended from your description just_lilly, but before I saw your response to TigerChild's post, I was going to quote her and agree with her prior to posting my own experiences. She may have said things you already knew, but she wouldn't have known that you knew them and she wanted to make sure they were said because it is all really important stuff to reflect on from an angle of completely honest discernment.

I agree with those who said this is a very individual thing, and I think it also varies by specific parent and specific child.

My story is a little different from yours because we started out with older kidos (long term and short term foster placements...the longest term one having been presented to us as "for life," though our foster son decided later to move into a group home), and are now raising younger kidos without older kidos in our home.

It's probably important that I share that we *loved* parenting older kids, and plan to bring older kids into our home again in the distant future, but that is all now on hold because our experiences led us to believe there was a value in not exposing our younger ones to the older one's degree of woundeness. We also found that we personally were the *best* parents for our older kids when we could focus on them, and we felt we would fail everyone if we tried to parent the older and the younger together. That's just us, but it does come from hard-won experience.

Anyway, it is different with each kid, and it is different-- in my experience-- not having a child from the get go. Even with my daughter who came to us at six months, things were rough for a while. My wife bonded with her right away, but she had attachment issues and I found it very, very hard to get connected to her when she was rejecting me all the time. It took commitment. And work. And therapy, but the love has grown from both our parts and I truly adore being her mother now. There is actually something like a primal fear that I experienced as a mother who was struggling to bond. It's easy to say, "okay, so it may take some time...I can be patient." But when you are in the midst of it, well, you are (at least in my experience), in for *something else.* It can be a gut-wrenching, uncomfortable, anxiety-producing experience like no other. It certainly freaked me the heck out. And its worse when some ignorant social worker is working the case, and you know they won't ever get it, and so you can't ever slip up and let them know because you know it will cause all kinds of issues that would only make things worse.

With my eldest foster son, we definitely loved him, not from day one, but from a couple weeks in, but it was a complicated love, and he definitely did not love us back. I still don't know if he is capable of real loving...but I know for darn sure that it isn't going to happen for him without a ton of work. Maybe another good question is to ask yourself if you are able to love someone dearly and not only be not loved back, but perhaps at times even hated.

Then again, if you are talking about a two year old, that may be different because two to me is still a very young child, not an "older child." (Still, do consider that toddler adoption is *extremely* unique...in my experience, kids are way more set up to bond in a newborn or a preschool or even elementary school age adoption...toddlers as a whole have a very rough time and need lots of very specialized, intensive parenting. You should definitely check out the book _Toddler Adoption: The Weaver's Craft_ if there is any chance a toddler adoption is in your future.)

Originally Posted by queenjane

For me, with both foster children i've had (a little girl i had for two months back in April went to relatives), there WAS a difference in how i felt toward them, and i how feel about my adopted and bio children, in terms of "love"/bonding. Its hard to say if its because of the uncertainty of foster care itself (not wanting to completely fall in love because the child may leave), or because the kids were older than infants when placed. I know with my adopted child, he is 100 percent "mine", i'm totally in love with him. With my foster son, we are getting there, but its taking alot longer. I would like to think that if i adopted him, my feelings will be stronger for him in six months than they are now, and that in a year they would be even stronger. I would like to think that in ten yrs i'll look back and wonder how i ever felt a difference at all.

Yes. With dd, it took nearly three years to complete her adoption, and I do think this contributed to the length of time and the amount of work it took on both our parts to fall most fully in love with one another.

(I must admit that right now my ds is having some really annoying 4-year old behavior and I am "feeling the love" much more for my dd right now LOL. Of course I love them both totally and fully, but what I really mean is that I am just feeling the more "squishy" type of love right now for dd.)

Also, one thing i didnt expect is my own....well, grief is too strong a word, but perhaps sad feelings....at the losses my younger child has suffered at bringing in a new child...he has gained SO much as well, but we've lost alot in our ability to just hang out, the two of us, for him to explore the world at his own pace and not always having to have this same-age sibling nearby. So thats a challenge as well. I think, ultimately, if i get to adopt my dfs it will be a good thing for everyone, but it will be a different life path for us all as well, thats for sure.

This was true for us as well in relationship to dd and ds, though I've often wondered if that is more how close in age they are. If the difference was more like 3, or 4, or 5 years, I probably wouldn't feel that to such a degree.

A couple of things i've heard in terms of older child adoption is that committment is more important (for lack of a better word) than love...i'm sure these kids have had plenty of people "love" them, but many foster kids have had less committment from adults....and also to "fake it til you feel it"...you can SHOW love without necessarily feeling that "i'd jump in front of a bus for you" feeling all the time....

True.

Originally Posted by mamarhu

My love for each child is so different that it would be nice to have a different word for each.

Well put.

[mama_miiteg]

hmm, when I read Tigerchild's post, I immediately thought "this person knows a lot about this topic" and also "this person seems to be annoyed with the OP" I'm not involved in this community, and so likely I'm missing some of the norms about how posters interact in this specific subforum, but as an outside observer, this was my impression. It was tone, not content.

Interesting questions. Shrug.

[sisteeesmama]

Originally Posted by mama_miiteg

hmm, when I read Tigerchild's post, I immediately thought "this person knows a lot about this topic" and also "this person seems to be annoyed with the OP" I'm not involved in this community, and so likely I'm missing some of the norms about how posters interact in this specific subforum, but as an outside observer, this was my impression. It was tone, not content.

I do read this forum a lot. I love the parts where we are coming together to learn and help others and ask questions. But I, too, noticed a level of annoyed-ness and slight condescension which I attribute to weariness or knowing more than you did and not loving all of it. I could be wrong but this is what I have always assumed.
I'm gonna shrug here too.

[Tigerchild]

Well, there WASN'T condescending intent behind it. As I am saying AGAIN.

I give up.

I was responding frankly. I own that my reading comprehension was not the best (I was responding to the "older child" portion and the "Am I crazy" portion primarily, instead of the love part). But jeez, I never called ANYONE names. I never made a personal judgement against the OP. And I said that crazy ain't part of things, there were ways that it could work and ways that one could rearrange and that *perhaps even that would not be necessary*.

I admit I'm a huge bag of FAIL, doubly so because I was distinctly NOT annoyed. And I'm still not annoyed at the OP, because obviously the failure in communication was mine.

[RedOakMomma]

Tigerchild, I agree with the person that said you had a BTDT tone...if it came off as snarky, it might be because the "called to" term so often has reeeeeeeeally bad attitudes attached to it. OP, you might not have known that, but "called to" adopt situations are often looked at very critically. Tigerchild wouldn't be the only one here to raise an eyebrow, or to maybe probe your intentions...she's just the one who did it first. Welcome to the wonderful world of adoption language. And yes, it does matter.

Anywho...

I think it's wise that you're probing your feelings about this now. I went into it far too full of roses and optimism..."instalove" and all that. The truth is that our daughter, who we brought home at almost 10 months, has a personality that grates on my nerves. Always has. From the first day she was home. She is just in-your-face, loud, and snotty a lot of the time. She's buckets of amazing, too, but some of her personality characteristics are like oil to my water. Not fun.

So the truth is, it's taken a lot of time to love. I beat myself up about that for a long while, but honesty feels so much better so pfffft to what I'm "supposed" to say, yk? I'd say I didn't start to have loving, maternal feelings toward her for at least the first six months, and she's still (almost 18 months after joining our family) the child that frazzles my patience first. But yes, I love her. It's just something I've really had to work at, and that was a totally new experience for me.

I think it's good to be honest about it, though. There's a lot of shaming in the adoption community, thankfully not on this wonderful board , about admitting anything wrong on the adoptive parent side. (I think we're supposed to be perfect or something.) The truth seems to be that some people fall in love right away, some people gradually and easily, some people really have to work at it, and for some it never happens. That last category is pretty rare, I think.

If you find you don't like your emotional relationship with your child, there are things you can do. Bonding and attachment, often not of the AP sort so don't confuse the two, are tricky business in adoption, and the responsibility doesn't all fall on the child's attachment. We didn't see an attachment therapist ourselves, but we sure did discuss the matter with our friends who HAD seen an attachment therapist and look for ideas there. I also found the a4everFamily.org site really helpful.

Some days you can be the adult and march forward confidently. Some days you can't. It's no fun to "fake it 'til you make it" with a child and love, but you can do it.

Bravo for looking into this, and please try to read better intentions into the BTDT moms and adoptees on this board. There is so much to learn, and everyone tries really hard to help newbies along the way.

[lovebeingamomma]

Tigerchild...

If you helped no one and offended everyone (chuckle), you blessed ME with your post. I'm at the beginning and what you wrote spoke to me so much, and is helping me practically look at my adoption journey, feelings set aside, because I too feel "called to" adoption. So thank you And don't "give up", your intention is good and how you write is helpful, just maybe not to the OP

[sisteeesmama]

[QUOTE=RedOakMomma;14690978]Tigerchild, I agree with the person that said you had a BTDT tone...if it came off as snarky, it might be because the "called to" term so often has reeeeeeeeally bad attitudes attached to it. OP, you might not have known that, but "called to" adopt situations are often looked at very critically. Tigerchild wouldn't be the only one here to raise an eyebrow, or to maybe probe your intentions...she's just the one who did it first. Welcome to the wonderful world of adoption language. And yes, it does matter.QUOTE]

While it may be important to you, or others on this board, it states in the forum guidelines for this board that not everyone will know or even could know all of the terms that are taboo. And we are supposed to assume that they don't and be nice and understanding of that so that everyone feels comfortable and safe to ask their questions.

[tiffani]

Originally Posted by sisteeesmama

While it may be important to you, or others on this board, it states in the forum guidelines for this board that not everyone will know or even could know all of the terms that are taboo. And we are supposed to assume that they don't and be nice and understanding of that so that everyone feels comfortable and safe to ask their questions.

I think maybe it would help if you went back and read Tigerchild's post as she intended it, with nice, understanding explanations for the OP of what she saw as potentially troublesome aspects of what the OP was asking about. If the OP (or anyone who posts here) is looking for sunshine and roses all the time, no matter what they *ask advice* for, then they should probably look elsewhere. This board is unique, I think (and I admit that I've never actually spent much time on any other adoption boards, as MDC always gives me what I need ) in that the primary consideration is ALWAYS the child involved in the adoption, secondly the birthparent, and lastly the adoptive parent. as it should be.

If you read in someone's post a hint of snarkiness and you ask them about it, and they say "it wasn't my intention to be offensive or condescending" then you (and everyone else) should let it go. I think the fact that she spent a good 20 minutes writing out a very well-thought out post would indicate that she is coming from a place of wanting to help, not to offend or hurt anyone's feelings. Certainly it's up to all of us who are posting to try to get our point across without snark or condescension, but it's every bit as much the responsibility of the reader to assume good intentions, and know that everyone here is just trying to help.

and just to clarify, in case anyone is wondering how being "called to" adoption might not be viewed favorably, there are a large number of religious folks who are "called to" adopt, and do so because it is God's will, and the adoptees are expected to be the grateful orphan, held up as the parent's example of their godliness, etc. Or worse, to try to build up the numbers of a particular church or religion. there are other examples, but those are the most icky for me, personally.