german shepherd mommies-i have MANY q's!

[nycmom18]

we have decided to get a german shepherd-my husband grew up with them and i had a german shepherd when i was a baby, so we both have a distinct love for them. i am beginning to research about them and love them even more! but realize they are very intelligent and deserve/require a lot from their owner. which is why i want to learn a lot before we get him/her. my main concerns are our timid cat, young children, and protection for our family and home. here are my q's:


1. good with cats?
2. good with young children?
3. how to find a good breeder, and what to look for in a pup/breeder?
4. what types of q's to ask breeder?
5. difference between male and female(we have a female cat-would that make a difference?)
6. what are common reasons you take them to the vet aside from regular check-up?
7. how often do they need to go to the groomer?
8. how many hours of exercise a day?
9. good recommendations for training/info books?

that's all i can think of for now! i appreciate any info anyone is able to supply! TIA!

[CvilleC]

1. good with cats?

If you get a dog from working lines, it will probably want to chase it (and anything else that moves, including kids, your broom, etc!) Definitely a trainable situation though, and probably not too hard at an early stage. That can be one of your first little training projects! I'm not sure if you've found this in your GSD research yet, but there are American lines and German lines. There are both physical and energy/prey drive differences.

2. good with young children?

Yep! Although there can always be the exception.

3. how to find a good breeder, and what to look for in a pup/breeder? What types of q's to ask breeder?

AKC lists breeders, I also looked at breeders.net. You can also ask a vet/dog trainer in town if they know of someone. I did lots of internet searching. You can go on training websites and see if people can recommend breeders as well.

I did not want someone who was boasted a lot about the dog size or was pumping out dogs with crazy amounts of prey drive. I wanted an average sized dog without the sloping backs that cause hip problems. Someone training dogs that are going primarily to the police force or doing Shutzund work would probably have too much dog energy for me! Also, just a few litters a year--they do it for the love of the dog, not to make a gobs of money.

I liked websites that showed the dogs being with the family. I also wanted to know the pedigrees of the dogs, not b/c mine was going to be a show dog, but it demonstrated the breeder was serious about responsible breeding. You can look at pedigrees as well on an online data base. Ask about the hip ratings of the parents. You can ask to meet the mom, and its great if the dad is there as well. The breeder should be willing to let you visit the premise (unless there are baby pups--they might ask you to wait to prevent the spread of Parvo), and it should be clean with happy dogs. They should have some type of contract (some are basic while others are quite extensive) and ask YOU questions as well to make sure their dogs are going to good homes.

Ask the trainer for books recs, food, etc. to see how knowledgeable they are of dogs. They may also be able to provide references from previous buyers.

5. difference between male and female(we have a female cat-would that make a difference?)

Oh, people debate this all the time. I just like girls, I have one friend who swears males are mellower. I don't know if matters in terms of your cat.

6. what are common reasons you take them to the vet aside from regular check-up?

GSDs have sensitive stomachs, so she is prone to diarrhea. I've taken a stool sample more than once. Nothing else besides that. Like all pure bred dogs, GSDs can have health issues.

7. how often do they need to go to the groomer?

Never. I do her nails my own, although they're tricky b/c they're black. Bathe her every now and then, and brush frequently. GSDs are mighty shedders, beware. I'm saving up for a roomba just to help cope with the daily shedding.

8. how many hours of exercise a day?

Try to get at least an hour, but I'm admittedly bad about this. We do lot of training for fun--agility, tricks, etc.

9. good recommendations for training/info books?

For puppies, I like Ian Dunbar. I don't think Cesar Milan is that helpful. Patricia McDonnell for specific issues. Monks of New Skete had lots of practical information as well, although I like Dunbar better for obedience training.

Hope that helps! Send pictures of your puppy. I am biased, but I really think they're the cutest puppies around!

[nycmom18]

thank you for your response! i dont have the pup yet because we are just starting our research, but the pics i see are the cutest! i will post when we do get one finally!

[mamallama]

I'm really glad to see your list of questions. It sounds like you're taking the time to think through the responsibility of having a dog.

I love German Shepherds (I have two.) Honestly, I don't think the breed is a good choice for most people--esp. as a "starter" dog.

The shedding is unholy. Grooming helps, but you have to 1-be a decent housekeeper, and 2-not be an uptight housekeeper. You will have great tumbleweeds of dog hair in your home, on your clothes, and occasionally, in your food. Housekeeping with a GSD is a zen practice. You clean it all up, you turn around, and there it is again. Impermanence writ large.

The exercise requirement is a deal breaker for most people. A yard, a fenced yard, is not going to cut it. A puppy GSD, and a GSD up to about three years (or beyond) requires a minimum of an hour of hard exercise every day. Baby sick? You have the flu? It's been 40 degrees and raining for a week? Tough. Get the dog out, or be prepared for the dog to work out his excess energy in ways you won't like--barking, pacing, romping in the house, harassing the cat, chewing (shoes, kitchen cabinets, the couch, makes no difference....)

The vet bills can be astronomical, and as a breed, GSD's come with a whole host of issues.

You can somewhat mitigate the potential for busting the bank by going with a breeder who does genetic testing, but there's always something. Bloat is common in GSDs, and while you can take steps to protect against it, if your number comes up, you'll be dropping nearly a grand at the vet's office on a moment's notice.

You mention wanting a dog for protective reasons. This is the scariest issue of all. Dogs who are protective are a serious liability--esp. with little kids. My dogs protect my kids. While this is a good thing (sort of,) my dogs also protect my kids from babysitters, from adults other than dh and myself, and from other kids. My dogs have never bitten anyone, but I would not rule out the possibility. I have coping strategies for babysitters (and rambunctious friends,) but heaven help me (or rather, help my dog,) should my system fail and my dogs are present when mayhem happens on the babysitters watch.

I hate to be all "Debbie Downer," but while puppies are cute and all, the responsibility of having a dog is for the duration of the dog's life. If you read all this and think "yeah, I can do that," then great. I'm truly glad for you, and in six months when your puppy is ready, I'll go ga-ga over the pictures with you.

[lifeguard]

I have a GSD/Collie mix but she is predominantly GSD. I can only answer some of your questions:

1. good with cats? Depends on how tolerant the cat is. Our girl loves to chase & sniff the cats. One of our cats took years to get used to it & now they are fine together. The other cat lets the dog maul him all the time.

2. good with young children? YES!

6. what are common reasons you take them to the vet aside from regular check-up? Like pp said - the stomach issues. We also had some anxiety problems with our girl - but we attribute a lot of that to what happened with her before we got her (she was a rescue).

7. how often do they need to go to the groomer? About once a year - usually 'cause she rolled in something nasty or got sprayed by a skunk! Along this lines though - she is a perpetual shedder. It is the ONE thing that would make me seriously consider whether or not to get a GSD again.

8. how many hours of exercise a day? As much as you can give them. It is rare that I out exercise my girl.

[Dingletwitz]

I have a 10 year old male GSD from a German (polizei) line (no slope in the back--it goes horizontal, no squat-like appearance, 120#)

1. good with cats? He loves them. too much. and loves the litter box also or any other place a cat may leave a "snack". In the younger years the dog and cat chased each other around and around and around the house, sometimes all night long. But they also had cuddle time too.
2. good with young children? Once I retrained a bit, but in the early years I kept him away from kids since he tended to match them in temperament and uh, herded them or got too excited and barky (scary bark, even when friendlylike) around them and I could never find training ground with little ones that I felt safe in, so I had to do a lot of dominance work when he was an old man with my dd.....I think it was easier because his puppy years were long gone and he had more patience. GSDs are very "talky" so it can be noisy with little ones napping.
3. how to find a good breeder, and what to look for in a pup/breeder? I found a farmer who was not really a breeder primarily as all the breeders were advertising things I just didn't want in a dog. I chose my dog because he was the most fearless and curious of the litter--and he came right to me.
4. what types of q's to ask breeder? I'd want the parents on site to take a look at--other than that they'd be individual questions for you as to the type of the breed you're looking for.
5. difference between male and female(we have a female cat-would that make a difference?) I haven't really noticed much difference, although at the dog park it seems most of the males are the "police officers" with the other dogs.
6. what are common reasons you take them to the vet aside from regular check-up? Mine has a chronic illness--addison's disease, so up until his dx we spent a whole lot of money....overall (including all care) he has been an average of $500-600 per month. And of course needs special foods for his tricky tummy, also very common in GSDs. We got yeasty ears sometimes, and I have the nails trimmed as I've never been successful with that particular activity with him.
7. how often do they need to go to the groomer? I take him when he gets reeky--like once every 3-6 months. It depends on what you do with the dog--mine likes to go in the lake, and so during some summers there were more groomer visits, and he also attacked sprinklers and hoses (the water) as his own personal fun time. We use a furminator at home and that cuts down considerably on the hair, but it's a full vacuum every two days.
8. how many hours of exercise a day? During puppy years (until age 4) a LOT. a whole lot. He could hang at the dog park running for three hours, which is pretty much what I did for him for about two years. It was a big commitment but there were no kids then. most GSDs are very jump-up-y in the early years also---it's like their greeting, and in our case resulted in some training since I had no handle on it early on. I have friends who do an hour of biking a day with their GSDs, but it's never enough to wipe them out. In the later years, I've been able to get away with an hour or so of ball throwing with some rests in there as adequate exercise, as it was a PITA to take the buggy and dog--he just didn't get enough energy out going that slow.
9. good recommendations for training/info books? Mine did well with training classes--kept both our minds busy...while he was too big to compete in agility he loved it, did very very well with obedience, tracking, etc. I chose no schutzhund since my family's previously trained Schutzhund dog sometimes picked up ambiguous hand signals the family gave her and well, did training with people who didn't know they were doing it and took folks down at times. As silly as it may seem, I learned a lot from watching the dog whisperer--mostly in understanding dominance. And I also learned that trainers are, uh, not always knowledgeable about GSDs. And the gentle leader was crap with him.

I wouldn't go with a Shepherd for a first dog. I just wouldn't. They have about the longest "puppy" span of all dogs. They have to be closely supervised for longer in their youth than other dogs. They take such a highly trained owner (and I really wasn't one, and in the early days needed a lot more training myself than I got). I was too soft, too nice, too quiet with him--allowed too much in behavior, didn't know anything about dominance, just wanted a nice companion (which he really really is, and I'm grateful he was patient with me until I learned how to be a good owner). It has taken a lot of work to get the dog safe around dd, and it has paid off, but for the next dog I'm going to make some decisions differently about breed--not that I don't love GSDs, because I do! But I think next time a bit mellower for our family will be a priority. They tend towards dominance, especially with other dogs around. I've seen many highly trained humans with GSDs who defaulted to a dominant state naturally. They are extremely smart, so one false move--like giving a cookie when he so cutely asks for one---ends up in hell for you---because it only takes once for them to learn all kinds of naughty stuff. Mine learned how to work doorknobs, cabinets, the refrigerator, the accordian closet (for the shoes), you name it. They learn it. Diarrhea messes are common, even when they're not sickly, so I invested in a carpet cleaner for the rare times I've had carpet.

Some lifestyle changes I made since having a GSD that I would have never guessed before having him:
Took out all the carpet, never had fabric furniture (only leather), did a lot more laundry, got a bigger car, changed all the bed linen to things that don't attract hair, put in a 6-foot fence and a doggy door (in the older years), had a heck of a time finding rentals when we moved (considered a bully breed here). The pinch collar was a life saver, especially once I learned how to use it. Good luck in your choices! I hope you find a perfect family friend! If you're set on a GSD, maybe a tested adult would be a good match as your "training" dog.

[nycmom18]

thank you everyone for your honesty! i am continuing to do my research and "thinking it all out" before making any decision. i am learning everything you have all posted, yet i am still not scared away, just very interested and excited. i feel like im doing more "pre-learning" for a dog than when i got pregnant! is that bad?? more posts and opinions please! in the end, i want to make sure that if we do get a gsd or any dog for that matter, that we are able to provide him/her the best quality life possible. thanks again!

[puddleduck]

Originally Posted by nycmom18

1. good with cats?
I got my GSD when my cats were only a few months old, they LOVE each other, the GSD does get a bit excited and seems to swallow their heads in his mouth, but her has never hurt them, they roll on the floor in front of him and rub their heads on his nose.
2. good with young children?
My GSD is now about 18 months old, he loves the children and will follow them round the garden, the thing is he is VERY big, and can easily knock them down, and he paws people (a GSD trait) and has scratched them a few times, so i make sure they are always supervised and the dogs (we have a retriever too) have their own room and we have gates to keep them out of the main area, so the children can play without being trodden on.
3. how to find a good breeder, and what to look for in a pup/breeder?
I'm in the UK, i just looked for healthy pups, well know breeder who was registered, dogs were hip tested, both parents could be seen, testimonials from people who have brought from them before. I took my sons to meet the adult dogs, to see how they interacted, as lots of children can be put off by their size.
4. what types of q's to ask breeder?
5. difference between male and female(we have a female cat-would that make a difference?) we have a male gsd and a female retriever, i have always prefered the look of male dogs, longer noses and tend to be bigger animals, in theory male dogs will stray more than female, but my retriever is far more likely to wander off than the GSD who can not bare to leave us
6. what are common reasons you take them to the vet aside from regular check-up? ours has only been to the vet once to get a single parvo vaccine. he has had upset tummies which tend to clear themselves in a few days on rice and fish and has had a lame leg a few times (because he is soo bouncy) but a few days rest and he is good as new.
7. how often do they need to go to the groomer? I don't take him to a groomer, i brush his coat every other day and road walk him when his nails are looking long
8. how many hours of exercise a day? when they are puppies you are only supposed to walk them for 5 minutes for every month, so a 3 month old puppy should only be taken out for 15 minutes at a time, over 12 months an hour +. In the summer our GSD gets an hour in the morning, mostly off lead running in fields and 20 minutes in the evening road walking and training. In the winter just the morning walk and some ball playing in the garden
9. good recommendations for training/info books?
Go to training classes, your dog will benefit from learning how to behave around other dogs and you will learn how to control him properly, there is nothing worse than a large dog that isn't trained.

that's all i can think of for now! i appreciate any info anyone is able to supply! TIA!

Also, they are quite expensive to feed, we feed dry food in the am and raw meat in the evening which he is thriving on. We have pet insurance to cover the unexpected vets bills or if he got out and caused an accident.

They are very loyal dogs, if i'm walking with him and the children and the boys run off he freaks out and wants to be with them. Also if my other dogs goes up to talk to another dog and he is on the lead he gets really upset.
You need to be in charge from the beginning and set the rules, don't let that cute puppy sit on your lap on the sofa unless you want the giant dog to do it. don't let them get away with anything and teach them to let you out the door first. They are well worth the effort you put in and are wonderful, very intelligent dogs. From what i've heard they don't do very well being left by themselves for long periods of time and will rip up your house.

For a first dog...... not sure how old are your dc's. Our retriever is much easier, smaller, and perfect around children. Also if you go away without the dog, people will happily look after a mellow retiriver, no one wants to look after a GSD

[CvilleC]

My GSD isn't a wanderer as well. When we go hiking with her off-leash, her pattern is to run-run-run, step to the side of the trail, turn to make sure we are still right behind her. We also went camping, and she stayed right by our sides. My friend thought it was strange that she was in dog heaven, but she didn't take off to explore. She's definitely a velcro dog.

That attachment can cause problems, however.....I had to really work with her when she was a puppy on being okay with being alone. That's when I think you get the GSD problems--if they're separated from their owners for long stretches of time, you have an unhappy dog.

[nycmom18]

again-thank you everyone! here's a new question:

if you go on vacation to where you cant take your gsd, would you be totally against putting him/her in a boarding place?

i only ask this because, while we dont take vacations often, we will definitely be traveling halfway across country once a year to visit my husbands family. i believe i heard that because of gsd loyalty and pack mentality, that they dont do very well in a kennel. i've already asked my father in advance if he would be willing to be the "babysitter" as he had a gsd before and loves them. he's still contemplating... and how long of road trips would you allow your dog, any dog for that matter, to be in a car?

i'm now looking into the realistic aspects of dog owning aside from the training and such!

also-when you say they cost a lot-whats your average month budget for your gsd?

[CvilleC]

For boarding, I think that depends on the temperament of the dog. Some laid back dogs would probably be fine with it, and there are just fine kennels out there. I luckily have dog owning/loving friends who have been able to take her in, and there are a lot of small services in town if I have to pay. I had a woman who works at a doggy day care stay at my house for a night--she asked if it would be okay to take Maya on a hike and training walks--yes please! There are also people on farms out in the country here that will take dogs in. Just like finding the right breeder, finding a place for your dog to stay requires some research. But I haven't found the Maya being a GSD has made dog sitting difficult. People actually love her goofy personality and playful manner.

I grew up with a GSD and we left her at home with a sitter when we traveled across the country. One summer we decided to take her along. She was a great traveler, and we couldn't believe we hadn't tried it out sooner. They really do love being with their people.

My monthly budget involves her food which I pay a good amount for. I figure high quality food pays off in the end to prevent teeth problems, allergies, etc. She gets monthly flea and heart worm medicine (can't remember the exact cost). Elective costs include dog classes (usually around $100 for a 6 week course) and day care (ranges from $25-30 here for a day).

Initial costs are plenty--you get the puppy, all the puppy stuff, and vet visits. Spaying/neutering. Microchip. SPCA does a low cost spay, the internet can be a great place to bargain hunt. Pet insurance is another thing to consider. I actually thought about this today--Maya got a free period of time for pet insurance through AKC, but I don't have anything now. It seems worth it as vet bills can get really high really fast.

[mamallama]

I would expect to pay no less than $2000 for a puppy from a reputable breeder. You can find puppies in the paper for much less, but check out what the pp's have said about Addison's disease (also Cushings Disease, displaystic hips, etc)--genetic health testing is a must, for ethical reasons (which I won't go into) but also for maximizing health/minimizing ongoing costs over your dog's lifetime.

I used to think I couldn't afford a well-bred puppy...until I started paying the vet bills on rescues. Yikes.

I have two dogs. For one dog, heartworm preventative and flea preventative run about $30/month. Yearly vet (well visits) about $200/year. Food $60/month (I feed lowest priced kibble my dogs tolerate--you could spend much more, esp if your dog has a finicky digestive system.)

Last year I spent about $2500 at the vet (on one dog) on incidental stuff. Anal gland abscess (three times,) yeasty ears, heartworm treatment (she was a rescue, totally not my fault.)

I wish I had a good dog sitter, but as one of my dogs has a "strong sense of self" (haha) and I don't trust her with just anyone, I use a boarding kennel. It's $30/night. Second dog is half off, for a total of $45/night of every trip my family takes. Bummer.

I don't travel with my dogs. I'm not opposed to it, but the places we go just aren't dog friendly. (I'm laughing my head off at the thought of my dogs in my in-law's house)

[nycmom18]

cvillec and mamallama-thanks for the input on cost! you all have been so helpful, i really appreciate it! i just spoke with my uncle who has two dogs and he says they always have someone stay at their house to sit while they go on vaca-i thought that was a great idea!

i have only done some light research on breeders in our area and the highest priced was at 1500-that cant mean they're bad though, right? others were around 1000. they were up to standards and all that stuff as well...

[Dingletwitz]

I bought mine for $500, and he really has been a stellar animal, aside from the medical issues.
His operating expenses (minus the medical and the training in the old days) are about $60/mo..he eats avoderm, since other brands get his fur dry and cause tummy issues, but I think that's more breed standard than related to medical. Petsmart grooms him for $30, which I think is a TOTAL bargain given the condition of my bathroom when I've tried it myself.
Boarding was always my preference. He loved it, like started talking in the car before we even got there (maybe something else about shepherds--they have an internal GPS--doesn't matter which route you take to the dog park, etc, the alarm will go off a minute before you get there). I have paid 20-40/day depending on level of posh, and they always have extras like filled kongs, walks, time in the dog daycare, etc. I could go on vacation and not worry about a thing.
He did well in a kennel, but I also crated him until he made in through a night easily and pottying was established as a puppy. Then he slept in my bed for several years until I woke up and learned about dominance....now he's a floor-boy. Traveling across country would be a nightmare....mine doesn't like the road for long hauls so there is a stop every hour or so. Totally reminds me of road trips with nursing lo's.

[Ola_]

I think you will find that a lot of the costs vary by location. The price of dog food may not be that different, but I'll bet that training classes, vet costs, grooming, and boarding can vary dramatically! Around here for example a 6 week training class is in the $220 range (nothing special, just a basic class).

When looking for a breeder I don't think you should limit yourself to your local area. A good breeder is an investment in good health and temperament - two things that I wouldn't compromize on with a GSD.

[CvilleC]

I agree with Ola--you might have to expand your search range for breeders. The only downside if you go too far out is that it might make it difficult to see the premises before buying the puppy. If you can't get to the breeder's site beforehand, I would definitely get references and make sure they understand what you are looking for in a puppy to help you pick out the right companion for your family.

I think I paid $800 for Maya...maybe a little less? I saw a breeder's website one time explain the costs of breeding and everything that goes into puppies. I think that most people probably barely, if at all, make a profit if they've taken good care of their dogs during the process.

Another good point is how one dog was a good candidate for a kennel b/c of how he was raised. That's something to consider when raising a puppy--what do I want to be able to do with this dog? I didn't purposefully plan it, but I take Maya for a car ride just about every day. She's a good little passenger, so I can go on road trips with her. Had I thought about the convenience of kennels, I might have done things to prepare her for that as a baby pup.

[*Aimee*]

I paid 1500 dollars for a pet quality German Shepherd from working lines and got completely screwed by the breeder. This is someone who had been breeding police dogs for 30 years AND who DH had bought his childhood puppy from. He ended up being off in the head, completely unusable for Shutzhund and the breeder refused to give us our money back or take the dog back and I have since found out he's done this to a few other people.

I would ask for references of clients if I were doing it again.

[lifeguard]

Our GSD mix does not kennel well - but she was a rescue & we figure she was left for extended periods in a kennel or enclosure. As a result we have to have a housesitter for her when we travel or bring her along. She also has had anxiety issues which just makes trying to kennel her much worse.