help with picking up please

[windorabug]

my dd is just 3 & I feel like she should be able to pick up her toys before moving on to something else. Am I nuts?
We are having some major power struggles (mostly me) about this issue right now & I just made her sit in the other room (by yelling at her ) while I cleaned up the gigantic mess in the living room. I am not impressed at all with my behavior & need suggestions as to what I should be doing when MY needs are not being met in a relationship with a 3 year old.
Is it even age appropriate for her to be able to understand that she needs to clean up her own messes?
I am pretty angry right now & I do not like to feel this way about my dd - who is so sweet & loving.
Help please

[Minarai]

I don't know if this qualifies as GD, but here's what I've read:
If your DD won't pick up her toys, take them and hide them somewhere, then have her pay you a fee to get them back or if she REALLY sets you off, burn them (with or without her watching) or give them away to the Salvation Army or Goodwill.

[Limabean1975]

Do try to let this one go. Model picking up...ask her to pick up 1 or 2 specific things...reduce the amount of toys so it does not get so out of hand, etc.
A big mess of toys IS overwhelming - if it's overwhelming to you, it's an impossible mountain to her.
Start small.

[Limabean1975]

P.S. I am not too into punishments & rewards, but I do twist logic to my advantage sometimes - eg "If we can get all these little cars and blocks into their baskets, there will be room on the rug to put up your play tent for a while!" Yesterday, he pushed the toys off the rug and said "Ok, there's room!" I countered "They need to be in the baskets so I'm not tripping over them while assembling the tent." He still balked a little...then I told the danged truth: "I need the mental space and clarity of a clear space to be motivated to get the tent out of the basement and assemble it." It totally worked. Ha!

[NeivaKai]

Originally Posted by Limabean1975

P.S. I am not too into punishments & rewards, but I do twist logic to my advantage sometimes - eg "If we can get all these little cars and blocks into their baskets, there will be room on the rug to put up your play tent for a while!" Yesterday, he pushed the toys off the rug and said "Ok, there's room!" I countered "They need to be in the baskets so I'm not tripping over them while assembling the tent." He still balked a little...then I told the danged truth: "I need the mental space and clarity of a clear space to be motivated to get the tent out of the basement and assemble it." It totally worked. Ha!

They really can identify truth, and I find my 2.5 ds responds to it most of all.

My ds responds to putting everything in their homes, singing songs, and I have to do it with him. He wont put everything away, but it works when we do it together.

[kiwiva]

I don't think you are nuts, but I don't think a 3 yo is capable of picking up the giant mess she's made before moving on to something else. I seem to have a LOT of experience with this lately!

I find that if the mess gets too big it just makes for too much chaotic energy for DD so we both clean up totally then begin again. I do try to not let it get there tho. I try to make picking up not a big deal (though I do have my moments of freaking out bc the mess is too great!). "Oh let's put these away before we take that out" and I help her help me pick up. Really a lot of it is me. But I do model picking up after myself and we often discuss the rules about picking up, everything needs to be put away eventually. I try really hard not to make it a dreaded job and we never battle about it.

Totally NOT worth the power struggle. I'd avoid it. If you hand her a toy or a basket and ask for specific help it goes much more easily. "Let's put the blocks in here" or "Can you put this in the other room," suggestions like that. Sometimes DD says no but then I just keep suggesting different things until she helps somehow and once she gets started she will usually continue to pick up with me until it's done. Seriously sometimes the mess is overwhelming for me, so it doesn't seem reasonable to tell DD simply "Clean up that room."

[lonegirl]

Originally Posted by Minarai

I don't know if this qualifies as GD, but here's what I've read:
If your DD won't pick up her toys, take them and hide them somewhere, then have her pay you a fee to get them back or if she REALLY sets you off, burn them (with or without her watching) or give them away to the Salvation Army or Goodwill.

Really? Burn them? OMG would you do this? I certainly wouldn't.

I think it isn't asking too much to have a 3 y/o clean up his or her toys. A new toy or activity cannot be started before the other one is cleaned up. If she doesn't want to clean up...well no new activity...play with what is out.

Making it a game can sometimes help...who can pick up the most things the fastest!!

[hedgehogs4]

My 3 year old is not capable of picking up big messes alone. He will help with lots of encouragement and he can pick up a few things. He knows it annoys me so occasionally he "makes a big mess" and dumps everything on the floor to test limits and we deal with that - but I try very very hard to avoid a power struggle.

I'd like to add that I have lots of memories of my very angry mother doing very angry cleaning. I know I have cleaning aversions and bad feelings about cleaning because of it.

[Bulkswife]

The thing that has worked best for us with my 3yo is to encourage him to be part of a team. So we ALL help each other by picking up the mess. My DS LOVES to participate in group activities, so when I turn cleaning up into a group activity and encourage teamwork, he's very quick to get the job done!

[rhianna813]

What I have done that works well for toddler/preschool aged kids is to make clean up a game. I will say: I only want you to pick up ONE toy but you have to guess which one it is. Kinda like iSpy. Or you can ONLY pick up the blue toys or the round toys. Soon they are back for more of the game.

I also make a list of 5 toys at a time and let them check them off the list themselves. And while playing these games I toss in a “your choice!” option where they get to pick the next toy they clean up. It’s hilarious how excited my son gets when it’s his turn to decide what to clean. Especially when 10 mins earlier he was refusing to pick up any toys.

Letting DS race the toys back to his room or pile them onto his scooter to transport seems to help the process.

HTH,

Rhianna

[meemee]

your needs absolutely need to be met.

but your needs must come from a place of understanding.

why do you want a neat uncluttered environment?

why do you want your little girl to follow everything you say.

remember she is your teacher, your guide. follow her lead sometimes and you will be amazed.

dont follow society. dont worry about being THAT mom. it stops you from having fun.

[crittersmum]

rhianna813, loved the game ideas!

As for whether it's reasonable developmentally: DD goes to a Montessori daycare a few mornings a week and I know that the kids are taught about a "work cycle." You take the toy off the shelf, play with it and then put it back. I think one of the tricks is that you have to a specific, delineated space for each toy, not the chaos that is our toy shelves.

As the PP said, I have read that if you tell kids to "Clean up that mess!" they just can't take it in. Break it into specifics -- "Could you please put your trucks into that basket" -- and they're more able.

[cappuccinosmom]

It's absolutely age-appropriate to be able to pick up (or at least help with) the mess one makes.

I don't know how one would deal with it after it's become a power struggle though. Ours start helping with clean up as soon as they start helping make the mess. Even a mobile under-one year old can get the concept of picking up a toy and throwing it into a box, and at that age they *love* throwing things in boxes, at least mine did. Yesterday during playtime our lego box got dumped all over the living room floor, and my 2.5 and 4.5 yo did the majority of the clean up (they made the mess). I got a broom and pushed as many legos as I could into a pile for them, but they did the picking up.

I will say what does help a lot is making it a game. My toddler especially gets excited when I use words like "attack" and "catch" and make it a competition. ("How fast can you catch those legos? Can you THROW them into the box? Wow, that was a good throw!!!!"). With the older ones, it's a competition, and I tell them to call me when they're ready for me to "inspect" their work. With big messes, or if they're having trouble staying on task, I work together with them.

[GoBecGo]

I find that my DD (3.5) CANNOT pick up a mess by herself (though she is PLENTY good at making said mess....) but if i say "can you please help mama pick this up?" i can sit on the floor ad pick up like 3 items and she'll do the rest, it's the enormity of doing a task alone that scuppers her, and i really suffer from that myself.

Also children learn what they live and i am typing this and NOT folding the laundry...

[GuildJenn]

Originally Posted by hedgehogs4

My 3 year old is not capable of picking up big messes alone. He will help with lots of encouragement and he can pick up a few things. He knows it annoys me so occasionally he "makes a big mess" and dumps everything on the floor to test limits and we deal with that - but I try very very hard to avoid a power struggle.

I'd like to add that I have lots of memories of my very angry mother doing very angry cleaning. I know I have cleaning aversions and bad feelings about cleaning because of it.

Me too on the angry bit, and it makes it hard because then those bad feelings can feed into our parenting.

OP - here's what's worked for us (not 100%, but 80% - I don't aim for perfection)

- toys have homes, and space around the homes, and the homes are labelled and grouped, so we have a basket of cars, a basket of dinosaurs, etc. This is so key for us, because it's important for my son to know that they're not vanishing forever, and the times that we've let an area get crammed, it makes it hard for little hands and minds to cope. For us it seems to work best if the baskets are on open shelves so that again, the sense for my son is that his stuff is present.

- I'm not a fan of the big toy box because I find it's chaotic, and I think kids feel like all their toys are lost in it so they get more upset about moving them from the floor, where they can see them, to the storage.

- we do however have "closet toys" (in bins) that we rotate so that not ALL the toys are out ALL the time. We rotate them about once a month together; normally they take a month off and we don't play with them, but if someone's sick or has a genius idea, of course they're still available.

- we also have a "stray items" basket in every room (yes, I have helped the economy through basket buying ) so that toys that have homes in other rooms have somewhere to go temporarily - I find if I ask my son to take a toy to a different room, sometimes that leads to a struggle.

- we pick up at the same time every day so that it's a routine, not a "surprise demand." On days we're home we tidy up before each meal with a last "sweep" through the house before bed; on daycare days we do a pretty non-demanding quick tidy before bed. I would also love to tidy up before going somewhere, but I've found that for my particular child it just makes transitions too hard.

- we do it together as a game like so many great suggestions here. (Which I got from here!)

- if my child refuses absolutely to do it for whatever reason one day, I do it with "uncheer" - that is, not angrily or punitively (err. usually.) but I do mildly comment that I wish I had help and I do it quietly. It's amazing how just the mere fact of my silence has power to get across that he should be helping. Most of the time he then sulkily joins in. I don't get fussed about his attitude when he does (as long as there's no actual throwing, etc.); the fact that he's joined in is enough.

- I admit that I am the one who tidies up the "stray toys" basket, usually at night. I do one room/basket a night, so it's not a big deal. When my son's older I hope he'll help with this too.

- sometimes we pick one thing to leave out. This small act of rebellion (or continuity of play) goes a long way.

[windorabug]

Thank you for your great advice.

I need a clean house to keep myself sane (literally) so we have baskets for each type of toy as a pp suggested & they are down on the floor in her play area (I haven't had the money to build shelves since we moved)

DD has always been helpful so this is new to me & felt like she was pushing limits rather than actually not wanting to help.

meemee - thank you esp.

[webjefita]

my dd is just 3 & I feel like she should be able to pick up her toys before moving on to something else. Am I nuts?

Didn't read the other replies.

My approach to this is, whenever I think someone or something "should" be doing something, how does that make me feel? It's really my "should" thinking about them that is making me upset.

Now, practically, 3 or around 3 yo IMO "can" pick up but they don't do it reliably. It's just not on their importance radar.

I want to teach my children to "love order" as Montessori says, and I can't accomplish that by shaming or coercing them into it. Just as I want to teach them to "love reading," I would never force, cajole, or shame them into or out of it.

So I model picking up by either: doing it cheerfully, inviting them, saying how we'll have more room for our next activity when we put these away, leaving it all until the end of the day, or making a game out of it. Yesterday my 3yo and 6yo PICKED UP THE WHOLE HOUSE because they transformed into "Cleaning machines" aka Wall-E!! LOL.

Sometimes when I really start feeling overwhelmed, I go through the toys at night (once very few months) and store some of them away in boxes, the ones that really driving me crazy. Less toys, less mess, they actually play with them more, everyone wins. Here's something that inspired me:

Inner Freedome Feels Good

Think of it as a process... it will come in due time. Just as crawling, walking, talking... I think if she is resisting, it's related to your resistance. JMHO. Make it a pleasurable activity, and she will want to join you. There may be some resistance on her part for some time.... let it melt away and take the long view. Hugs, good luck!

[windorabug]

Thank you all for your posts - it seems that the not picking up is more than just an overwhelming mess it is strictly power.
She has been telling me to " NO - YOU pick it up!" or "YOU GO do it NOW"
which I am aware is a reflection of how I speak to her on occasion. But my buttons are being pushed to there limits with this right now & it is infuriating.
I allow many many choices in her day & most days revolve around what she wants to be doing. I feel like I can not let her speak to me like that because it will only get worse.
I also think some horrible switch was turned on the day she turned 3. And it's all for me - yay.

[Bookworm?]

You've gotten some great suggestions. I just wanted to mention using a timer. You can say in 3 min it's time to pick up and then set the timer. Or if she wants to get out something else you can say we have to clean this up first do you think we can do it in 5 min? Then set the timer and start cleaning. We rush around and say hurry! before the timer goes off! Sometimes I have to give a choice, should we set the timer for 5 min or do you think we can get it done in 3? Obviously you might have to do 7 or 10 mins. We usually beat the timer and sit and act worn out until it goes off. Alternatively when the timer goes off and we haven't completely finished I let the rest go and say good enough. Mind you, during all of these I have to give intsruction, quickly take all these dolls back to their bin, hurry put these books on the shelf. If my 3 yo refuses to help I just keep going and say oh I hope I can beat the timer by myself, I wish I had some help. I usually get some.
For the last year my 3.75 yo has been a hoarder or we say she's a packrat. She'll create these piles or setups of totally random things. Toys mixed in with household items. She has some kind of idea what she's doing but to me it appears there is no method to the madness. There's no way she could get all that stuff put back where is goes. Dh always says I should make them put one thing away before they get anything else out. That's fine when they're playing wooden blocks and then want to move on to puzzles, but most of the time my kids don't play that way. I don't always know where playing with one thing/group of things ended and the next began. So we just usually pick up once a day late in the afternoon or before supper.

[hibiscus mum]

We make a game out of it and do it together. i think i may have read this suggestion on MDC, actually. We tell DD that we have to put the toys away in the treasure chest so the pirate won't get them (and DH will yell "ARRRRR!" or "Shiver me timbers!" like a pirate from the other room). It makes DD laugh and we get it done quickly that way. She thinks it's hilarious.