Delaying formal education??

[bobandjess99]

So...I have been really influenced by the writing of Dr. Moore, especially the parts about waiting until age 8 or beyond for formal education. On one hand, it seems neat, but n the other hand, I'm not finding much actual support for this. even amongst most homeschoolers, they start at age 5, or even before, doing "home preschool" and stuff like that. But i also wonder if not doing academics would be wrong and dd would be missing out?

We pulled her from Montessori. She just turned 5. She can do simple addition, and can read the first few BOB books, and everything below that skill-wise in reading and math, etc. She loves doing workbooks and flash cards. i know..but she loves them. Should i keep pushing her interest in reading and math, or lay off? Right now, we have 1 activity scheduled per day, either a play group, class(swimming and gymnastics), story hour, library trip, store trip, etc and the rest just free play time.

I'm starting to feel like we're not doing "enough" but yet at the same time, I also feel like we shoudl be waiting to push academics.
How do you reconcile this?

[MamaMonica]

Welcome to homeschooling! I go with the child rather than a philosophy. Some kids want academics early and thrive on them, others need more time before they are interested. One of mine was reading chapter books at five (because she wanted to), the other couldn't read at all, he just knew his letter sounds and had no interest in reading.

[greenthumb3]

From what I recall of reading The Successful Homeschool Family Handbook was that according to the Moore formula, academics were not necessarily discouraged before age 8, but that it was not focused on until age 8. (a subtle difference, but i think important if someone is interested in learning to read/ do math, etc, as most children are!)

So if you want to continue with some of the Moore's ideas, you could continue to support your daughters interests, whether that include some worksheets and other "academic" type things, and also bringing in things like work and service to balance it out. I think their ideas were focused on the balance aspect of homeschooling, rather than pushing academics only, but that's my take on it.

[kgianforti]

Originally Posted by MamaMonica

I go with the child rather than a philosophy. Some kids want academics early and thrive on them

I have "one of those"!! DD is an academic nut and has been really excelling. She is eager, ready and fully capable so I go along with it. (actually I recently REDUCED the number of days we go to "school" from 5 down to 3!!)

One note though, even if I wanted to wait until 8, I couldn't because my state regulations require me to report when dd is 6 years old. They also have a list of required courses she needs to take beginning in Kindergarten. You should check out your state regulations too. I do live in a "strict" state.

[elizawill]

Originally Posted by greenthumb3

From what I recall of reading The Successful Homeschool Family Handbook was that according to the Moore formula, academics were not necessarily discouraged before age 8, but that it was not focused on until age 8. (a subtle difference, but i think important if someone is interested in learning to read/ do math, etc, as most children are!)

this is well said. we begin academics before age 8, it is not a focus at all (but not discouraged) until they would be school age though, which has been closer to 6 for my kids.

OP, i would follow your child's lead, and if she enjoys workbooks or what have you - provide those things for her.

[bobandjess99]

Thanks guys!! I think we'll continue to do some stuff without pushing it.

Oh, and just for clarity, my state doesn't require homeschooling to start until age 7, and even then there are no requirements about what to teach, and no reporting or testing or anything...it's a great homeschool state!

[kgianforti]

Originally Posted by bobandjess99

Oh, and just for clarity, my state doesn't require homeschooling to start until age 7, and even then there are no requirements about what to teach, and no reporting or testing or anything...it's a great homeschool state!

Wow!! We have to report, keep attendance, test and they tell us the stuff we have to teach!!

[Ravin]

In AZ, you have to file your affidavit at age 6, but can file to delay formal instruction until age 8 if you want.

What I would probably do in your case is, rather than setting a formal schedule for academics, stick those worksheets, flashcards, manipulatives, etc. on the toy shelves, and when your DD pulls them out wanting to use them, go ahead. This is pretty much what we did through K; now we still do this, on top of a basic minimum of stuff I try to get done each week.

[Lillian J]

Originally Posted by bobandjess99

She just turned 5. She can do simple addition, and can read the first few BOB books, and everything below that skill-wise in reading and math, etc. She loves doing workbooks and flash cards. i know..but she loves them. Should i keep pushing her interest in reading and math, or lay off? Right now, we have 1 activity scheduled per day, either a play group, class(swimming and gymnastics), story hour, library trip, store trip, etc and the rest just free play time.

I think the operative word here is "push." If she enjoys workbooks and flash cards, there's no reason not to provide them - but there's also no reason to push them nor to give them any sort of special status among the other things she enjoys playing with.

It really doesn't really matter whether you find much in the way of support for a philosophy you've explored on your own and felt drawn to - you've done your own research and thinking, and your feelings on the subject are certainly at least as valid as theirs are. And you can come here for support - there are plenty of us who are very supportive of the "Better Late Than Early" philosophy. The Moores' work is based on research - and, as you know, the Moores also felt that age appropriate contributions of work and service are important - it's not as if waiting till later years to begin studies is about neglecting a child.

I can't figure out why so many people these days are so concerned with getting children into studies so young - what, exactly, is it that they expect to gain by that? A child is still not going to be ready to read or tackle the more important material until she's old enough, mature enough, ready enough - and it simply doesn't take long to the cover the basics once the time is right. There are so many wonderful and important things for a young child to experience, play about, explore, think about, and learn about - and most of them don't happen to require reading. Reading is great, reading is essential - but not for a child that age. And learning simple things that lead up to mathematical studies is a natural part of an active life - there's absolutely no reason to begin formal math studies so young.

I'm going to paste here (once again) some things that I've put in other posts:

I always think of Grant Colfax when I hear concerns like this. He's the son of David and Micki Colfax, authors of Homeschooling for Excellence, which they wrote after he was admitted to Harvard directly from homeschooling on their homestead and goat farm. He didn't learn to read until he was 9 - could have been almost 10, for all I know - but late enough that they had started to wonder if there might be a problem. But then he suddenly learned to read. He not only got into Harvard, but graduated on the Dean's List from the medical school. Last I heard a few years ago, he was working as the directing AIDS Research for the city of San Francisco with an Adjunct Professorship at the University of California at San Francisco, and was testing vaccines for AIDS.

I have a friend who read voraciously to her two children from the time they were tiny - their favorite thing was to pile into bed together for good books. The daughter went to school, and she had a very hard time learning to read - they tried lots of things, but there was only frustration until she was around 9, and all of a sudden it just clicked. She went on to be a star high school student, got into a good college with a merit scholarship, and she's now graduated with honors and is in grad school and helping a professor with research.

My own son wasn't taught how to read till he was almost seven, and then it was only because he was about to go into a little 1st grade class where the others would already be reading 3 letter words. He wasn't reading books for pleasure till he was 12 (when he started reading voraciously) - up till then, he used to read non-fiction books for information, but not pleasure (except, of course, for Calvin & Hobbes, etc). When he took his SAT, he scored near perfect on the verbal part - he was actually a bit annoyed at having missed anything at all. That grew from all the reading I did aloud for him before he started reading voraciously on his own, as well as from the researching he'd done on the Internet - and from who knows where else...

Again - reading and math are wonderful and essential parts of our lives, but there's no advantage in getting a young child started studying them unless the child is the one initiating the process, in which case there's no reason to discourage it. But to push it or be anxious about it is simply not a realistic way to expend energy. Lillian

[craft_media_hero]

There's so much learning that can happen without books and worksheets!

If you feel like it's best to delay formal academics, that doesn't mean that she can't be practicing her math and language skills for a long time before getting to the "real" school stuff.

Montessori is a great way to provide zero-pressure stimulation. I have found that having lots of manipulatives helps my daughter a lot (who is not necessarily a "kinesthetic" learner, I just think that at this age concrete understanding is where it's at). So having the wooden puzzles for geography and cuisenaire rod games out for play....visiting botanical gardens and art museums, writing letters to gramma, etc. all are going to help her keep practicing her skills without "pushing" it.

Honestly, I tend to agree with at least delaying kindergarten.....because of personal experience. Now my dd is 6 and in first, but had I known better at the time, I would've had her wait a year for K and just let her play and practice letters and such at home. She is doing fine with the first grade stuff, but I still feel like waiting would've benefited her.

[greenthumb3]

To share our experience, my sons are 7, 5 and 2.

Our 7 and 5 year old have been talking about addition lately. If they ask me a question, I answer it. If they want to know more, I pull out a notebook and show them how. I might also pull out a fun book off the shelf, like a book about math rhymes with funny pictures. There are no math lessons or formal instruction happening, but when they show an interest, I respond accordingly, and I may even find a game on the computer for them to try, but mostly I leave it alone and let it be their interest, and not try to create more out of it (based on my experience with them so far, they like to have it be their "own" discovery and having Mom "take over" takes the fun out of it).

This is their practice, learning how they learn best and coming to the knowledge in their own way and time. They are setting the stage now for future learning adventures! I can just feel it.

If I pulled out E.D. Hirsch's "What Every Kindergartner/First Grader Should Know" (I do have these), what my boys have been learning about math just by asking questions, making observations, and being curious fits right into what Hirsch suggests a child of their ages should know. After doing this a time or two, any concerns I might have had rise to the surface go away and I don't even take that peek any more b/c I can see that they are learning.

It makes me excited for when they actually begin more formal, academic type studies (which, I imagine they will do, at some point). Such as sitting down at the computer or in front of a book or attend a class and just absorb the info. b/c they are truly interested and engaged out of an inner drive.

I am excited for where their minds, curiosity and inner drive will take them! I really believe waiting and not pushing academics is setting the perfect stage for them to just explode into their own version of learning when they hit those stages later on.

Try not to worry about your DD getting "behind" by not pushing academics before age 8. The more you see how much she learns naturally, the more confident you'll grow in the way she is learning.

[Lillian J]

I was looking through the links in my page on preschool/kindergarten just now and came across one I'd forgotten about. This is a fascinating article by a behavioral and Developmental Pediatrician - Teaching Our Children to Read, Write, and Spell. She does support the Waldorf educational philosophy, but she describes physiological processes in her reasoning. Lillian

[onyxravnos]

like the others said: go with what your dc is enjoying .

I'm a waldorf person but ds LOVES doing alphabet activities and a few other more 'offical' homeschool stuff. works for me. I do a lot of the waldorf things and try to keep a good deal of crafty art stuff going but who am i to argue if all he wants to do is his letters?

[naturegirl]

That is A GREAT article Lillian!

I am a pediatric chiropractor with a keen interest in neurological development and this article is spot on! I would also add that having children adjusted to help regulate their nervous system and allow proper development is extremely helpful, especially with kids who had traumatic births, didn't crawl and/or experienced falls or accidents. I agree with the author 110%!

My son, who turned 5 this summer, is doing a lot of physical learning this year. Tumbling class, ice skating, bowling, soccer, bike riding, jump roping, etc. All the things to strengthen his proprioception and neurological development.

I highly recommend this article to anyone struggling with a "late" reader or writer.