Is this normal?

[srexrode]

I have two boys uncirc'ed who never had issues. The next three were homebirthed and I didn't want them circ'ed. The first uncirc'ed had NO problems at all. The second had THREE foreskin infections in about 2mos- at 3yo! (The first time, we did AB, the others, tto.)
My 16mos has had issues with his penis. The first time, it was bulbous and red. I thought I'd have to take him to the doctor. But overnight, after a bath, airing, and tto, it seemed to clear up a bit. It was red two days.
The second time, it was inflamed and had white stuff oozing out. I just lightly cleaned it, aired it 10 min, then it seemed a bit better.
Now, about weekly (or twice a week), he wakes during the night (this has been going on about a month?) fussing. I change his diaper, but he won't let me put it back on him until he's almost back to sleep. I've noticed a few drops of blood on the tip about weekly (once it even stuck to the diaper! OUCH). The foreskin looks VERY blanched (it looks like that MANY times, not just when he fusses). And a lot of times, when he wakes, he has an erection. The skin often has two "circles" where there is blood or a clear fluid that comes out when I change him at night due to his fussiness. The circles are often there about a day, then disappear- until next time. He doesn't appear to have issues urinating. Some nights, he's soaked; others, barely wet, when I change him.

I'm afraid to take him back to the doctor, as she apparently has NO experience with uncirc'ed babies!!! I took him to her and explained what was happening about 3wks ago. She was looking at me like my head was on backward. She kind of looked at it, pulled a little , then said it looked "fine". Obviously she has NO clue what it's supposed to look like, nor what is abnormal!! (It was just blanched when I took him for his well child check and asked about it.)
The bleeding and such hasn't gotten worse since she probed at it, but he's certainly not getting better.
I'm supposed to take him for a weight check tomorrow, and was going to ask about his penis, but you can see why I'm concerned to do that! She, in her infinite wisdom, is likely to just tell me circ'ing will "fix it all".

Any thoughts? (Sorry this is so hodge-podged in thoughts. Perplexed, sleepless Mommy at the keyboard!!!) Thanks!

[SlackerDad]

I think your concern is very valid. By living in a country where intact penises became so rare for so many decades, a lot of understanding was lost about not only what is normal (which is what we usually talk about) but also what is abnormal, and what to do about it! (This could even be used, in a twisted way, to justify continuing RIC, which makes my head spin.) It's reminiscent of other Mothering type issues: for instance, the loss of womanly knowledge about breastfeeding that used to be passed from mother to daughter but that chain got broken in the middle decades of the 20th century and is still being reestablished.

I'd almost think you'd want to get on Skype or some other kind of video chat service and have a "virtual visit" with a doctor from Canada, the UK, etc. Does anyone from those countries know of a sympathetic pediatrician or urologist that would volunteer? Just an idea, hopefully others will have more.

[MyBoysBlue]

Have you tried baking soda in the bath. I found it worked great on my DS when he had a bit of sweling and discharge. I gave him a bath twice a day for 3 days but It was looking better after just 2.

[TyrantOfTheWeek]

Could it be a yeast infection? Sounds like it could be since the discharge was white and not a greenish/yellowish color. Also, did the discharge have any kind of smell?
If it's yeast, monistat would clear it up.

GL mama!

[jenP]

Sounds like you really need to see a doctor. Could be separation issues... could be an infection (bacteria or fungus) or who knows? You won't know without a diagnosis. You need a diagnosis so you can use the proper treatment.
But, as you pointed out, you don't trust your doctor on penis issues. So you really need to find a "foreskin friendly" physician. One who will diagnose your son's problem and make a treatment plan without even considering circumcision. (Isn't it crazy how so many doctors do that? I mean, if your eyelid was crusted shut and oozing clear fluid and red and swollen, they would figure out what was wrong and treat it. They wouldn't cut it off. But with the foreskin, it's... "oh, it's swollen and oozing. Cut it off. Next!" Insane.) Maybe you could post in tribal areas looking for FF Phys.? Or, maybe contact Doctors Opposing Circumcision. They may be able to refer you to someone not too far away from you, or even someone who could do a phone or video consult.
I would not just let it go, I would not use home remedies without knowing what the problem is exactly, and I would not take him to a doctor who does not understand the intact penis. So, it may involve travel or a lot of searching, but that leaves the only option of finding a competent physician.
And believe me, I am NOT big on going to the doctor. I don't run to the doctor for every little fever or sniffle or hive. I know most things resolve on their own, especially viruses. BUT, the one time I do go to the doctor is for something that I can't figure out and that is not self-limiting. Then I want a good diagnosis so I can decide what to do about it.

All the best to you, hope the issue resolves soon!

Jen

[srexrode]

Thank you all! I wasn't thinking this was normal. To be honest, with the other kids, I just tended to "clean and get out of there", if you KWIM I never really "thought" about what it is supposed to look like or do. But this just seemed odd in that it wasn't an isolated case. I'm glad to know I'm not over-reacting!

When my 3yo had a bacterial infection, the whole penis swelled up horribly and it hurt him (similar to a continuous orgasm, I guess). But there was NO discharge at all. My baby's isn't doing that, so I'm doubting bacteria. Plus, since I'd often seen bacteria as a cause of penile issues, I put Bacitracin on it a few times a day (that was the ONLY advise she really gave me anyway). It didn't clear it up any better than it has on its own.

Tyrantoftheweek, this comes and goes???? He DID have a typical yeast rash in his diaper area last week, but not ON his penis. And he hasn't had one for months prior to that.
The only additional smell I've noticed is really, really strong ammonia. I don't know if that means he could have a UTI and if that could affect the penis? I guess I'll have to ask the doctor for her opinion.

Myboysblue, I tried the baking soda once, but it didn't seem to be any different from a normal bath. Maybe I should have tried longer...

As an odd "side note" that may or may not be related:
I have been breastfeeding since birth, but in Apri, I started having problems with my nipples hurting. At first, they cracked and hurt. (I'm really experienced, having had eight children and breastfeeding all of them- most over 2yrs.) I put lanolin on them to no avail. Finally a LC suggested "all the guns" of lanolin, bacitracin, anti-fungal (like jock itch- my DH laughed about that one!), and cortisone! After TWO weeks, I finally cleared up. But some of the symptoms (burning during and after nursing, sore nipples, and cracking) have come and gone for months.

I think I will go ahead and keep the appt tomorrow. BUT I will NOT allow her to pull on him at all. (When she did last time, it didn't seem to bother him. And she was more looking AT it, not IN it; moving the skin a bit to see what she easily could.) I'll just make a big deal about finding out the root cause of this and seeing WHAT needs put on it.

It IS possible that when I go in next time, I might have the mother (it's a mother, who's been in the practice for many, many years, and her dd, who has been in for about three now). The mother (who grew up in the Phillipeans), might know a little more about intact boys!

Thanks again! If she doesn't seem to know what is going on, I will see about contacting DOC.

[GoBecGo]

Originally Posted by srexrode

As an odd "side note" that may or may not be related:
I have been breastfeeding since birth, but in Apri, I started having problems with my nipples hurting. At first, they cracked and hurt. (I'm really experienced, having had eight children and breastfeeding all of them- most over 2yrs.) I put lanolin on them to no avail. Finally a LC suggested "all the guns" of lanolin, bacitracin, anti-fungal (like jock itch- my DH laughed about that one!), and cortisone! After TWO weeks, I finally cleared up. But some of the symptoms (burning during and after nursing, sore nipples, and cracking) have come and gone for months.

Bolding (mine) SCREAMS thrush to me. I would try treating this, as it's possible he's got systemic thrush from you (or you from him). Hopefully some of the other mama's can give good advice re: thrush treatments, but i know one woman who painted her DD's vaginal area with the same stuff she'd been given to paint her nipples with when they had thrush (in breasts/nipples of mom and mouth/nappy areas of DD) and it cleared up.

[jenP]

Originally Posted by srexrode

anti-fungal (like jock itch- my DH laughed about that one!)

The mother (who grew up in the Phillipeans), might know a little more about intact boys!

I had a friend who lived in the South when she was nursing her babies, and she got yeast on her nipples all the time. She used the same med. commonly used for athlete's foot so she called her condition "Athlete's Tit."

Hopefully the Filipino lady will have some good advice for you!

Jen

[kiara7]

Are you using cloth diapers? If you are you might want to strip them, they might have yeast on them.
If you are breastfeeding, you can always put some milk on it.

[srexrode]

Okay, then I'm not totally insane! LOL Reading back through, I wondered if the two could be related. And the fact that we BOTH seem to be going back and forth on this seemed odd.

Jen- "Athlete's Tit!" That's a good one! I'm not sure about putting that stuff on the baby's penis, but I guess it can't be any worse than it on my nipples and him sucking any remains off!!!

Kiara, yes, I am using cloth diapers. (I've been using cloth for 13yrs now!) I hadn't thought about stripping them, although I'll bet that is a good idea, especially since they're still "smelly" even after a LONG wash AND extra rinse.
And yes, I breastfeed. Hopefully my "contaminated milk" wouldn't cause further issues if I used it directly on him

[MCatLvrMom2A&X]

You can try OTC monistat the 7 day kind and if it is yeast you will see improvement. If you do take him to the Dr. then have them do a swab of the tip only that will show what is there whether it is bacterial or yeast.

If you have yeast then he needs to be treated for it and if he has yeast you need treated. That is where a lot of problems arise when one is treated and one is not the yeast goes back and forth.

[srexrode]

Thanks for the advise! It's crazy, because two nights ago, it was bleeding. Yesterday, it was quite red. This morning, there were those two "red circles" on it, and it was still blanched. And this evening, it looks clear! I'd say whatever it is, his body is sure trying hard to fight it by itself!
If the doctor will check it, I will be sure to remind her to just swab the tip! Great plan!!

[glongley]

"The mother (who grew up in the Phillipeans), might know a little more about intact boys!"

They routinely circumcise boys in the Phillipines later in childhood, so I wouldn't count on her being particularly foreskin-knowledgeable, just because she's Filipino.

[SlackerDad]

Originally Posted by glongley

"The mother (who grew up in the Phillipeans), might know a little more about intact boys!"

They routinely circumcise boys in the Phillipines later in childhood, so I wouldn't count on her being particularly foreskin-knowledgeable, just because she's Filipino.

But if it's later in childhood, wouldn't they know about baby foreskins at least?

[srexrode]

We did see the mother today. She did NOT pull on the foreskin. She only looked at it (and said it's irritated- likely due to cloth diapers, since they are more likely to hold the urine closer to the body). Then she squeezed gently to look at the opening, and said it was just diaper irritation, and to keep him diaper free as much as possible.

[Lula's Mom]

I'd strip my diapers and treat ds for yeast with over the counter vaginal yeast treatment, and see if it doesn't clear up. Poor little guy, it sounds awful. I'd bet that's what it is, and it sure sounds like you have it too. You may need a systemic yeast treatment like Diflucan if topical treatments aren't keeping the symptoms from coming back. Both of you should be on probiotics to help fight off recurrence, too. Oh, and the Bacitracin will just make it worse if it is yeast, so I would discontinue that.

[srexrode]

Thank you, Kristi. I'll strip the diapers tomorrow. I did stop the Bacitracin, as I didn't feel it was doing any good and I do not like to use ANYTHING unnecessarily. I will see if the yeast treatment helps him. Getting into my doc to get an RX for Diflucan may prove very challenging, but I will look into that too, since I've had what seems like recurring yeast issues for many months now.
In the meanwhile, the baby and I are both consuming a TON of plain yogurt. Now if I could prevent myself from eating all the Thanskgiving SWEETS, I'd be better off.

[glongley]

Liquid acidophilus applied topically to the penis may be helpful with yeast, by reestablishing colonies of good bacteria in that area. Pour a little in the palm of your hand, dip the penis in it and let is dry on. Maybe 4 times a day for a few days, and see if it helps; if so continue longer. Ask at your local health food store for an appropriate form for topical use.

[srexrode]

I've never heard of liquid acidophilus. I will have to see if our local health food store even carries that! The concept makes sense, though! If they don't have it, maybe I'll just add a little water (or better yet, breast milk) to the powder I have. Thank you!