Would it be so bad to keep my mouth shut?

[thefreckledmama]

We're having our first boy this spring. About a month ago, before we knew for sure, I sat down with my husband and had the talk about circ. He ended up getting upset (not angry, crying), but in the end said he would go along with whatever I thought best.

Fast forward to a few days ago. I said to him, "Just so there's no confusion, you are still agreeable to not circing?" He said, "No."



Here's the thing...we're having a UC. So even if we were going to circ (which we absolutely WON'T be), there's not going to be any means of having it done. We don't do WBV either, so there's not the chance of it coming up in that circumstance.

This hasn't occurred to him, and I honestly doubt it will. He also would NEVER take the baby on his own and have it done, so I'm not worried about anything like that.

So, that being the case-would it be a huge deal for me to just keep my mouth shut, knowing with our plans it's not even an option? Or do I need to continue talking to him about it until he is without a doubt on board with not circing?

[BlessedMommy2006]

Wow, that's a tough situation. It's hard to say for sure what to do--but I don't think that I would keep totally quiet. What are DH's reasons for wanting to circ? Maybe if you find out what is motivating him, you can kind of go from there.

[jessjgh1]

Can you let it go? If so and that lets go all of your stress than I guess go ahead.
If not, I might suggest having a convesation that closes the subject... honestly, you are not going to want to have it dragged back out after your little one is here either.

My guess is that he has not thought one bit about this and just gave you an answer the first time to appease you and the 2nd time, gave you a knee jerk reaction. I'd say talk about it but make him do the work on it and take care to keep yourself from getting stressed

Check out the article the vulnrability of men (for you, not for dh) to get some of idea of why he might act like this.

Sorry, this is scrambled, my lo just climbed on to my lap...
Jessica

[Fyrestorm]

I think you need to get to the bottom of it and get him onboard. What if the unthinkable happens and you end up having to transfer to the hospital...you need to have contingency plan.

[thefreckledmama]

We have briefly discussed it with each of my pregnancies, which tend to get heated, then he says he doesn't want to continue until we know whether we're having a boy or girl. So until now, it's ceased to be an issue. When we had the discussion last month, I told him it was because I felt we needed to have the issue settled before we knew, because if it wasn't it would probably be another girl. (Silly, I know-but he was refusing to discuss girl names because he thought it would "jinx" it...we're fun like that )

He brought up that he didn't want his son being teased, and I explained how circ is becoming less and less common, so that wasn't really a factor. Although I thought it would be (and maybe it is and he's just not admitting it), that he wants his son to "look like him", which I understand and empathize with, but not enough to brutally alter my child. The most prominent point he seemed to make was that the baby "wouldn't be a real man" if he wasn't circ'd. I brought up our nephew (his sister's son) who is intact, and asked if he won't someday be a real man. He said, "yes, he will" and that's when he said that we would do whatever I thought best.

I think the biggest issue for him is the looking different aspect-because he knows and constantly praises me for all the research I do regarding ANY decision I make for our children. To me, that is the hardest point to really convince, because it's so emotionally based. I think if he were trying to site hygiene or medical need, that would be easier to work with, because I could throw fact based evidence at him and call it a day. And not that I don't want to, but with it being an emotionally based position, I have to tread so much more carefully.

I'm going to try to find (and please direct me to them if you know of any) thoughts and feelings for my husband to read from fathers who were circ'd, but left their sons intact,...especially if they were hesitant to do so. I think more than anything he needs to be reassured that it's not going to interfere with any bond or relationship they have with one another.

[thefreckledmama]

Originally Posted by Fyrestorm

I think you need to get to the bottom of it and get him onboard. What if the unthinkable happens and you end up having to transfer to the hospital...you need to have contingency plan.

In Missouri (I don't know about other states), the father has no legal rights until the birth certificate is filed. So at the very worst, I would have a pissy husband to deal with, but there wouldn't be the risk of my son being butchered, because I wouldn't consent to it, and he couldn't.

[Fyrestorm]

Originally Posted by thefreckledmama

In Missouri (I don't know about other states), the father has no legal rights until the birth certificate is filed. So at the very worst, I would have a pissy husband to deal with, but there wouldn't be the risk of my son being butchered, because I wouldn't consent to it, and he couldn't.

That's great! IN CT, the husband can sign all consents as the presumed father without even proving he's married to the mother

[sam1980]

No offense, but it sounds like he has some real underlying issues about circ. I would try (gently at first) to get to the bottom of them. Why does he feel intact men aren't "real men?" That seems so... odd.

If that doesn't get things accomplished, I would be honest with him and frank. Tell him your son is NOT getting circ'd no ifs, ands, or buts about it. When he feels up to a lengthy discussion you can tell him WHY you are not circ'ing. Until then, don't leave him a choice.

[thefreckledmama]

Originally Posted by Fyrestorm

That's great! IN CT, the husband can sign all consents as the presumed father without even proving he's married to the mother

The husband is the presumed father, but still has no legal rights-at least in terms of consenting for any procedures. I don't remember how it came up, but with either my second or third we were told this in the hospital.

Originally Posted by sam1980

No offense, but it sounds like he has some real underlying issues about circ. I would try (gently at first) to get to the bottom of them. Why does he feel intact men aren't "real men?" That seems so... odd.

If that doesn't get things accomplished, I would be honest with him and frank. Tell him your son is NOT getting circ'd no ifs, ands, or buts about it. When he feels up to a lengthy discussion you can tell him WHY you are not circ'ing. Until then, don't leave him a choice.

Right, because in terms of actually deciding whether or not to circ., the decision has been made, whether he ever comes to terms with it or not. I would just like for him to reach the point that he agrees with our son staying intact, so that it doesn't become a constant source of strife between us.

[Fyrestorm]

The looking different issue is easy peasy!

First,ask if he knows his father's status

Then ask what if the baby has a different eye color...who gets the contacts. People are are more likely to notice that their eyes are a different color (unless they have a morning penis parade on your street)

Third, you can suggest that he would need to shave all his pubic hair and wear ice in his shorts at all times, it's the only way they would look anything alike down there circed or not...or he could just restore his foreskin.

4th, ask if your daughters should have genital surgery, suggest that you get one of your daughters so you can compare exterior genitalia and figure out what needs to be fixed on them so you look alike.

Finally, explain to him that 2 two wrongs don't make a right. Perhaps your parents spanked and you don't...etc.

[pdx.mothernurture]

I think the "real man" issue might revolve around the absolutely mistaken idea that infant circumcision is some kind of coming of age rite like adolescent circumcision is perceived by some cultures...as if newborn circumcision will somehow "toughen him up".

A possible counter argument might be: "Do you even hear what you're saying? When he gets older he's going to fall down and get back up, he's going to experience pain---bruises, skinned knees, scratches, heaven forbid broken bones. He'll have his entire life to face his fears, stand up for himself, and overcome challenges. What will circumcision teach him?

When he emerges from my body warm and wet and new-completely perfect, defenseless, trusting-the very last thing in the world he needs is to be taken from our protective embrace and strapped to a plastic by gloved, scalpel-wielding hands to have part of his completely healthy and normal penis amputated.

The only thing forcing an unnecessary and traumatic experience on a vulnerable would prove would be our inability to think critically about an outdated cultural practice. It's his body, it should be his choice.

[LovelyWillow]

Originally Posted by thefreckledmama

I'm going to try to find (and please direct me to them if you know of any) thoughts and feelings for my husband to read from fathers who were circ'd, but left their sons intact,...especially if they were hesitant to do so. I think more than anything he needs to be reassured that it's not going to interfere with any bond or relationship they have with one another.

Hi everyone! I am new here and have mostly been lurking. However, when I saw you ask about a site where a father discusses his view on circumcision for his son I felt I should reply.

This site really helped me when trying to convince my husband that circumcising was the wrong option for our son. I think hearing it from a man's perspective really helped my husband see the argument from a different view point, and it ultimately swayed him.

So here it is! http://www.momversation.com/blog/dads-view-circumcision

[lurve]

seeing the movie Cut at cutthefilm.com helped my husband...

[SlackerDad]

First off, what are UC and WBV? Some kind of homebirth lingo? I don't get it, and I've been a fan of midwifery etc. for years, so I'm pretty surprised I can't parse those.

Secondly, this "real man" stuff...well, as another posted said, "no offense", but as an intact man I'm offended. I mean, seriously, WTF?!? Is this actually what circed men think? I'm especially shocked to hear it from someone who is married to someone posting here.

[Fyrestorm]

UC - Unassisted Childbirth

WBV = Well Baby Visit

[Otto]

Originally Posted by SlackerDad

First off, what are UC and WBV?

UC = unassisted childbirth; WBVs = well-baby visits.

Originally Posted by SlackerDad

I mean, seriously, WTF?!? Is this actually what circed men think?

Do you really suppose that circumcised men make up some sort of social group that would happen in common to "think" something of this nature on the subject? In over 40 years, I've never even heard the topic come up among peers, except when a friend converted to Judaism (hatafat dam brit).

I'd guess it more likely that it's precisely the lack of thinking anything in particular about it that has brought about educational efforts.

[VroomieMama]

Originally Posted by LovelyWillow

Hi everyone! I am new here and have mostly been lurking. However, when I saw you ask about a site where a father discusses his view on circumcision for his son I felt I should reply.

This site really helped me when trying to convince my husband that circumcising was the wrong option for our son. I think hearing it from a man's perspective really helped my husband see the argument from a different view point, and it ultimately swayed him.

So here it is! http://www.momversation.com/blog/dads-view-circumcision

very good blog read! I enjoyed reading that.

[OperaDiva]

I mostly lurk here, but just wanted to suggest another possibility for why a circ'd dad may want their son circ'd, as I strongly suspect this may be my hubby's case. His issue was not locker room teasing, but thinking that me not wanting our son to look like him meant that I was unhappy with how he looked. I love him, and have never been with an intact guy so it really is a non-issue to me, but guys are so sensitive about stuff like this, so I thought I'd mention it as a potential talking point.

[jenP]

Originally Posted by Fyrestorm

The looking different issue is easy peasy!

First,ask if he knows his father's status

Then ask what if the baby has a different eye color...who gets the contacts. People are are more likely to notice that their eyes are a different color (unless they have a morning penis parade on your street)

Third, you can suggest that he would need to shave all his pubic hair and wear ice in his shorts at all times, it's the only way they would look anything alike down there circed or not...or he could just restore his foreskin.

4th, ask if your daughters should have genital surgery, suggest that you get one of your daughters so you can compare exterior genitalia and figure out what needs to be fixed on them so you look alike.

Finally, explain to him that 2 two wrongs don't make a right. Perhaps your parents spanked and you don't...etc.

Hmm, this seems to assume that when the man says "I want my son to look like me" that he actually, literally means he wants the kid's penis to look like his. Really, all the man means is "I want the kid circumcised, because I am."
To take it further, what he really means is, "If I do not circumcise my son, it means that maybe there is something wrong with circumcision, and since I am circumcised I cannot deal with that idea, so I will have my son circumcised so that I can go on believing that circumcision, and therefore my circumcised penis, is jolly good. Even better if, by circumcising my son, I can believe that he and I are part of a grand cultural and family tradition. Anything, just so I can continue telling myself that I am happy to be circumcised and never have to face the idea that I may be missing - or missing out on - something!"

It isn't actually about the looks. Just about making sure the surgery is done to the kid so that the dad can feel good about what was done to him.

Jen

[Otto]

Originally Posted by jenP

It isn't actually about the looks. Just about making sure the surgery is done to the kid so that the dad can feel good about what was done to him.

I would respectfully submit that I think this is an overgeneralization. At the very least, it presupposes that arguments to harm, rather than recognition of needlessness, are in broad circulation among the male population.