Multi-spinoff - Gifts, a sign our culture is "sick"? - Page 6

[~pi]

Originally Posted by North_Of_60

I'm in that situation, in the physical sense, every year. We usually host christmas and it's a ZOO here. It's a minor inconvenience, but I don't let it ruin christmas or dictate other the traditions or activities we do.

When you host, you have a lot more control. It can much more complex at others' homes.

May I ask how long it takes you to open gifts given that you face the same situation every year?

And I'm not sure if you've read my posts, but we've actually dealt with this quite effectively and in a way that totally works for us. We don't let it ruin Christmas, either, because we set limits on the total number of items we will accept.

[Marylizah]

I'd like to address the question of whether or not etiquette allows you to discuss gift-giving at all....

Of course it does! Especially with close family! Last year in my family the adults decided to donate money to a shelter instead of exchanging gifts. Because we all talked and agreed that we all had plenty of *stuff* and didn't need more. And because it would free up time to hang out together and have meals and enjoy each other's company.

Of course you can have that kind of conversation. What you can't say is "We're sick of the boatloads of crap you give us each year. Knock it off, willya?"

You say, "You know, space is tight in our house. We just don't have room for many giant toys. Can we talk about cutting back a bit from now on?"

This way you aren't dictating, or demanding, but opening a dialogue.

[Bluegoat]

Originally Posted by North_Of_60

I'm in that situation, in the physical sense, every year. We usually host christmas and it's a ZOO here. It's a minor inconvenience, but I don't let it ruin christmas or dictate other the traditions or activities we do.



I have a hypothetical question that this kind of triggered, though I'm not necessarily asking you... how can family members who care about each other be blind to issues that are important to one another? Is this a closeness issue? Like more of a problem for families who don't live near each other and only get together on special occasions? Or maybe not a distance issue, but a relationship that's lacking a real connection? But there's an obligation to get together on the holidays even though you know nothing about your family members?

I'm starting to wonder if these issues aren't directly related to the quality of the relationship between the gift givers and receivers. I mean, how can you not realize that someone doesn't have room for 3 CAR LOADS of stuff? My sister lives in a tiny 2 bedroom basement suite and barely has room for the baby gear she has now. How on Earth could I load her up with 3 cars loads of crap and then claim to care about her?

I think we might also be confusing "care" with "well meaning". I think people can go WAY over board and mean well (over compensating for not seeing the kids more, not having toys as a kid themselves, etc), but with a little more care they might realize their gift(s) is not practical. I could go out and drop a load on gifts for my nephew and chalk it up to being excited, he is my first nephew after all. And I don't live near them so I could argue that it's to make up for lost opportunities to get him stuff. My heart would be in the right place. But I don't think that would be the caring thing to do KNOWING my sister's living arrangements.

Which brings me to wondering why gifts are being exchanged by people who don't know each other well? Is it because we're obligated due to that person's family rank? Like immediate family? THAT is what feels materialistic to me - that society has determined that mothers, fathers, sisters, brothers must all exchange gifts even though you don't know what the person wants or what is/isn't important to them. And if that situation is as stressful as it is for some people, why do they do it repeatedly year after year?

Well, I'm not sure that this is the case. My MIL is the one who goes overboard with gifts in our family, and is pushing the kids to "keep opening" when they are just ready to rest a bit and look at what they have. She would be mortified if she brought them to tears, but she really overdoes the gifts.
She is also quite close to my girls, and spends a lot of time with them. She knows that we prefer less gifts, as would her other kids (especially since the year they had to make to 150km car trips to get it all home). I am not sure what the issue is - I have realized quantity is an issue for her, as I once suggested she and I go in on a more expensive gift for my niece, but she still felt the need to buy the usual amount of stuff. And for the most part it isn't really the kind of thing they would really enjoy.

It's weird, but I don't think it is about lack of care in every situation.

[North_Of_60]

Originally Posted by ~pi

When you host, you have a lot more control. It can much more complex at others' homes.

Perhaps. I'm only speaking from the perspective of hosting.

May I ask how long it takes you to open gifts given that you face the same situation every year?

We usually start on Christmas eve. We have an appetizer party and open a few gifts (mostly corny patching PJ's and slippers so everyone looks spiffy for the the photos the next morning ) and then the next morning it takes the better part of the day. I guess if we did it all at once we could do it in 2 hours maybe? But we usually do stockings first, then the coffee and sweets come out, then a few more, then we do brunch, then a few more, and then the rest of the day is spent messing around with our new stuff. Last year we let DD open a ton on Christmas eve because we knew once she saw her new play kitchen she wouldn't want to open anything else (and really most of the stuff was not hers anyway, she got food for her kitchen and that was pretty much it). It takes us a while, and there is stuff EVERYWHERE.

I'm not sure if you've read my posts, but we've actually dealt with this quite effectively and in a way that totally works for us. We don't let it ruin Christmas, either, because we set limits on the total number of items we will accept.

I wasn't necessarily meaning you.

[rightkindofme]

Originally Posted by hildare

my sweet dh wrote an article on gift giving/from an anarchist/anticapitalist perspective, if anyone wants to read it:
http://news.infoshop.org/article.php...71214101742649

This is a great article, thanks for sharing.

[Ninetales]

Originally Posted by ~pi

And yes, other people going into debt does matter to me because these people have asked us for loans and asked us to chip in on gifts they have already purchased.

The two things need not have anything to do with each other. There is nothing in etiquette or social boundaries that stops you from simply saying no to these requests. By saying no, they will be forced to re-evaluate their spending or deal with their own debt. Taking on other people's issues is not required, for the gift giving or the money spent.

Honestly, the more I read about this, the more these problems seem self-inflicted. If you want to discuss guidelines with people, that is one thing. But you have made it seem like you've already tried and they don't listen. In which case, all you're doing is stressing yourself out and making what should be a happy time into something that's miserable for you. I'm not sure what exactly you want to hear. That it's ok to tell people exactly what to buy or not buy for your child? That's not something I'll ever agree with but you can do whatever you want, so I don't see what the issue is.

It really comes off like you want your relatives to feel exactly the same way as you regarding objects and that's probably not going to happen. Turning every gift giving event into an anxiety riddled nightmare because of it won't help and only comes off looking martyrish.

[shelley4]

subbing!! i find this discussion extremely interesting!

[~pi]

North_Of_60, it sounds like that works for you. That's great, seriously. That schedule would not work for us, for a variety of reasons, including other commitments and traditions that we have for Christmas Eve, and the fact that no one in the family actually wants to spend all day opening gifts. Even the excessive relatives (back when they were allowed to be excessive) would whine afterwards about how there was never a chance to play a game or go for a walk. (They were not anywhere near self-aware enough to figure out why that might be.)

Originally Posted by Ninetales

The two things need not have anything to do with each other. There is nothing in etiquette or social boundaries that stops you from simply saying no to these requests. By saying no, they will be forced to re-evaluate their spending or deal with their own debt. Taking on other people's issues is not required, for the gift giving or the money spent.

It must be lovely to live in a world in which everyone is rational and reasonable. In the real world, there is what should happen, and there is what does happen.

Seriously, check out behavioral economics sometime. People are not rational, especially not about money. (If negative consequences were enough to make people re-evaluate their spending or deal with their own debt, the world would be a much more financially sound place!)

You don't have to actually choose to take on someone else's issues for them to have an impact on your life. For example, many families have intertwined finances for cultural reasons.

Originally Posted by Ninetales

Honestly, the more I read about this, the more these problems seem self-inflicted. If you want to discuss guidelines with people, that is one thing. But you have made it seem like you've already tried and they don't listen. In which case, all you're doing is stressing yourself out and making what should be a happy time into something that's miserable for you. I'm not sure what exactly you want to hear. That it's ok to tell people exactly what to buy or not buy for your child? That's not something I'll ever agree with but you can do whatever you want, so I don't see what the issue is.

It really comes off like you want your relatives to feel exactly the same way as you regarding objects and that's probably not going to happen. Turning every gift giving event into an anxiety riddled nightmare because of it won't help and only comes off looking martyrish.

Is this "you" intended to be me personally? Because if yes, you're quite mistaken. I'm sorry if my use of the present tense is confusing; I'm using it to speak factually about what it can feel like and what can happen when one has to deal this sort of excessive gift-giving. I wasn't speaking about my own current situation, because we are well past this. We dealt with it very effectively by setting limits on the number of gifts we will accept. In other words, I'm not "stressing" over gifts at all.

I do, however, have some understanding of others who are dealing with this situation, which can be way more complicated and fraught with family tension than might be possible to understand if you aren't in that situation. Not everyone is willing to risk completely jeopardizing family relationships by addressing this problem head-on.

[Hoopin' Mama]

Originally Posted by Ninetales

The two things need not have anything to do with each other. There is nothing in etiquette or social boundaries that stops you from simply saying no to these requests. By saying no, they will be forced to re-evaluate their spending or deal with their own debt. Taking on other people's issues is not required, for the gift giving or the money spent.

Honestly, the more I read about this, the more these problems seem self-inflicted. If you want to discuss guidelines with people, that is one thing. But you have made it seem like you've already tried and they don't listen. In which case, all you're doing is stressing yourself out and making what should be a happy time into something that's miserable for you. I'm not sure what exactly you want to hear. That it's ok to tell people exactly what to buy or not buy for your child? That's not something I'll ever agree with but you can do whatever you want, so I don't see what the issue is.

It really comes off like you want your relatives to feel exactly the same way as you regarding objects and that's probably not going to happen. Turning every gift giving event into an anxiety riddled nightmare because of it won't help and only comes off looking martyrish.

With all due respect, from your sig I gather you are awaiting your first? Now, I don't mean this as a I-Know-More-Than-You comment, but it seems clear you cannot understand where some of us are coming from.

I, too, have been in the situation where ds was surrounded by a mountain of gifts and a gaggle of adults and ready to cry because everyone is saying "open this one next". I dealt with my child having a meltdown because the toy he received broke 3 days later. I, unfortunately, have been in a situation where it was clear the grandparents took great joy in giving ds something that goes against our parenting ideals. I've had relatives sneak toy guns into my diaper bag for cripe's sakes, so I would inadvertantly take them home. A simple family visit turns into bags, if not boxes, of extra stuff in our house.

So while I would not classify our holidays with family as an "anxiety-riddled nightmare", I will say it can seriously take away from the simple joys of celebrating with family.

A problem of the privileged? Yes, most certainly. But still a problem. Calling us martyrs ain't helpin'.

I do NOT dictate what people get him. I ask to cut down on the quantity. and when I do, yes I feel like I'm breeching etiquette.

[Hoopin' Mama]

And may I just add, before I head back to lurkdom, is that violent acts that occur on Black Friday, and the fact that a WalMart employee was trampled to death last year, does indeed indicate that our consumer-driven holidays can be quite "sick".

[Yooper]

OP back I was on the road all day driving to the scene of the crime so to speak.

Self-inflicted, huh? I dunno....short of writing off entire parts of our families, nothing so far has "worked" which is a big reason why I started this thread. As I mentioned way upstream, we have asked the relatives to limit gifts in two ways. Size (small enough to fit in our house or car if we are driving) and number. The size thing has mostly been held to but the number has been completely ignored. When I have mentioned asking relatives to limit the number of gifts in other threads, I have been told it is rude to do so. Another reason I wanted to start this thread.....

No, I am not willing to cut off family members over this. No more than I would be willing to cut great-aunt Edna out of my life because she lovingly knits me a sweater that happens to be three sizes too small.....every year. Yes, they do not understand us very well in SOME respects and yes, they have not respected our wishes to limit the number of gifts. But we do still love them and they do mean well. They try very hard to gift items dd will like. It is just FAR too much and is causing an overwhelming situation both during gift opening and when we get it all home and try to find places for everything. And not to pound this into the ground, but it is very VERY difficult to talk with dd about being environmental stewards when she is swimming in a toy store. Nevermind discussing the real meaning of Christmas I am looking to ways to address this without being offensive.

I was thinking about this a great deal as I sat in the car for 12 hours today. I counted up about 25 people who annually give dd Christmas gifts. If they each gave just one single gift, it would still be a lot! All but a few give multiple gifts and some go hog wild. Both grandmas give as many gifts as my dh and I got from them as children. Dd gets THREE stockings from "santa" each year. None from us.

So, as I was thinking about these 25 people..... Dd is the ONLY child most of these people have anything resembling a close relationship with and she is likely the only child they give gifts to on Christmas. Dd takes great delight in having so many loving a caring people in her life! And I am delighted to "share" my dd with these people. I understand why they enjoy shopping for and watching her delight in the gifts. Most of them grew up very poor and many have shared touching experiences about having that one special aunt or family friend that went out of their way to make what might have otherwise been a bleak holiday a special experience for them when they were kids. They now want to do that for someone else. My dd. We do not live close enough for them to do some of the cool things they talk about.....being taken window shopping in a big city, being taken ice skating, treated to a fancy restaurant, making gingerbread houses, etc..... So it ends up being excessive gifting. And thus, the quandary we are in.

I fully realize that there might be no "solution". Dd will be 18 in 12 years. And will no longer be living in our house. Obviously, we will continue to model graciousness, talk about privilege and passing things on to people who can use them (although ultimately that is dd's decision), brainstorm new toy storage solutions, etc..... However, I still enjoy hashing the issue out on here and who knows, maybe I will stumble on a brilliant way for us to address this positively.

[Yooper]

Originally Posted by Hoopin' Mama

And may I just add, before I head back to lurkdom, is that violent acts that occur on Black Friday, and the fact that a WalMart employee was trampled to death last year, does indeed indicate that our consumer-driven holidays can be quite "sick".

No kidding!

[madskye]

So many interesting posts!

Someone mentioned that the aggression/resentment factor might have something to do with relationships where there is no real connection or connection is lacking. I agree--I think a lot of the issues that come up around holidays and gift giving in general have more to do with the substance or lack of, in a relationship, than the actual gift. "You don't know me!" "You don't listen to me!"

And the other thing is having too much...being lucky to have too much stuff. I've been rich and I've been poor and there have been some times when the gifts I was given at Christmas or my birthday made me cry because they were so generous! And there have been other times when they've made me cry because they were such a waste of money and harked back to the whole not feeling understood or listened to. Not because I asked for a certain thing and didn't get it, but because the gift was so outside of my lifestyle and who I am, if that makes any sense.

Gifts can sometimes be more about what/who someone wants you to be than who you really are.

[Linda on the move]

Originally Posted by Storm Bride

This does boil back down to respect, but it's definitely not self-inflicted, yk?

yeah, when you take a disfunctional family of orgin (like mine) and add money and presents, it just makes a big mess. It's not self inflected, but we no longer do the extended family gathering and Christmas day is just DH and I and our 2 kids. That was the ONLY solution.

Originally Posted by ~pi

(They were not anywhere near self-aware enough to figure out why that might be.)

It's amazing how little self awareness some people have, or how little they remember from the year before.

Not everyone is willing to risk completely jeopardizing family relationships by addressing this problem head-on.

It really came down to that for us. We had to decide if we wanted a sane holiday that we could enjoy with our kids or if we wanted to see the extended family. Both were not possible. We are less close to our extended family because of that decision, but Christmas is a happy day for us now.

Originally Posted by Yooper

Obviously, we will continue to model graciousness, talk about privilege and passing things on to people who can use them (although ultimately that is dd's decision),

I always wanted to be respectful of my kids' feelings about weeding out toys, but the excessive gift giving made that impossible. We HAD to pass things along, and far more things that they really wanted to get rid of. They did best if I was sneaky about.

It's really a lose-lose as a mom. Have too many toys so the child can never ever pick up (much less focus while playing) or encourage the child to get rid of things (when the child hates to part with anything) or just dispear toys (like poltical activists in 3rd world countries). The first two options made my kids sad, and the last one didn't.

[valkynlu]

Its hard to add to the discussion without sounding too repetitive, so I'll go with the personal experience here.

We try to just find a balance. As someone posted before, our family generally knows our position on what we like/dislike for our children's gifts. Sometimes they stick to it, sometimes they don't. Thankfully, our family is generally poor, so they don't get LOADS of gifts. There's still too many in my book, but I know we don't have it too bad.

One thing we started asking for last year are long-term gifts. My daughter got a play kitchen that she'll use for years and that my son will use with her/after her. We want to get them an easel to paint/draw and that'll certainly get years of love. And so on. We also ask for books in lieu of cards. Why people get toddlers cards is still beyond me.

I think we'll also be putting the idea out there for non-material gifts such as BABYSITTING, gift certificates for the zoo, etc.

What we're going to start implementing this year (our oldest is 3 and is able to comprehend the purpose more), is doing an "out with the old, in the with new" approach. The week before Yule (we only do "Christmas" because of extended family), we go through the kids' toys and separate the broken toys (for the trash/recycling), the give-away toys ("for the little kids who aren't as lucky as you!") and the favorites. We keep the favorites and then have room for the new.

If I ever learn to be crafty, I really want take some of those broken toys and re-use them into a craft project of some kind. Make your own doll, sew a blanket for a new doll out of old/torn doll clothes. And so on.

Also, just to put in a different perspective on why we love giving and receiving gifts this time of year...its because we don't get a whole lot the rest of the year. Birthdays are pretty low key and our monthly budget is super tight. The end of the year is about the only time we have a little "extra" money (yay work bonus!) and I like to celebrate that. We don't get anything fancy, but definitely something extra to look forward to every year.

[A&A]

Originally Posted by madskye

So many interesting posts!

Someone mentioned that the aggression/resentment factor might have something to do with relationships where there is no real connection or connection is lacking. I agree--I think a lot of the issues that come up around holidays and gift giving in general have more to do with the substance or lack of, in a relationship, than the actual gift. "You don't know me!" "You don't listen to me!"

Gifts can sometimes be more about what/who someone wants you to be than who you really are.

Very true.

[journeymom]

Yooper, I identify with your experience, as our first child was my inlaw's first grandchild. Christmas got nuts.

It all got better when we quit trying to please everyone else, when I started to insist on protecting my own little family on Christmas. That holiday is supposed to be fun and pleasant, not stressful.

Originally Posted by JL83

If you want an honest answer, then yes! It is hard to understand.

My niece and nephew are the ones with the giant gift piles (1st of each gender for my parents). They're the ones that have been in tears about Christmas presents and whose parents sat there and didn't try to teach them anything about graciously accepting gifts. But those times are long gone. My parents now spend the same money they used to spend on 1 or 2 grandchildren on 10 and my kid will never be there. And that sucks. She's so far down the line of grandkids that no one could care one little bit about her on Christmas. Her birthday is pretty much the only time she gets in the spotlight at all, but she shares even that. And my family doesn't think birthdays are important.

Our position is so far from yours that I really can't understand where you are coming from. I would LOVE for my kid, just once, to be given more presents that she wants to open.

Wow, I think that's really unfortunate that you can't understand Yooper's point of view. I can actually understand both your POV and Yooper's.

[snoopy5386]

I have a hypothetical question that this kind of triggered, though I'm not necessarily asking you... how can family members who care about each other be blind to issues that are important to one another? Is this a closeness issue? Like more of a problem for families who don't live near each other and only get together on special occasions? Or maybe not a distance issue, but a relationship that's lacking a real connection? But there's an obligation to get together on the holidays even though you know nothing about your family members?

Yes and Yes. We live 3 hours from family and they don't see DD all the time. And though they still see her frequently it is always on their turf - no one comes here, no one sees how cluttered our house is, or what she does/doesn't play with. They latch on to one thing (DD likes princesses now, so she'll get tons of princess stuff this year, 2 years ago it was Elmo). Frankly Christmas depresses me now because it shows me how little my family knows me - I either get a gift I expressly picked out via relatives wishes (ie tell me what you want for xmas down to the website link I can order it from) or I get crap that I would never use/wear/etc. Hardly ever do I get a gift I actually appreciate - something that someone who really knows me put some real thought into.

I'm starting to wonder if these issues aren't directly related to the quality of the relationship between the gift givers and receivers. I mean, how can you not realize that someone doesn't have room for 3 CAR LOADS of stuff? My sister lives in a tiny 2 bedroom basement suite and barely has room for the baby gear she has now. How on Earth could I load her up with 3 cars loads of crap and then claim to care about her?

For us it is a slow build. All of parents are divorced so instead of having one big christmas we have 4. Each grandparent buys for DD like they are the only grandparent she has. I swear it never occurs to them that hey, she's going to get gifts from other relatives too. So by the end of the week we end up with way more than fits in our car. I've brought it up to them and I'm met with either "I don't care, that's not my problem it's yours." or "we'll bring it down next time we visit you or you can get the rest next time you visit us." They really just don't get it at all. Or the whole put it away and give it to her later in the year. Put it away where? In the closets that are already full of toys from last year that I have been rotating all year? Or in the attic where we are storing all of her old toys and clothes for her younger sibling? I know this year is going to be bad, but I don't even want to think about next year. Next year we'll have two kids - a 2nd DD who's bday will be within a week of DD's so we'll need NOTHING for the new baby, nothing at all, not clothes, not toys, nothing. But of course they'll still have to buy tons of crap for 2nd DD anyways. I swear I'm ready to cry just thinking about it.

I think we might also be confusing "care" with "well meaning". I think people can go WAY over board and mean well (over compensating for not seeing the kids more, not having toys as a kid themselves, etc), but with a little more care they might realize their gift(s) is not practical. I could go out and drop a load on gifts for my nephew and chalk it up to being excited, he is my first nephew after all. And I don't live near them so I could argue that it's to make up for lost opportunities to get him stuff. My heart would be in the right place. But I don't think that would be the caring thing to do KNOWING my sister's living arrangements.

Which brings me to wondering why gifts are being exchanged by people who don't know each other well? Is it because we're obligated due to that person's family rank? Like immediate family? THAT is what feels materialistic to me - that society has determined that mothers, fathers, sisters, brothers must all exchange gifts even though you don't know what the person wants or what is/isn't important to them. And if that situation is as stressful as it is for some people, why do they do it repeatedly year after year?[/QUOTE]

[North_Of_60]

Originally Posted by journeymom

Yooper, I identify with your experience, as our first child was my inlaw's first grandchild. Christmas got nuts.

It all got better when we quit trying to please everyone else, when I started to insist on protecting my own little family on Christmas. That holiday is supposed to be fun and pleasant, not stressful.

This is what I mean about some of the problems being self inflicted. I just don't understand why people continue to be a part of something that is stressful, and subsequently, unenjoyable. Going to a gathering out of obligation, and thus accepting the gifts, seems to perpetuate materialism and consumerism in and of itself. And furthermore, the idea that the way to deal with this is to actually dictate what other people buy and give, rather than opting out of the whole process together, is even more baffling.

If society has become sick in our materialistic consumerist ways, and we're imploring ways to heal that and teach our kids differently, why do people continue to do things (or go to functions/activities) where this very thing is perpetuated by giving gifts? Wouldn't that be the first thing to go, rather than picking off individual "things".

It seems more logical, to me anyway, to opt out of the process rather than dictate how people operate within that process. It's like everyone wants to have their cake and eat it too, and that's what comes off as pretentious and rude. That everyone wants to get together with people who are obviously different in their beliefs and then tell those people how to behave. I think it's made worse by the fact that you're essentially judging people's generosity and, perhaps inadvertently, calling it inadequate. Regardless of anyone's personal beliefs on toys and clutter and the environment, it never feels good to find out that what they bought for someone is not good enough or not appropriate or not appreciated. The fact that we're having a discussion on how to broach that subject without hurting people's feelings is proof of that.

So, if making someone feel inadequate for their choice of gift is the ONLY way to deal with the situation (short of putting up with it and being miserable and stressed out every year), I would have step back and carefully examine why I want to be a part of that in the first place.

From an environmental and political standpoint, I think a stronger message to one's kids about materialism and consumerism would be to first not participate in commercial holidays, rather than going around dictating what other people give to you as a gift.

If you're still reading and thinking to yourself "easier said than done".. ask yourself why you continue to take place in holiday/family get togethers if you are worried about the outcome (which is coming home with too many of the wrong gifts) and yet continue to do so, especially when you're trying to send a message to your kids that less is more. Is it a sense of obligation? Not wanting to hurt people's feelings by not attending? Why the need to spare feelings in one respect, but not in the other (in terms of addressing the issue of their choice in gifts)?

[a-sorta-fairytale]

Originally Posted by North_Of_60

This is what I mean about some of the problems being self inflicted. I just don't understand why people continue to be a part of something that is stressful, and subsequently, unenjoyable. Going to a gathering out of obligation, and thus accepting the gifts, seems to perpetuate materialism and consumerism in and of itself. And furthermore, the idea that the way to deal with this is to actually dictate what other people buy and give, rather than opting out of the whole process together, is even more baffling.

If society has become sick in our materialistic consumerist ways, and we're imploring ways to heal that and teach our kids differently, why do people continue to do things (or go to functions/activities) where this very thing is perpetuated by giving gifts? Wouldn't that be the first thing to go, rather than picking off individual "things".

It seems more logical, to me anyway, to opt out of the process rather than dictate how people operate within that process. It's like everyone wants to have their cake and eat it too, and that's what comes off as pretentious and rude. That everyone wants to get together with people who are obviously different in their beliefs and then tell those people how to behave. I think it's made worse by the fact that you're essentially judging people's generosity and, perhaps inadvertently, calling it inadequate. Regardless of anyone's personal beliefs on toys and clutter and the environment, it never feels good to find out that what they bought for someone is not good enough or not appropriate or not appreciated. The fact that we're having a discussion on how to broach that subject without hurting people's feelings is proof of that.

So, if making someone feel inadequate for their choice of gift is the ONLY way to deal with the situation (short of putting up with it and being miserable and stressed out every year), I would have step back and carefully examine why I want to be a part of that in the first place.

From an environmental and political standpoint, I think a stronger message to one's kids about materialism and consumerism would be to first not participate in commercial holidays, rather than going around dictating what other people give to you as a gift.

If you're still reading and thinking to yourself "easier said than done".. ask yourself why you continue to take place in holiday/family get togethers if you are worried about the outcome (which is coming home with too many of the wrong gifts) and yet continue to do so, especially when you're trying to send a message to your kids that less is more. Is it a sense of obligation? Not wanting to hurt people's feelings by not attending? Why the need to spare feelings in one respect, but not in the other (in terms of addressing the issue of their choice in gifts)?

I know this wasn't addressed to me as i have just finished reading the thread. But, for me, it is about family. And I WANT my kids to know great grandpa who is 80 and may not live another year and if it makes him happy to give them yet another stuffed animal or barbie or other thing we dont need/want/like/value it is more important to me to get to enjoy seeing him and keep the peace.

But, i am a horribly rude person who after the first xmas said "okay, dd has sooo much stuff so just one or two gifts is great." And for the most part it has worked. I was very careful about my wording. Since most of the various people we see during the holidays are religious and/or very family oriented i put it back to wanting it to be about the holiday and not about gifts.
DD is the first grandchild for about 8 adults and the only grandchild in town for the others. So not only does she get too many presents but she also got hand me downs from EVERYONE. Much of them lovely and in great condition. So, when given excess hand me downs we say "great, we will keep what works for us and pass along the rest. thank you."

My mom, dad, and step mom ask for a bunch of ideas, specific or general for gifts and really try and get one or two cool things they really think she would enjoy. I just had to remind them after the first xmas that dd has soooo many relatives that give her gifts. It took them out of having to fill obligated to do something crazy and it gave us all more peace.

My inlaws didnt get it. they would ask what she wanted then get a million tons of things that she didnt and it stung because she KNEW they didnt know her and felt they didnt care. When she is into karate, science, math, art, and music and they give her a bunch of barbie stuff she felt sad. They used to give each of my children a gender specific gift that they thought the kids SHOULD like. It didnt matter that dd does not like barbie, or that ds was 1 and the toy was for 5 and up - it was the right gender so it should work.
We just told them we wanted to focus on family at xmas and not exchange gifts. They think i am weird but it is so much nicer to eat a meal, play a few board games and just hang out for a bit.

I think as a culture we are generally obsessed with "more and better!" and everyone loves to have pictures of piles of gifts and have kids be amazed. But even at 5 my dd knows what the impact of too many things is on a basic level and she gets that it isnt good. If we have to gently step on a few toes then so be it. I feel it is much better to get to see those family members and to have one time had an uncomfortable conversation rather then skip out altogether or be bombarded every year.