I think that my 4 y.o. behavior is abnormal.

[adoremybabe]

I am at my wits end and near tears. I keep thinking that DS must be going through a phase and that his behavioral quirks will pass. I started thinking this so long ago that I'm not so sure anymore.

I don't even know where to start so I will just start...

Ds breaks down at the slightest thing. For instance, a piece of his paper gets ripped.... he reacts with a shrilling sob. Or if he walks into something and gets a small bump he runs all over the house sobbing and telling me to rub it. His reactions are something akin to a person being SERIOUSLY injured.

When it comes to issues that should be met with some sort of discipline I have absolutely no idea where to start. I feel like our days are constant bargaining and threats that favorite things will be taken away. That may not be the best method but so far it has been the gentlest way to get through to him.

DS doesn't interact well with our 3 mo old DS. He gives him hugs by laying on top of him, he grabs his hand roughly and then continues to walk and, this ends with DS1 pulling DS2's arm. DS1 puts his hands around DS1's head and jogs it back and forth. He is just way too rough. When DH and I tell him to back off he doesn't listen. We always have to ask him to move several times before he listens. Many times we have to physically remove him. We know that he can hear us because he tends to have a little smirk on his face while we are telling him to move.

DS also incessantly teases DD who is 2 1/2. It's almost constant and ranges from verbal teasing to DS taking away DD'S toys and running away with them.

His interaction with adults leaves a lot to be desired as well. Just today, he pretended to spit in my mother's face. When he gets things taken away for bad behavior he threatens to do things like break the window. That is the worst threat he has ever given us. He usually threatens us by saying that he is going to take all of the cookies or he is going to go outside and play all day. Most of his threats are odd but I still don't like the fact that he is threatening with such a negative tone in his voice.

I love my son with every ounce of my being, His behavior is really making it hard for me to like him. He can be such a sweetheart and such a source of joy at times. I just don't know how to handle him so that he can be a better child. I don't understand what might be causing him to act this way.

[mlec]

Hugs to you, mama. And a couple quick thoughts. You have a 4 y/o, a 2.5 y/o, and a 3 mo. old. How much one-on-one time is your ds1 getting? In my experience, that is a good investment. Maybe you can get a mother's helper to take care of the other two while you spend some time doing something meaningful w/ DS1. It could even be housework! Perhaps he would really respond to "important" work.

I am sure he needs firm but kind limits, but for example, if my older one was squashing the baby w/ a "hug" I would be removing as I calmly said, "Oh, you see that's too strong for her...she likes this way better." And then model a tender hug. I would try to just keep my tone friendly and firm and not let him see that it killed me to see the baby intentionally squashed. I read somewhere you should read good intentions into your child's behavior, to give them something to live up to, instead of down to.

FYI, I am terrible at following the advice I have here, but when I do manage to react like I want to and do these things they seem to have a positive effect.

The book "Taking Charge: Caring Discipline that Works at Home or School" you can get off Amazon....a really good book. Is positive discipline, but the child needs you to be the adult.

I would try to use true consequences not punishments. His threats to you may be a reflection of the threatening you've modeled. (This isn't meant to be mean, I do the same thing often in exasperation...I just don't think it's helpful in the end.).

Also...I think connectedness is the best remedy to misbehavior. I think if he has more positive time and attention from you, he won't need to get your time and attention in these other ways. Don't forget to speak to him in his primary love language during neutral moments! Then he will feel loved for who he is.

[mama*pisces]

Sorry to hear you are having a rough time, mama. I don't know anything about 4 year olds since I don't have one yet...but some of what you're describing sounds similar to my 3.5 yo ds. He loves his new sister and hasn't really been malicious towards her, but he does come at her at full speed to give her hugs, squeezes her tightly and often times shoves his head and half his body under her when she's in her bouncy chair, to the point where she's sitting up and almost falling over. More often than not, my requests for him to give her space are met by him ignoring me or getting more in her space, and then I find myself raising my voice.

What I'm finding is, I need a break from his intensity. He is a VERY intense child, with loads of energy to burn. Is your ds in preschool? Mine was until his school closed in October, and we're trying to find somewhere else for him for January. Him and I BOTH need it.

Is there a way you could find to go out with just him on special mommy/ds dates, so that he could have attention all to himself at least once a week? It sounds like (perhaps) he is noticing how much attention the new baby is getting, so he feels like he has to act out to get some of it back. I know my ds is definitely an attention-seeking, all eyes on me type of kid.

I hope things get easier for you guys soon.

[hipumpkins]

Check out the book, The highly sensitive child.

[mom2tatum]

It is sooo hard, I know. Battling. I wrote a post not too long ago about my 3 yo, with similar frustrations and I became enraged and really ugly more than a few times in a few weeks time. It was out of control. Please please, take this advice if nothing else - play with him. Just him. Find a way to do it. It was really hard for me - I have no family to help me, baby won't take a bottle, and my dh just started a new job and is never ever home. But, we did it. Maybe a friend to come over and play with baby and 2.5 yo while you do something of ds' choice? Maybe while others are napping or resting? Devote as much time to doing this. I am not talking about a 1 min. tickle on the couch in between other tasks, I mean really dedicate some time to it. He is needing you, I promise, that is almost always what it is based on what you are describing...It did wonders for us! Especially when it was outside play or at least some type of physical play. Then, also find time to sit and read and chat with him, and not just at bedtime - unexpected cuddle time to reconnect quietly also did wonders for our relationship. I now find that whenever I start seeing those kinds of wild, extreme not listening behaviors, he is crying out for not just attention, but true connection with me. That is part of how they communicate it to us. And instead of coming down on him with more consequences (which he is already feeling like he has gotten from less attention, I'm sure...), distract and engage him. Try it.

I just wrote this blog after attending a workshop with Lu Hannessian (Raising your child without squashing their spirit), maybe it will inspire some other things for you about being connected ... http://ourdaleylifemehimandthekids.blogspot.com/

And two books someone recommended for me were:

Playful Parenting by Lawrence Cohen - just awesome insight into the importance of play for our children and how it helps them to express themselves which is sometimes all they need and behavior improvements just follow...
Kids, Parents, Power Struggles by Mary Sheedy Kurcinka - Much more than the title - About Emotional intelligence being so important for seeing into your child's mind and knowing what will help them best to get through their days smoother.

Keep us updated. Wishing you get a break soon and start to like him even more, I sooooo know exactly what you are feeling...it's awful to feel that way towards your ds you love so much.

[jilly]

Ah yes, welcome to life with the intense, highly sensitive child. My ds1 is this kind of kid, too. I agree with previous posters that you need to keep a strong connection. Even if its just in little times to have him sit on your lap while the other two are busy, and have a little chat, thats good.

Kids like this are often very sensitive to your moods, emotions and highly reflective of your perspective of them. So if you are frustrated with him, he will feed off that frustration and it will ramp up his behavior rather than calming it. It ends up being a downward spiral. So try to remember his positive traits, and smile and laugh when he's being funny or doing something wonderful. Pick up the baby so they are safe, take a moment to calm yourself down (get a drink, walk to a different room for a moment, whatever), then come back and deal with it. This will help him and you get out of this bad cycle.

Also, think of some predictable structures you can set up (this is one of those ones I'm great at saying, but don't always do). For instance, keep some arguments to a minimum by just having the same thing happen every day. Then when he starts to react and argue, you can just say, "What do we do every day about _____?" Be predictable about it for two weeks, and the protests will diminish (although we still have the conversation every day about tv limits and juice and dessert and other things. But at least now its a quick conversation). And try as much as possible to have general rules (even if they're slightly ridiculous, like "only throw soft things"). Then you have something predictable to say. The same with consequences. Think of tangible consequences (if you use something to hit, it goes away, if you make a mess, you clean it up, if you can't control your body or temper, you go to your room until you can) and be consistent with them.

The other thing to think of at this age is to be sure you are still helping him to monitor his body. Often we start to think kids will know for themselves when they need to go to the bathroom or eat or drink, but they don't have that self awareness yet (um, and sometimes moms are just as bad). You know that pounding headache and grouchy feeling you get when you have forgotten to drink anything but coffee all morning and you just feel mad but you are actually dehydrated? Or when you haven't had a chance to go pee in two hours because you're just dealing with one chaotic situation after another? Translate that energy into a 4 yr old's body. So make sure he is eating and going to the bathroom regularly, especially when he starts to get rangy. My ds always freaks out, has a fit, gets sent to his room, and comes running out 10 seconds later to go pee or tell me he's starving hungry, and he's 5 now. Intense kids get so caught up in themselves that they don't notice body cues sometimes.

Help him become aware of his intensity and find ways to channel it. Get him outside, put paper on the wall and let him scribble it out, give him a mattress or couch to bounce on in the basement, put him in the bath to splash, read a book with him and your 2 yr old . . . anything that helps him release it without hurting others is good. Talk to him about it -- "You are letting your angry energy build up. Choose one of these activities (go outside, get a snack or do some drawing) to get rid of it, or go to your room and find something quiet to do." Eventually, he will start saying, "I need to go to my room to get rid of some angry energy, mom".

And yeah, intensity is just hard. Intense kids are exhausting. The noise and drama and energy is really difficult at this age. But just think of all the energy and passion and sensitivity that it can translate into if you can help him learn to manage it and rein it in. Hang in there, mama.

[earthmama369]

I love the books mentioned above. You might also check out The Out-of-Sync Child and The Out-of-Sync Child Has Fun. Even for my neurotypical child, some of the activities and descriptions of how to redirect physical behavior have been really, really helpful.

[Grace and Granola]

I really feel for you. I have a 4yo boy too. I also have a 2 1/2yo so I can understand that dynamic as well. DS1 is intense and sensitive like yours is. The best thing I can tell you is that it seems to be getting better. And he has been intense and sensitive for years!

Here is a link to a thread on 4yos that I found helpful:
http://www.mothering.com/discussions...705&highlight=

And here is what I wrote on that thread about what has helped us:

The one thing that has been helping ds1 is when I give him "big kid" responsiblities. I wonder if it's because they are at an age where they are not toddlers anymore and on the verge of becoming big kids. Whenever I show my ds how to do something new or ask him to help me with a task he's never been "allowed" to before, he seems to have a confidence about him that lasts at least several hours! A couple months ago, I told him he could go into the pantry and make a snack for himself and his brother, and he was floored that he could do this on his own and that I would trust him to! (I know some people probably have their kids do this much younger!) After that, he ventured into the fridge and poured himself a cup of milk and just beamed with pride that he could do that for himself. So, I've kept up with this theme and I try to find new ways for him to feel confident. He also seems to like that he can do some things that his little brother can't. I don't love that idea, but he seems to need it right now.

I also agree with the pp that said these children seem to feed off of your emotions. The more irritated I am, the worse he is. I try to start every morning with a clean slate and positive attitude, and sometimes it goes down hill fast! If it does, I find other time throughout the day to get my head on straight and ramp up the positivity--through music or 5 minutes of quiet time locked in the bathroom....whatever it takes for me to turn myself around and start fresh with ds.

We get the threats too, and I realize that he is reflecting me. No, I don't threaten to throw him out the window, but he gets: If you do X, then Y will happen. And he just fills in the blanks with his own creative ideas. And YES, he says it in the meanest tone, and that is the part I can't stand, especially when directed at his brother. I am trying to find other ways of talking with him, to curb this.

Oh, and one more thing. Does your ds1 get to have one on one time with his dad? This is HUGE with us. My dh is with the boys about 2-3 hours per day, and with two boys it's usualy chaos. It's fun, but chaos! One night after the kids were in bed, dh was stoking the fireplace and ds1 got out of bed and was with his dad at the fire. DH did not send him straight back to bed, but instead let him be there with him, talking about the fire and what he was doing. It was such a peaceful time for them. No one else was around, they didn't know I was around. DH taught ds how to use the shovel to scoop the ashes and taught him how to be safe around the fire. I could hear in ds's voice how he was treasuring that time with his daddy. Afterwards, dh told me that he thinks he needs to spend more one on one time with ds. It really is so important. With kids so close in age, it's easy just to lump them together for everything. But they really need some separate time away from each other and spending valuable time with each parent.

There are several threads on 4yos, so I think this is just a hard age. I feel like I can see the light at the end of the tunnel, but then I've got #2 right behind him!

I hope some of this helps, obviously I have alot of feelings about this age! Hugs to you mama.