Getting started with music ed . . .

[phroggies]

I saw something in another thread that triggered this--could I get some suggestions from you folks on getting started with music education? I'm looking more for theories of music development than actual curricula, etc. Right now we're playing a lot of music and singing to DS and letting him tool around on his father's synthesizer, but we have no idea how one begins actually teaching about music, aside from basic Kindermusik-ish things like clapping and dancing. There's no shortage of music knowledge in the household--DH is fairly musically gifted and knows a lot about music theory, and I was raised on classical music--but neither of us knows much about teaching it, especially to a 4-year old. I'm assuming that a very unstructured approach is best, but my son is also getting to the point at which some mastery is important to him; i.e., he's very pleased that he can recognize Offenbach's can-can theme, he'd probably be enormously proud if he could actually learn to play something, etc. But at the same time I don't want to take away the pleasure he has in dancing around to whatever CD I'm listening to (and telling me how all the songs on it are about airplanes), and he's very resistant to formal instruction, so that could happen all too easily. So books and web sites with ideas on what successful early music ed looks like would be much appreciated.

[BellinghamCrunchie]

Subbing!

We bought four of the earliest Suzuki piano books (Performance Party, Theory and Ear Training Pary, Piano Party, and Sticking with the Basics: Notes all "Book A"). They are colorful, use stickers and other activities not just on the piano, and definitely got Bean's hands on the piano. However, they don't get her playing any songs exactly. As long as they are fun, we'll do them as she desires.

I don't know much about the different ways of teaching children theory so I'm interested in the responses, as well.

[moominmamma]

An approach that sounds like it might fit very well with what you've already got going on is Alice Kay Kanack's "Musical Improvisation for Children." It very gently guides children in developing an awareness of keys, scales and modes while nurturing their intuitive response to music through improvising at the keyboard. It's perfect for 4-year-olds, IMO, with a strong story-telling element and some beautiful listening and accompaniment tracks on the CD. Amazon carries it.

Miranda

[riversmommy]

I'm interested in responses too. I don't know anything about suzuki method.

I took piano lessons beginning at age 5 and used Bastien Piano books. My teacher was very classic, sit up straight and bend those fingers! I had 1/2 hour once each week for twelve years. But I was lucky enough to have a jazz guitarist for a father and he taught me a lot about music theory, how songs are put together, how to improvise, etc. I hated practicing scales and all that boring stuff when I really just wanted to make up songs! But here's my thought on this: Music is an art form and as such, I feel it's important to develop the skills to accomplish what you want to do creatively. It may be boring to learn tonic chords and quarter notes...BUT if you have a vision of what you want to accomplish and lack the skills, it just can't physically happen!

Anyway, clapping and singing and dancing around the living room should be just like eating, IMO. No special program required. The music lessons are just a way to understand something that's already a huge part of life, like reading and writing and cooking and drawing. Sorry, I kind of went on a tangent there...

[lorrielink]

[Marimami]

When my daughter was 4 last summer, she was insistent on starting piano lessons. We were lucky that her Music Together teacher (she did MT from infancy to age 4) was willing to give it a try. She used the Faber & Faber method with her, and it worked really, really well. That teacher moved away and it took me a long time to find a teacher willing to take on a young student (DD was 5 by this point). DD asked me weekly/daily if I had found her a new teacher; it broke my heart! But, I finally did, and she uses Faber & Faber with her too, and it's a great match for her. Some days DD is able to focus entirely on her lesson, but some days they go away from the piano and focus on music theory exercises with other instruments. It's just about the perfect match for us.

I know many people praise Suzuki, but it wasn't what I wanted. We're eclectic/borderline unschoolers at heart and we honestly don't force her to practice. She's had a few embarrassing episodes where it was obvious that she hadn't practiced, and she doesn't like repeating them.

Mostly, she internalizes the lesson and music much that she works it out in her head before her fingers do anything. She told me that she "sees the music in her head" and she often sits at the piano making up her own songs. I want to help her retain that love of music far more than I want her to learn how to play proper piano. So, right now it's all very child lead. She just had a little piano performance and played "Old MacDonald" as a solo and duet with her teacher in front of a large crowd. That was a seriously big deal for my shy girl, and we just hope to foster this love!

DD has started to ask about different composers so we recently purchased "Story of Classical Music" and the two additional CDs about composers.

She absolutely loves them! They do a great job of mixing historical facts, tidbits about the composer's lives and lots of great music. So, it's not really musical theory, but it's definitely music education.

We also have these, but we haven't started using them yet so I can't comment much:
Story of the Orchestra-- http://www.amazon.com/Story-Orchestr...ref=pd_sim_m_4

Those Amazing Instruments-- http://www.amazon.com/Those-Amazing-...ref=pd_sim_b_2

Holli

[Panthira]

Originally Posted by Marimami

When my daughter was 4 last summer, she was insistent on starting piano lessons. We were lucky that her Music Together teacher (she did MT from infancy to age 4) was willing to give it a try. She used the Faber & Faber method with her, and it worked really, really well. That teacher moved away and it took me a long time to find a teacher willing to take on a young student (DD was 5 by this point). DD asked me weekly/daily if I had found her a new teacher; it broke my heart! But, I finally did, and she uses Faber & Faber with her too, and it's a great match for her. Some days DD is able to focus entirely on her lesson, but some days they go away from the piano and focus on music theory exercises with other instruments. It's just about the perfect match for us.

I know many people praise Suzuki, but it wasn't what I wanted. We're eclectic/borderline unschoolers at heart and we honestly don't force her to practice. She's had a few embarrassing episodes where it was obvious that she hadn't practiced, and she doesn't like repeating them.

Mostly, she internalizes the lesson and music much that she works it out in her head before her fingers do anything. She told me that she "sees the music in her head" and she often sits at the piano making up her own songs. I want to help her retain that love of music far more than I want her to learn how to play proper piano. So, right now it's all very child lead. She just had a little piano performance and played "Old MacDonald" as a solo and duet with her teacher in front of a large crowd. That was a seriously big deal for my shy girl, and we just hope to foster this love!

DD has started to ask about different composers so we recently purchased "Story of Classical Music" and the two additional CDs about composers.

She absolutely loves them! They do a great job of mixing historical facts, tidbits about the composer's lives and lots of great music. So, it's not really musical theory, but it's definitely music education.

We also have these, but we haven't started using them yet so I can't comment much:
Story of the Orchestra-- http://www.amazon.com/Story-Orchestr...ref=pd_sim_m_4

Those Amazing Instruments-- http://www.amazon.com/Those-Amazing-...ref=pd_sim_b_2

Holli

Thank you for this post. My 5 yr old DS is very interested in music, and he sounds a lot like your daughter. I need to go back over your post after I get some sleep, but I really appreciate the info...

[greenmamapagan]

If you're interested in ideas about music ed and developmental stuff maybe doing some reading about Kodaly
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kod%C3%A1ly_Method
and Orff
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orff_Schulwerk
would help.
I find the Kodaly solfege hand signs lots of fun with little kids. Although I adapt them to use with fixed rather than moveable DO but that's a personal preference I guess.

[Mama Shifra]

Keyboard Capers, which is available from Rainbow Resource, is a good method of teaching children beginning music theory (you'll need a keyboard or piano). You can also get an optional manipulative kit (otherwise, you'll need to make the manipulatives yourself).

Many people use Music for Little Mozarts (www.mflm.com) to teach young children piano. Unless you play piano well, you'll need to buy the CDs that go along with it. It has three volumes per level--a lesson book, a workbook, and a music discovery book (which is a music appreciation course--it could be used without the lessons. My children loved it!). There are other optional components to the course too.

[Panthira]

Huh, a quick look-up of the Faber & Faber Method gave me this site that apparently offers a teaching guide:
http://www.pianoteaching.com/guide/contents.html

I thought it might interest someone...

[phroggies]

Just a quick note while I'm taking a break from holiday prep. . .thanks for all these suggestions. There's some wonderfully rich material here and you guys have given me great leads. Much appreciation!

[Laurel]

Here's basically what I do with my children... (just so you know where I'm coming from, I have a master's in music and have taught piano and organ)

In the younger years, I base my approach on the general ideas of the Music Together program. (www.musictogether.com ) My ds and I went to Music Together classes when he was three, and I LOVE their program and think it is based on really sound theories about music development in young children. DD has never actually "done" Music Together, but we do a lot of the same stuff here at home.

So my basic philosophy is that in early childhood there are two things I'm working on helping my children with: 1) being able to keep a beat, and 2) being able to sing in tune. We do a lot of informal musical stuff, singing (TONS of singing!), dancing and movement, listening to CD's, playing simple instruments like drums and shakers, etc. I focus a lot on helping my kids to feel rhythm in their bodies. For example, even as babies, when I sing to them, I'm patting them to the beat or tapping the rhythm on their arms or legs, or dancing and swaying to the beat.

I don't really do more than this until they're around 5 or so (unless my child showed signs of being a true prodigy or something). These skills I mentioned above aren't really explicitly "taught" to young children. I provide the environment, the activities, and those skills develop organically. I wouldn't begin a child in formal lessons until these two basics were mastered or mostly mastered. (Music Together has a formal term for this, but I can't remember what it's called.)

When it comes time for piano, I go with Faber and Faber's My First Piano Adventure, which is geared toward 5-7 year-olds. I've looked at other programs, and this is the one I like the best. I did work with my ds for about a year between ages 5 and 6, but in retrospect I think I should have waited. I gave him a year off, and plan to start him back on piano after Christmas. My dd may be ready earlier, I'll probably try her around age 5.

[riversmommy]

Laurel--Thank you for your post. I can relate to your philosophy, you defined it well! Some of the other posts and another thread on Suzuki method specifically seem to overlook the value of music theory, keeping a beat and a good sense of keeping in tune. I recently performed for a party with a friend of mine who has learned violin with Suzuki method from age 3. She's 16 now. Something I noticed in her style (could just be her, not the method) is a rigidity and lack of understanding of how songs are put together. It could've just been inexperience in collaborating with another musician. But it seems I cannot over-emphasize that memorization is fun, but it ultimately cannot take you where you want to go musically speaking. There has to a rounded approach. And a good measure of music theory from a young age. That way, when the kids turn 15 and want to start a band, they will know how to go about it. I'll send them to the garage and let them make some noise!

I'm going to check out Faber and Faber now...

[Laurel]

Just curious what you mean by music theory? I don't teach theory in the formal sense (note names, note values/counting, written stuff, etc.) until a child begins piano, which would be typically around age 6-7. In the early years, I set the stage for this by giving them the experience of feeling and hearing those things through lots of informal interactions. Counting and giving number names to beats is going to make a lot more sense if a child can feel those beats and feel the differences between quarter notes and eighth notes.

To me, theory is the written work, the more academic side of learning music. I do think it's extremely important... but not too early.

[riversmommy]

Hmmm...really good question. I guess in my mind, music theory is about how songs are put together, as a whole. For instance, when I was six, I made up this little melody and wanted to put something with it for my left hand. So, my dad showed me that in any given song(rock, pop, blues, or country) there are really only a few common patterns. Anyway, I understood that I was playing in C because I think every song I learned to play in the beginning was in C(my thumb was always on C). He asked what the 4th note was, F, and the 5th note, G. So he told me to play C, F, and G with my left hand according to how I felt it sounded best. And lo and behold! every Neil Young song ever written! Eventually, I could play chords and bass lines and things, but I think the general idea of something like a 1-4-5 chord progression helped.

I feel like a young child (5-7) can understand patterns and numbers. And even now in my mind music is all patterns and numbers. I didn't think of all of that as a child, I just knew I wanted to "make it sound right" and I wanted to know how to do it quickly! i.e if you want a chord to sound sad or scary, flat the third. Or I wanted to know WHY music sounded like it did. Why is a waltz lilting and a dance-beat driving? A child that can count to 3 or 4 can understand why....I think. I hope. Right now we're singing a whole lot of Old MacDonald and Ram-Sam-Sam and my oldest is only 5. I think I will probably be improvising as time goes on...no pun intended!

[greenthumb3]

I like these sites. There is some great stuff out there!

http://www.makingmusicfun.net/
The music library is fun (we like "meet the composer" and "meet the orchestra") and there are free worksheets for theory if that is your thing. There is also a music theory game.

http://www.classicsforkids.com/
Kinda fun

Carnegie Hall listening adventures for kids
http://www.carnegiehall.org/article/...dventures.html





We "study" music by listening often to various styles (the more, the merrier, ya never know what they will like!) and composers at home (I like J.S. Bach and old time fiddling so those are often on). I have focused on one composer at a time, just checking out a few books from the library in the children's section and checking out a CD from the same composer to listen to. We learned a lot that way, and one thing led to another, and I wanted to know more about the history of music, and what those "periods" are all about; there are some easy and great resources at libraries . The kids are just along for the ride and they pick up more than I realize. Live performances are good, if you can get to them (community groups can be low cost and just as interesting) Oh, and lots of fun music, great kids' stuff, a wider variety the better!

Have musical instruments around for children to pick up and do themselves, harmonica and lap harps are a great start and we have those and easy books for when the kids want to know "more". Lap harps are an easy way to introduce "reading" music and following along. My 7 year old picked it up quite easily on his own. I also have a good quality keyboard and violin and play them for the kids, and they want to be involved right away and given a chance to try it out. It's a process, and much of it is internal for them. My goal is to be able to play some simple songs on the guitar so we can sing together--this is also important to me as it shows my kids how one can learn to play an instrument and how much joy it can bring, even if simply played. I will support them as far as their desires take them!

My advice to you is to keep music alive in your home and if your child is so inclined, he will follow right into what makes his heart glad, which is what music is all about, whether he ends up playing on a famous stage, strumming a guitar for himself or at a coffee shop or just being an enthusiastic listener. Even if he learns just to sing, or to record music with the equipment you have at home, it just opens the door to further possibilities down the road!

[Marimami]

DD definitely is learning the notes, etc. It started out with the fingers numbered 1-5 but she quickly moved on to learning all the keys and their associated notes. She can read simple music notation and is playing in middle C now. She is just 5 (in Sept) and has a high intrinsic motivation. She is the youngest student her teacher has--I think the others are all 7+.

She is suddenly playing "Good King Wenceslas" and we're not sure if she read the music or figured out the notes. No one taught it to her, and she's not telling either...

Holli