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Taking a 20% hour and pay cut... on purpose. Gulp.

post #1 of 42
Thread Starter 
Sorry this is so long! I am a little nervous, a bit scared, and would love some ideas and feedback.

We've FINALLY, after 7+ years of marriage, gotten to a point of financial stability.
We've cut back our spending, spent the last three years paying off the $17K of consumer and moving debt we'd managed to rack up over first part of our marriage. With the exception of my very low-interest student loan we are debt free now. We have 3 months of expenses saved. I have a strong budget in place that we have been following with good success. We've discovered a lot of the "leaks" in our spending (too much family travel and dining out) and have done a good job in plugging them up.

I am a SAHP, and my husband is the money earner. He is our sole income right now. He has a good job with the State, a steady one, and has very little chance of being laid off. We are lucky enough to have great benefits, vacation time, nice co-workers. We feel very fortunate to have this job.

Despite that, my husband has had a VERY hard time with his job for the past 8 years. It is a cubical office job (think Office Space) and does not suit his personality at all. He finds it excruciating to be inside in his box from 8am to 5pm. it is worse for the four months of mid-winter: due to our location it is dark when he leaves work and dark when he comes home. He literally spends all day under florescent lights and sees daylight (mostly rain, actually) for an hour sometimes on his 3X a week lunch run. It wrecks havoc with his mental health. By the time he gets home at 5:30pm he is so worn out that it is all he can do to stay awake until 9pm. Then back up at 6am to get ready to run/cycle in to work and start over at 8am.

He has been doing this job for us, his family, at the expense of his own mental health and well being. I am not qualified to do anything that would make enough money to live on, and he wants to support my dream of being a SAHP. He keeps with this job that is so hard for him for us: to provide us with a good income and great health benefits. If our daughter and I were not in the picture he would have most certainly picked another job eight years ago. Every day is a struggle for him, every winter is horrible. He feels like he is watching his life dribble away, looking on while it passes him by. The things he values most in life: spending time with us, enjoying the outdoors, living life and laughing... he feels like he just gets to get a taste of that on the weekend before trudging back to work.

Over the years we've tried to brainstorm a way out. Me going back to school. Him going back to school. Living with family on the cheap. Staffing at retreat centers for a few years. At the end of the day we decided that school was too expensive for him to go (we'd have to take out loans for living expenses), I'd need to go back for 3-6 years to end up with a decent paying job (and we need to make a change right now), and the retreat center idea just won't work long term. We've resigned ourselves to Aaron staying in this job indefinitely, and he's been looking at the future as one big bleak jail sentence.

But... a glimmer of hope. Last summer approached his boss with the request that he reduce his hours and salary by 20%. From 40 hours a week to 32. Working four 8-hour days and with Wednesdays off. they took some time to think about it, and just yesterday told him that YES, he can reduce hours starting in January!

This is BIG for my husband. This will probably make all the difference for him: the difference between feeling like he is selling his life and getting to live some of it. It means he gets to walk his daughter to school and pick her up once a week, get to see her face as she excitedly tells him what she did that day. It means we get time alone as a couple once a week, time to relax, nap, play together like we used to. He thinks that with this change he can do this job forever and be happy about it.

BUT... a 20% loss in income! Oh yikes, this is so scary to me! We have finally gotten our financial lives together, are finally out of debt and are taking those wobbly baby steps to living a financially sustainable life. According to our budget we can make this work, even save maybe up to $5,000 a year (barring medical emergency or the car blowing up), but it is going to be so very tight. I am putting on a big happy face for my awesome husband because he needs this and deserves this hour reduction, but inside I am biting my nails and am scared as heck that we won't be able to make it work long term.

It works right now when we are living in a one bedroom place, but what happens in a couple years when our daughter needs her own room? Our rent cost will jump up $300-$500 a month!
And what about the house we've dreamed of owning? A mortgage here will run us $900 a month beyond what we are paying in rent now, plus those pesky home-owning expenses. We could afford a home on our current salary, but we have no chance of doing so on the reduced salary.
We've also dreamed of buying land and building a home. With my husband's current salary (and our shiny new budgeting skills) we could save enough for land in 3-4 years, save more and then take out a building loan a few years later. With his new reduced salary it would take us 10 years to save the same amount for land, and longer yet to get the 20% down we'd need for the building loan.

Starting next year when our daughter is in full time school it will be possible for me to work part time, but I won't be bringing home more that $650 a month or so. It is important to us that I be there to take our daughter to school and be there when she gets home. That will make up some of the lost income, but not a whole lot, especially when we need to find a bigger rental.

Sigh. I am being super supportive of this hour reduction, and I am truly ecstatic for my husband but I can't squelch these fears and worries. I feel like we are weighing our future financial and housing stability against our current happiness and mental health.

Are we being crazy by doing this? is it the right thing to do, taking the 20% cut in hours and pay? My heart tells me we should go for it, but my brain is scared to death!
post #2 of 42
Go with your gut. You've got a sensible head on your shoulders, and you guys have a plan. IME, when you have a plan, things just tend to happen. Whether you like it or not, and at least for us, even things like unemployment have turned out to be a blessing in disguise.

I'm totally with you on freaking out about a house/cost of housing. We're moving from our inexpensive little rut to a major metro area at some point in the next few months, and I. am. terrified. Even rent will be double our current mortgage (and let's not even get into how much a mortgage would be!). But since you guys have your financial ducks in a row so to speak, that one day off may even turn into a way for you guys to find an alternative way to make more money. Maybe figuring out how to be a tour guide part of the year in local wilderness areas? White water rafting guides? All kinds of nifty outdoorsy things could happen that would make it seem like you're playing all day instead of working, especially because of the area where you live.

Mental health. I'm totally with you on that. Part of why hubby's unemployment was a blessing. His job was basically trying to suck out his soul, and at 6-7 days a week and 8-14 hours a day the last grueling 6-8 months, he hardly even got to see his own family. We got a lot of family time together for several months this summer (which we all desperately needed), he got to heal a bit mentally and physically from that blasted job, and he found what seems to be a much better fit job-wise for him (it's only been a week so far, but even then, huge difference!). And yes, what freaks me out is that we're making almost the same amount of money (just a smidge more), have a family of soon-to-be-6, and are moving to a much higher COL area. Same train of thought I believe. But we'll make it work somehow, especially if hubby's happy.
post #3 of 42
Sounds like you have your budget worked out really well. Perhaps if it is too difficult financially, or will become that way after some time, your husband could use that extra day to prepare for a career he likes. Like volunteering somewhere or taking a class or something???
I think there is something to be said for making a change that will improve his mental health. Good for you and your dh for figuring out a way to do it!
post #4 of 42
I believe, without a doubt, that you are making the best decision for your family and especially for your husband (given all the info you have provided). If that were an option for my family, we'd jump on it!

I would encourage you not to be too overwhelmed about what could happen 2, 3, 10 years from now. You'll get nowhere with that. Instead focus on the immediate. It might take you a few weeks/months to figure out a new budget that works with the new schedule but it's obvious you guys are on top of your finances now...I'm sure you'll do great!
post #5 of 42
ti sounjds wonjderful. i would ask though, if the reduction in pay really concernes you, could he work 4 TEN hour days, and still take Wednesday off, but still work a full 40-hour week, and therefore still bring home his full salary? I knwo it sounds hard, but honestly, once you're already at work for 8 hours, adding 2 on doesn't seem like much, compared to an entire extra day off.

if you really want to earn some money, you could start looking for something, or start going back to school part time. There are actually a lot of short-term degrees that can pay well, like nursing or allied health fields, for example, which are generally going to be 1-2 year programs. Heck, when things are tight here, DH picks up a paper route. It's about $75 per week, and the hours are 4-6 am, which doesn't interfere with family life.

But, i think the plan sounds wonderful. It sounds like your family will do wonderfully on it. Have you looked into whether or not you might qualify for any benefits because of the reduction? perhaps your tax rate will lower? Or you might get more EITC? Possibly even WIC benefits or something like that?

Also, i assume you have made sure that going down to 32 hours aon't adversely affect his work bennies or anything, right? Especially if that is your insurance? My eveil work just upped their requirement to be considered a "full time" employee from 32 to 36 hours per week, so anyone who works less than 36 doesn't get insurance or sick leave, any benefits at all.
post #6 of 42
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobandjess99 View Post
ti sounjds wonjderful. i would ask though, if the reduction in pay really concernes you, could he work 4 TEN hour days, and still take Wednesday off, but still work a full 40-hour week, and therefore still bring home his full salary? I knwo it sounds hard, but honestly, once you're already at work for 8 hours, adding 2 on doesn't seem like much, compared to an entire extra day off.

Also, i assume you have made sure that going down to 32 hours aon't adversely affect his work bennies or anything, right? Especially if that is your insurance? My eveil work just upped their requirement to be considered a "fulol time" employee from 32 to 236 hours per week, so anyone who works les sthan 36 doesn't get insurance or sick leave, any benefits at all.
He has tried the four 10 hour days... it nearly killed him! He gave it a go for a few months but by the end of the work day he was so exhausted and brain-fried that he didn't get a thing done for the last two hours of the day. Headaches from staring at a screen ten hours, up at 5:30am and home at 6:30pm and ready for bed...He was totally useless at home, all he could do was fall in bed and sleep. His day off mid-week was spent trying to recover from the extra long days. Its interesting; I've seen many people that can easily pull a ten hour day... he just isn't one of them. If he had an hour nap from 1-2pm he'd be fine, but he can't go a whole stretch like that at once.

As far as benefits go we are lucky. I think when you work for our State you get benefits as long as you work 11 hours a week or something like that.
post #7 of 42
As long as you can afford your bills now, I think you are making the right decision for your family. I would try not to worry about those what-ifs, and take each situation as they come. Even if you only make $650 a month working part time after your child is in school, it will still cover the $300-$500 additional rent for a larger place.
post #8 of 42
this probably wont be real popular here but I think your husband should suck it up a little. Being an adult means that you have to work and he;s not even working THAT hard, i mean he;s home at 530? When you have 1 parent stay home nowadays one needs to work REALLY hard to make that happen in most cases it seems.

I mean what if you said being a sahm is depressing you and so you want to only work 8 -5, 4 days a week and then at night you will get a nanny and 1 day a week you will go shopping and go to the movies, and after 5 you do your thing too without the kdis..

I know its not extremely helpful and I think its really great that you are empathetic and you are an amazing wife. I want the best for my dh toobut it kind of makes me resentful when he starts to say i hate my job its too hard etc etc I want a change, well ok I can work, NO i want you home with dd, ok well ummm It really sucks I think the way our society is that does not inable people to live off one income. working 8 - 5 is A LOT and its HARD and it sucks

Anyway the conclusion dh and I came to is that he will work less hours and we will just make it work, take EVERYTHING out that we can out of our spending, cause hsi well being is more important than having more than our needs met and me being home with dd is our number 1 priority. We are able to make that work, not everyone is, depending on col area, income, education, etc


Anyway I think its areally good choice too I guess i just wanted to speak up for YOU, Your job is hard too the whole "dream" of being a sahm thing gets me on my soapbox sorry
post #9 of 42
If it works in your budget then go for it.

When your dd goes to school full time then you could always go to school then, you could even take 1-2 classes now to have a smaller workload then.

Also, based on what you described of your DH I'd look into SAD & getting a sunlamp for him at work.
post #10 of 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by yukookoo View Post
this probably wont be real popular here but I think your husband should suck it up a little. Being an adult means that you have to work and he's not even working THAT hard, i mean he's home at 530? When you have 1 parent stay home nowadays one needs to work REALLY hard to make that happen in most cases it seems.

post #11 of 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by yukookoo View Post
this probably wont be real popular here but I think your husband should suck it up a little. Being an adult means that you have to work and he;s not even working THAT hard, i mean he;s home at 530?
Sorry, but I have to agree with this. My husband works 55 hours a week, on average and never complains. His job is not one that he loves, but one that he has been doing for 20 years. He's bored, but he's happy to support the family, allowing me to stay home and homeschool our 8 and 10 year olds. Sure, he'd LOVE to have a fun job but fun jobs don't tend to pay.

The main thing is that he can see the end..one day he will retire and man, are we going to have a fantastic life then!!! And he enjoys weekends and evenings with the kids and myself.


If your husband is THAT drained simply by working a desk job, has he spoken to a doctor? There are full spectrum lamps that he could purchase and put on his desk to help him with the drain of the fluorescent bulbs. Perhaps he has a vitamin deficiency and that is causing his drain. Working only 32 hours a week is...well....hmmm......
post #12 of 42
maybe he could try it for a few months and then go back full time, if need be?
post #13 of 42
In this economy, I would be very hesitant to prove to my boss that I wasn't needed at the workplace full-time. If, god forbid, it came time to do layoffs, I think a reduced hours person would likely be let go before a full-timer.

And to be gone an entire day midweek? I'm afraid I'd come to not be included in projects or plans because I'm not there when everyone else is.

If you can save $5000/yr after a 20% cut, could you save around $7000/yr on a full salary? That difference goes a long way toward firming up your newfound financial stability.

I would also be concerned about reduced benefits including insurance, retirement contribution, etc. People I know who've gone on reduced hours get a proportionate reduction in all those things, too.

If he were my hub/friend/brother/whatever, I would counsel him VERY strongly to use these newly free 8 hours to get additional training, start a biz, take a class, something that will move him along at his current company or at a new job.

Sorry to be a killjoy, but I wouldn't do it in these times.
post #14 of 42
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by yukookoo View Post
this probably wont be real popular here but I think your husband should suck it up a little. Being an adult means that you have to work and he;s not even working THAT hard, i mean he;s home at 530? When you have 1 parent stay home nowadays one needs to work REALLY hard to make that happen in most cases it seems...Anyway I think its areally good choice too I guess i just wanted to speak up for YOU, Your job is hard too the whole "dream" of being a sahm thing gets me on my soapbox sorry
I would like to say that no matter how hard a time my husband has had with his job he has ALWAYS claimed that I have the much harder one as a SAHP, and lets me know every single day how much he appreciates what I do for our daughter and our family. The times that I have been close to losing it, going through depression, or have just been so very tired he has always come trough in a huge way: figuring out how to take extended time off when our daughter was a newborn, taking vacation time to take care of me when I need a break, staying up all night with our daughter when she is sick even though he has work in the morning so I can get some much needed rest, being supportive when I go on yet another trip out of town without him while he works.. he is the best!

The difference between what we do and how we feel about our work is this: I have always wanted to be a SAHP. Even when it is hard I know that it is what i want to do, it is something that I believe so strongly in. That gets me through the hard times.
My husband never wanted to be a software developer. The only thing he likes about it is that it supports our family and my ability to be the SAHP.

Quote:
Sorry, but I have to agree with this. My husband works 55 hours a week, on average and never complains. His job is not one that he loves, but one that he has been doing for 20 years. He's bored, but he's happy to support the family, allowing me to stay home and homeschool our 8 and 10 year olds. Sure, he'd LOVE to have a fun job but fun jobs don't tend to pay...
(snip)
If your husband is THAT drained simply by working a desk job, has he spoken to a doctor? There are full spectrum lamps that he could purchase and put on his desk to help him with the drain of the fluorescent bulbs. Perhaps he has a vitamin deficiency and that is causing his drain. Working only 32 hours a week is...well....hmmm......
I get what you are saying, but... its not that simple. My husband is not lazy or a work shirker. I really believe that is is the simple matter that he is doing something that he is not meant to be doing. My husband is a super hard worker... especially physically. He NEEDS to move his body. Not everyone is built to sit behind a desk. Heck, some of his co-workers are absolutely energized after a long day of coding. Unfortunately he is just not one of those people. Sitting still all day is agonizing for him.

We've tried so many things... having him run to work, cycle to work, run on his lunch breaks... it is just not enough. He needs to work hard physically, sleep for an hour, and then work hard again. If he could start some kind of physical work at 7am, work through till lunch, eat, nap an hour, and then work again till 5pm he'd be able to do his 8 hours or more happily. He just can't handle the body and mind numbing task of sitting for 8-9 hours indoors in front of a computer screen.

We've talked about getting him an appointment with a doctor, getting him screened for depression. But he is not willing to drug himself to tolerate his job, not willing to take medicines with side effects that will help him sit in front of the screen eight hours a day. Can't say as I blame him, since he shows no signs of depression once he gets three or more days off of work.

If we'd known this when he started we would never have went down this career path. Ah, hindsight... :-) He would have gone into some kind of work that used his body as well as his brain. But it is pretty late in the game for that, so we're trying to make our current situation fit his needs as well as the family's needs.

I completely understand the "you need to suck it up for your family" argument. He's been doing that for over seven years. He has worked hard and supported us doing something he doesn't like even though it has been hard on him physically and especially mentally.
With this change he is definitely not saying, "The heck with my family responsibilities, I'm going to do what I want and you can figure out how to make it work!" and letting us hang. Even by cutting his hours down to 32 a week he will still be able to fully support us. We still get great health insurance, retirement, vacation, and sick time... and we'll also have a healthier father and husband who has more energy, more life, and more time with us.

And we will all benefit from this change, not just him: our daughter will get more "papa time," and he and I will get the day of alone time and romance we've been craving for so long. :-)
post #15 of 42
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by goldfishkate View Post
As long as you can afford your bills now, I think you are making the right decision for your family. I would try not to worry about those what-ifs, and take each situation as they come. Even if you only make $650 a month working part time after your child is in school, it will still cover the $300-$500 additional rent for a larger place.
Thanks for this reminder! The "what-ifs" are my personal hang-up. I am constantly projecting into the future, getting stressed out over scenarios... My family is always reminding me to calm down, consider the future in a healthy way, but live in the NOW!
post #16 of 42
outside of the usa, a 36 hour week would be perfectly normal.
post #17 of 42
~This is my opinion based on personal experience~

OP, if you believe that taking a 20% pay cut will not effect your family in any way, go for it.

But I am in the midst of living with a husband who did something quite similar, and I am miserable, unhappy, and about to explode at him with anger because he brings home less money. I could really care less about him wanting reduced work hours, or a more consistent work environment. He is a man, and his responsibility is to support our family.

On paper an income reduction seemed possible, but in real life it is a nightmare.

Whenever we are able to save a sizeable amount of money, "something" happens. I am constantly on edge and annoyed that I can't do what I want to do for myself, my family and my son because my husband, in my eyes, is too lazy to work a job that will benefit us the way I desire.

I am in school and I bring home about $700 a month. I am beyond resentful, that my paltry 10 hour a week income is used to pay household expenses.

My anger is not worth his reducation in income and hours.

OP, maybe your experience will prove positive. Mine, has not.
post #18 of 42
I would opt for the change but my circumstances are different in that I do have the ability to earn a significant amount of money. Many years ago, early in my marriage my dh had a job that was stressful yet was financially rewarding. It meant I did not have to work (I was in school at the time) but it created havoc in our lives. Eventually he left and it all worked out. Yes, we had some bumps along with the way and some financial challenges but we actually were able to grow closer together.

I get the argument that you have to suck it up, but 7 years at a job that is sucking the life out of you is pretty bad. I personally would not want to be in that situation nor would I want to ask my partner to be in that place either. Life is too short to be stuck in work that drains you. If you have a plan in place to ensure that you can handle all your living costs but also work on backup plans (schooling, etc) I say go for it.
post #19 of 42
From the work environment you are describing it sounds like your poor dh has a severe case of SAD and is really being a champ at powering through it. He doesn't want meds to make it work but would he be opposed to Vit D shots -since he must surely have a bad deficiency from lack of sunlight- and a sun lamp for his desk? I would definitely support this change even if it did mean adjustments and sacrifice for the family.
post #20 of 42
We did something similar. We were a little nervous but it's been over a year (and through the roughest economic times) and it's been great for us.

I think "sucking it up" is necessary sometimes but I think our generation is challenging how necessary it really is. We're making different choices. We're emphasizing family more, having a life that is not just get up, go to work, come home, fall into bed. That's the life my father worked, and I don't care for it.

My DH would in a second "suck it up" if needed, but we don't need it. We prefer to choose family and time over money. Of course we pay all of our bills, that's a big part of our values. But I don't see why my DH has to kill himself so we can have a big wad in the bank, when he can be with his daughter and wife so much more.

It is a bit of a risk, though, since if circumstances changed we might wish we had more saved up. So I admit it's not a guarantee or anything. But I think it's about priorities, and some people prioritize money and others prioritize other things.
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