Phonics and LD's?

[mykdsmomy]

My ds5 has severe learning disabilities (along with a long list of alphabet soup dx's). He has severe behavioral challenges as a result of these.
We started K12 a few weeks ago and I'm not thrilled. I knew I wouldn't be but we wanted to use it for the services we could get (speech, OT).

He is not interested in phonics AT ALL. He likes to sit for stories (which is a far cry from where we were a few years ago when he hated books). He also likes to "copy words" on his white board. He copies things off of the grocery sale papers...the other day he wrote "Ralphs has it!" (Kroger). He then asked me what he wrote

Anyway, how important is phonics? Does he need it to learn how to read since he has a significant learning disability? (He has FAS and tends to have a really hard time remembering things he's learned. He needs TONS of repetition and structure).

Is there a more creative way to teach phonics if it is necessary for reading?

(K12 uses PhonicsWorks). Thanks in advance

[farmkids42morrow]

Well, in my experience phonics is the best way to help a child with difficulties to be able to read. My one son was not interested in "schooly" reading/phonics lessons. But he loves the LeapFrog Learning videos. It's helped me too - I can remind him of the rules easily by reciting a few lines from the songs he memorized. I honestly don't know if he would have learned to read without these great videos; some kids just can't learn by being told, they need to see & sing and all that - and I'm just not smart enough to make up all that stuff on my own. He is about to turn 9 and is still a struggling reader, but he is improving.

[mykdsmomy]

Thank you so much for the input I'm going to borrow those videos from a friend of mine
My son is the same way when it comes to learning. He needs multi-sensory input to learn.

He seems most interested in videos and music so I think that's the road we need to go down. Thanks again

[Roxswood]

My dd was enjoying reading the www.progressivephonics.com books online. I think she loves that she only has to read the red words lol but we still get to giggle at the silly stories. I don't know anything about learning disabilities, sorry, but the books are free to download so you could look anyway.

[ikesmom]

When my ds was 6 we tried a lot of different things and most involved phonics. It just took time..there was no magic answer. He did enjoy Starfall.com and Reading A to Z. You could ask if you can get it for free from the charter. It took my ds a long time to learn his letters and numbers. He really disliked anything written on paper. I sang a lot of songs and we went to as many toddler programs as we could. He liked the physical movement and interaction enough to pay attention. I am not sure how the K-12 works for that ..I heard that they use the previous year goals for LD kidos.

[earthmama369]

One thing our speech therapist told us to be careful of with ds is to really isolate the sounds; that phonological awareness, moreso than phonics, was very important for learning how to read. So instead of saying "D says duh" we say "D says d" and really isolate that sound. The accuracy in sounding out the letters has helped ds a lot.

[chaos_pie]

Phonics is very, very important. It is simply not possible to learn every single word by sight. I wish I had some awesome resource but I feel like we have just cobbled together resources. However, in the end, sequential, hands-on and games were our mainstay until about 8yo, along with constant read-aloud books (either by me or audio). Then we began more formal work when ds had more ability to stay focused and had really begun to internalize all the rudiments.

One place to start is Explode the Code. It has small lessons, and then you can play games based on those words using scrabble tiles to reach mastery (cat, swap an r tile, what word? rat! another fun version is let your child do the letter tiles and you guess, and you guess completely wrong...laughter ensues when the child tells you what the real word is--may not work for all kids but it did for mine when he was little).

Verticy, a branch of Calvert, has a curriculum for language-based differences which has an Orton-Gillingham method for working on phonics. I see that they don't have anything until 3rd grade. For my dyslexic child, we have been happy with this approach. It is supplied to us through our virtual academy.

EPS publishing has many additional resources.

Finally, with a drs. confirmation, you can get a free one year subscription to Resources for the Blind and Dyslexic (www.rfbd.org) that has gazillions of download-able audio books since you say that your son will listen to books (Download and listen on the computer with WMA or you can download to a portable MP3 player....if you need more technical details if you go this route PM me, we have finally gotten this all figured out).

[Jennifer Z]

I am teaching a child with Autism, so I know what a challenge it is to find proper curriculum, and you will likely go through some hit and miss. I hate, hate, hate K12. Their only solution for LD kids is to either make all of the visual supports yourself, or just complete a portion of the work, or to go back a year in standards. None of them are a good solution IMO.

I really liked Headsprout. It is pricey, but you can often find discount codes online for it. We did that with our son and plan on starting our dd on it within the next few months (want to do it right away, but Christmas is biting into that right now). DD is typically developing, mostly, but has some serious phonological awareness issues and I know that the Headsprout really helps that. It also does a decent job of having better sound effects for getting something right than it does for getting something wrong, which can be a real problem with educational software. (and makes him want to hear the weird "wrong" sound, so he purposefully answers wrong)

The Letter Factory videos were great for him too.

The headsprout videos actually seemed to help his speech right along with the reading stuff, so that was a nice surprising bonus. In January they are starting a Reading Comprehension program that picks up where the Phonics one left off, and I am going to do that too. My son is more hyperlexic, so the actual reading part (word attack...stuff like that) was good, but his comprehension is rather dismal. I look forward to seeing if that component is as good as the first program. It looks really good, so I am hopeful.

Another thing that helped with some of the reading skills stuff is those books where they have a picture with a word every few words. I know there were a bunch of "Dora the Explorer" (his obsession at the time) ones back then, and they were adding more and more, so there is probably a pretty good collection of them. They teach how to follow (left-right) and how to process through a book, along with giving some confidence with reading success.

Just as a side note, the other two curriculum that we found success with were Miquon for Math (also like Singapore), and Handwriting without Tears.

eta: I haven't seen K12's phonics stuff, I just started him this fall on 2nd grade stuff and it was NOT a good fit, either for him or me.

Now that we are back to homeschooling "our way", we tend to do "schooly" structured teaching for a lot of Language Arts (although I often disguise a chunk of it, there are other things that need to be done in a more structured way) and Math. Everything else leans towards child-led/unschooling and life skills. (skills that many kids have by the time they exit their toddler years, but he is still struggling with, like brushing hair and teeth properly). We use his current obsessions as jumping off points for Science, Social Studies and the Arts.

[mykdsmomy]

Thank you all so much! You have given me some great ideas/resources.

We had our "entrance" IEP (phone conference) with K12 today. It was really hard because Boo was literally melting down in the background and I was trying to get his services squared away. I am realizing that K12 is not going to be a very good fit for him right now. Unfortunately, we need it (for now) for the speech and OT services that it will provide.

My biggest peeve with it right now, however, is that I can't get Boo to sit for any lesson. I need to get super-extra-uber-creative! He will not sit for "lessons" so we are doing what we can but I know it won't be "enough" to satisfy K12's enrollment guidelines.

Enrolling him back in the public school system is not an option right now. He is not ready for that type of rigorous academics however he needs the structure and security that "traditional" school brings so we're trying to make this happen at home.

Sorry for rambling. All that to say, thank you all, and I'm sure we'll be hanging out here a lot

[ikesmom]

I am not sure how the law is where you live , but here we could still receive services from the district even if we homeschool. I didn't choose that route because part of the reason I pulled ds out of school was because he wasn't getting his time with the therapists...a measly 3o min a week and they couldn't manage even that. They tried to claim he no longer needed or qualified for much time..but he could hardly read and his writing was completely illegible.

I chose to hunt and peck my own curriculum for the main reason that I already know what ds could benefit from. I don't want to spend time learning geometry if he hasn't mastered counting money. He can actually read pretty well we discovered..that is if he is able to choose the books .

I would try to search homeschool groups in your area and try to connect with someone who has child or children with needs. They may be able to share some of the resources available in your area.

[chaos_pie]

I remembered another resource that we used at the younger ages called "Reading Reflex" (can find used on Amazon). It is a book that has different games for learning phonics, each lesson very short. A good tip that I got at MDC was to buy 2 books so that you can cut out all the letter tiles/ games from one of the books (otherwise you will be running out to make a lot of xeroxs).

[Jennifer Z]

I think somebody else mentioned it, but Starfall is good too, and it's free.

Some games that would be good:
http://www.educationallearninggames....undtooning.asp
http://www.educationallearninggames....with-rhyme.asp

and, if you want to look at all of their phonics games:
http://www.educationallearninggames....&btnSearch.y=0

The website, in general, is a great resource for interesting games.

Another website that I get a lot of things from (I have a son with language issues and a daughter with phonological awareness and articulation issues) is meant for Speech Language Pathologists & Teachers. It isn't the best laid out site, but it has a LOT of neat stuff.

click on products, then phonological awareness (or other category that looks interesting): http://www.superduperinc.com/

[luv-my-boys]

Originally Posted by mykdsmomy

He will not sit for "lessons" so we are doing what we can but I know it won't be "enough" to satisfy K12's enrollment guidelines.

This is something that can be addressed in his IEP that way you still are within the guidlines of enrollement. If he gets an official dx than the IEP would accomodate this so that you can have more time to accomplish the curriculum. I actually explored this for my other son who has a medical dx because I thought I would stay with k-12 for all the boys and wanted to see what their policy was regarding that very issue since I knew that it would come up if we decided to hs that child as well.

as for the phonics, we did k-12 last yr and my son who did it HATED the phonics program (I believe its the same one) frankly even I found it boring We ended up dropping from k-12 for other reasons. and now we are doing explore the code and some other phonic workbooks. Also I bought a toy from leapfrog that has the alphabet and when you place it on this pad it sings a litle jingle like " D says Duh, D say duh every letter makes a sound..." it has really helped Ds becasue the songs are catchy. I have found him singing the songs to figure out the sounds and we make up games where I have him guess what the sound will be and then we place the letter down and here the sound

http://www.toysrus.com/product/index...ductId=2266036

[mykdsmomy]

Thanks again, mamas!
Jennifer, I registered at that site and am printing up some of their free printouts

luv-my-boys, I am waiting to hear from Boo's SpEd teacher. I want to talk to her about his progress and how we can manipulate the curriculum to best fit Boo. I just feel (from what I've heard) that K12 is really cracking down on progress all around. My older son has low vision and we have been fighting to get him to be able to turn in his work written in braille or on audio tape. So far, they have been pretty strict and have made him "write" in his own writing (he also has mild CP and it seems to affect his ability to write legibly.

Also, we keep getting reminded by K12 that they are a "voluntary" public school...sort of like "listen, we are doing you a favor by giving you services...we could kick you back to your local public school if you give us too much trouble"...sort of thing.

[luv-my-boys]

Originally Posted by mykdsmomy

Thanks again, mamas!
Jennifer, I registered at that site and am printing up some of their free printouts

luv-my-boys, I am waiting to hear from Boo's SpEd teacher. I want to talk to her about his progress and how we can manipulate the curriculum to best fit Boo. I just feel (from what I've heard) that K12 is really cracking down on progress all around. My older son has low vision and we have been fighting to get him to be able to turn in his work written in braille or on audio tape. So far, they have been pretty strict and have made him "write" in his own writing (he also has mild CP and it seems to affect his ability to write legibly.

Also, we keep getting reminded by K12 that they are a "voluntary" public school...sort of like "listen, we are doing you a favor by giving you services...we could kick you back to your local public school if you give us too much trouble"...sort of thing.

Yeah I had issues specifically with our assigned para-teacher. But I think that the key would be to make sure that this specific issue is addressed in his IEP, giving him extra time to turn in homework assignments and what would be considered "adequate progress" (I think that is how k-12 words it) so that when you get that "hey where your work" you can remind them that they must comply with his IEP.

As for your son with CP, I would think that they would make an exception to the whole in his writing issue considering his medical issue.

UHHHH, k-12 is so frustrating. It seems it could be a really good program if it werent for all the PS bs (at least in my county)

[Jennifer Z]

Originally Posted by luv-my-boys

UHHHH, k-12 is so frustrating. It seems it could be a really good program if it werent for all the PS bs (at least in my county)

I agree. If I wasn't worried about how much we were accomplishing each day, I know that we could have finished it over the course of a year, but trying to finish in 9 months (7-8 months really, because it took a while to get access to it because we were first timers) with the intensive amount of modifications I was having to do, and the PS people weren't on my butt all the time, we could have enjoyed it. However, once May rolls around, it is the end. You can't keep plugging along through the summer, and you can't start a new level when you finish one unless it is the "right time of the year". Stupid.

His modification for an IEP would have been only accomplishing 60% of the work. Well, that is more reasonable given the time limit, but only if I can keep working on it over the summer so that he has completed it before the next grade starts. Otherwise, we would just be setting him up for an even worse year the next year.