Painting materials for a 7 year old - Suggestions?

[tammyw]

I have a very avid artist in my DD who is nearly 7. She took an art class a while back but it was discontinued. They did acrylics on canvas board and she loved it (and the art she did was incredibly if I do say so myself). She just loves to do art. All the time. So I was thinking of maybe getting her some acrylics and supplies for working at home. I did read another thread where Lillian J posted about the dangers of acrylics, which of course made me nervous.

So, my questions:

- should I still consider acrylics? Working outside is harder because it's windy here and we get a lot of sea spray and sand from the ocean

- if the recommendation is to get them, is the Reeves brand any good? That's what was recommended to me by Blick Art.

I'm open to suggestions about this, but I definitely feel like I need to provide her with the ability to paint, as she really wants to, and enjoys it so.

(Lillian - I also just requested the book Kids Play from my library and I should be able to pick it up soon, so thank you!)

[Lillian J]

Tammy, this isn't what you're asking, but I've done some beautiful paintings in tempera paint - one is about 8' high and 4' high and hanging smack in the entrance of in my living room. The colors and textures are pretty stunning if you get good tempera paints, but not the cheaper ones referred to as "poster paints." People are usually surprised when I tell them they're done in tempera, because there are some misconceptions about how tempera can look. And you can even put an acrylic sealer on them when they're finished that would bring up the sheen (so they'd look wet again after drying) and protect the surface. I think they'd do very well outdoors where sea spray is an issue - you'd just want to tape the paper all around on a board or easel.

The best one on the market right now is by Utrecht - specifically, the Utrecht Studio Series, and they sell them in large 16.9 oz bottles or in smaller sets you can try out. There are occasional sales on them too - And I'd recommend getting some of this really good paper and a few of the brushes - they seem at first to be pretty pricey, but when you consider how much cheaper it is to use good tempera paints rather than good acrylics, it makes good sense to invest in good paper and brushes. You want to keep the brushes very clean in between uses - and I think it's a nice ritual to take special care of them, in that it shows respect for your art and the materials that make it work well for you. You don't even need an easel - you can fasten a protective sheet of some kind on a wall and tape the paper on.

Tempera is what you'll see demonstrated in Kids Play, by the way - the author and artist, Michell Cassou, works exclusively in tempera. - Lillian

[tammyw]

Thanks Lillian. I was hoping you'd see this and respond. I think you've given excellent advice. I will try that route! Can she paint on canvas boards with those also? She really likes the firmness of them (same with stretched gallery wrap canvas).

So with regards to the tempera you recommend, I assume it would be okay to paint indoors and not worry about chemical smell?

[Lillian J]

Originally Posted by tammyw

Thanks Lillian. I was hoping you'd see this and respond. I think you've given excellent advice. I will try that route! Can she paint on canvas boards with those also? She really likes the firmness of them (same with stretched gallery wrap canvas).

So with regards to the tempera you recommend, I assume it would be okay to paint indoors and not worry about chemical smell?

Interesting question - she could paint on canvas board with them, I suppose - but I don't think it will grab the paint in the same way. A heavy, high quality watercolor paper taped on a board will give her at least the same firmness, if not more, and a more luminous quality - and then, once they're dry, she can mat them or whatever... There won't be a chemical smell - they're pretty clean stuff. One other thing - the tempera on paper approach seems to take a lot of the intimidation factor out, so she might feel freer to experiment and then copy some pieces onto canvas with acrylics later.

Or even oils at some point - I've done that with some of mine, and I use only M Graham walnut oil based paints, because they haven't had any nasty solvents used in their production the way most linseed oil based paints have. And they don't require turpentine or other harsh chemicals to use - you can use walnut oil as a medium, and you can even clean your brushes with it and then some soap. It's really interesting to copy a tempera painting into oil on canvas, because you end up changing it and coming up with an entirely different painting with elements of the first one. I keep looking at this huge one I have in my living room and wondering what will happen if and when I get around to doing it in oil - I know that some of the elements in it will change radically, some will not be transferred at all, and new ones will emerge. Lillian

[tammyw]

Okay, so good quality watercolor paper and brushes? I can't order from that place you recommended for paper/brushes because the shipping is too high to Hawaii, so I'd like to order it all from the place where I will get the paint since the shipping is reasonable.

[Lillian J]

Originally Posted by tammyw

Okay, so good quality watercolor paper and brushes? I can't order from that place you recommended for paper/brushes because the shipping is too high to Hawaii, so I'd like to order it all from the place where I will get the paint since the shipping is reasonable.

Oh! Well, this is part of what Michell Cassou recommends on her website:

BRUSHES:
Natural bristle watercolor or gouache brushes.
Brands recommended:
- Isabey brushes. (Best) Very good pointed brushes with excellent color reserve. Number 6234 #000, #1, #3.
- Loew-Cornell 7000 Round (less expensive) Number #5 #10 #14
- Yarka (less expensive) Number 10, 8, and 6

PAPER:
Paper choice: printing paper Wausau Exact vellum, 80-lb, 20" X 26". You can buy any other kind of paper you like in an art store but make sure it is not too grainy or overly smooth (Recommended 80-lb Vellum, 20" x 26", or 22" x 28".)

Can be found in printing supplies house. Very cheap. In yellow pages, look for "paper supplier". I hope you can get the stuff locally. - Lillian

[iamme]

Popping in here to say thank you for asking this question, and thanks, Lillian for the advice and links! I came here tonight to ask almost the same question.

I'm trying to slowly build up a nice quality arts and crafts center for my ds.

[Lillian J]

It just occurred to me that I didn't mean to say acrylics should be totally avoided - it's just that they're not as nontoxic as some would imagine. From an article on hazards of artist materials: "Volatile vehicle ingredients, on the other hand, can be inhaled by artists while they work or while paints or inks are drying. Acrylic paints, for example, usually contain ingredients which release ammonia and formaldehyde gases while they dry. Permanent markers contain solvents which evaporate and can be inhaled." Not such a big deal if you're not using them constantly, but I'm certainly aware when I'm painting that there's more there than meets the eye. I love painting with acrylics - they offer wonderful spontaneity - but I've also learned to really appreciate the joys of good temperas. Unfortunately, there hasn't been enough enthusiasm for them to keep manufacturers producing fine quality - Prang, for instance, has really declined since being bought out by an overseas company.

Well, , as you can see, getting me started about painting winds me up even more than 'homeschooling" talk. And since I was very frighteningly sensitive to chemicals of all kinds for a while, due to exposure to I-don't-know-what, I take toxicity pretty seriously. - Lillian

[msp]

Thanks for this post. My 5yo is hooked with acrylics, although he doesn't paint very often. He's been using them since 4.5yo, for about 2 hours a month or less.

I've bought him only 4 colours from Winsor & Newton (Galeria):
- Process Yellow (arylide Yellow)
- Cobalt Blue Hue (ultramarine blue, copper phthalocyanine, titanium dioxide)
- Cadmium Red Medium (cadmium sulphoselenide)
- Titanium White (titaium dioxide)

He doesn't have much of them. about 30ml red and blue, a bit of yellow and 100ml white.

My son has been very (I mean *very*) healthy this last year. We've even reversed his tooth decay problem, and I can't think of a strange reaction after painting. We've done big diet improvements, and he's still nursing.

I live in Ecuador, so I'm not sure if I can get good choices on temperas. Is it better to go for just any brand of temperas instead of acrylics?

I'll look for them next week. Thanks!!!

[Lillian J]

Originally Posted by msp

Thanks for this post. My 5yo is hooked with acrylics, although he doesn't paint very often. He's been using them since 4.5yo, for about 2 hours a month or less.

I've bought him only 4 colours from Winsor & Newton (Galeria):
- Process Yellow (arylide Yellow)
- Cobalt Blue Hue (ultramarine blue, copper phthalocyanine, titanium dioxide)
- Cadmium Red Medium (cadmium sulphoselenide)
- Titanium White (titaium dioxide)

He doesn't have much of them. about 30ml red and blue, a bit of yellow and 100ml white.

My son has been very (I mean *very*) healthy this last year. We've even reversed his tooth decay problem, and I can't think of a strange reaction after painting. We've done big diet improvements, and he's still nursing.

I live in Ecuador, so I'm not sure if I can get good choices on temperas. Is it better to go for just any brand of temperas instead of acrylics?

I'll look for them next week. Thanks!!!

I wouldn't worry about them at all at that level of exposure - but he should definitely not be inhaling any of the powder if you're mixing them, or touching the paint, even in the process of washing the brushes, especially those containing toxic cobalt and cadmium. Avoid rubbing the brushes in your palms when rinsing/washing them. Even that particular yellow pigment can cause irritation when touched, although it's local irritation rather than the more serious problems cobalt and cadmium have. In fact, some toys have recently been recalled because of cadmium content in them. - Lillian

[msp]

Thanks Lilian! I don't mix the painting, but in the past he's touched the materials with his hands. Not anymore.

Are there small gloves that children can wear for painting?

[tammyw]

I just ordered a dvd from Michele Cassou's site "The Flowering of Children's Creativity". It only just arrived so I haven't watched it yet, but I will report back once I've had a chance.

We're moving to San Diego in a couple months, and I plan to set up an art room (if we get the house we are hoping to rent) which has perfect space to do this. I am very excited by this idea - a space where my kids can paint whenever they want without extensive set-up or clean-up. It's a casita in the back of the house that has tile floors. I'm giddy over the idea. I'm hoping Michele's dvd will help guide me into setting up the perfect space.

I did email Michele to ask about quality art classes in San Diego. She said she hasn't found any yet (for children) but if she does will let me know. But she did say NO art class is better than a bad one. I'd love to find a good one though - because I think she'd really like it. I did contact one art class that someone had recommended to me and asked if the kids have free reign over what they paint and was told that no, in fact the teachers tell the kids what to paint. That just doesn't sit quite right with me. I don't want my kid in a class where every student paints the same exact picture. To me, that's not using their individual creativity. Am I wrong/right here?

And if anyone here knows of a good art class in San Diego, I'm all ears.

Lillian - you wouldn't happen to know any, would you? Or would you be able to put out feelers for a great art class, if you know people in SD? Also, where are you in CA Lillian? I'd love it if I could meet up with you someday! You've always been so inspirational to me.

[Savoir Faire]

I know it isn't fancy artist paint, but we have had GREAT results with the Artists Loft brand of watercolors from the michaels arts and crafts store.

I got them because I wanted to get a step up from the traditional 8 color watercolors that most people give kids...but now I LOVE them!

[Lillian J]

Originally Posted by msp

Thanks Lilian! I don't mix the painting, but in the past he's touched the materials with his hands. Not anymore.

Are there small gloves that children can wear for painting?

I suppose so, but I wouldn't worry about it, personally - it's one thing to inadvertently touch something and then rinse your hands as compared to rubbing a saturated brush around in the palm of your hand while washing and rinsing it. I'm no expert on how much exposure is a danger, but it really doesn't sound as if he's continually coming into contact with the paint, and I don't want to be an alarmist. I'd eventually switch to different pigments, though - you can Google to find out which pigments are least toxic. Lillian

[Lillian J]

Oh, Tammy, you have me salivating over the idea of an art room. I have a nook I use, and I have to be pretty organized to utilize it well and keep the area looking nice from the living room. I hope you do a lot of splashing and dripping in your art space!

I did email Michele to ask about quality art classes in San Diego. She said she hasn't found any yet (for children) but if she does will let me know. But she did say NO art class is better than a bad one.

She's cute that way - very passionate on the subject. You might get a lot out of just that video, though. Will be interesting... Maybe you'll eventually open up the kind of thing she'd love to see happening.

I don't want my kid in a class where every student paints the same exact picture. To me, that's not using their individual creativity. Am I wrong/right here?

Well, I'd have to say yes and no to that. If there's some specific technique someone might like to learn at an older age - something that can be learned by step by step following of procedures, it can be fun - it's just that teachers can be pretty stifling without even realizing it, so the teacher is the most important aspect to consider.

Lillian - you wouldn't happen to know any, would you? Or would you be able to put out feelers for a great art class, if you know people in SD? Also, where are you in CA Lillian? I'd love it if I could meet up with you someday! You've always been so inspirational to me.

Well, thank you! Yes, I can definitely ask around. I'm up north, but will be going south for a trip before long, so we'll see about meeting up - that would be great fun! Lillian