Another how should I deal with this thread

[Wild Lupine]

I posted this in Childhood Years but didn't get any response (except from other Mama's in the same situation looking for the same advice).

DD just turned three. We live in very close quarters with other families and the kids generally play together very well. One girl - about 6 or 7 - has started to not want my DD to play with her. It's like an older sister/younger sister dynamic. My DD goes up to her and asks to join in on what she's doing or suggests a game, and the other girl says no, very harshly, or yells at her to go away. DD is younger, and that seems to be the root of it. If they're drawing on the sidewalk, DD's pictures are very messy while the other girl's are neat. If they're playing catch, DD can't catch or throw as well. So the older girl doesn't want DD to play with her.

If the older girl were nice about it, I could handle it, if it weren't happening in my front yard, I could handle it, but I'm not wanting DD to be excluded and yelled at in her own space.

I try to find ways for DD to join in, like having her color nearby or asking the older girl if there's a small section DD can have. The older girls' mom also tries to help DD be included, and also reminds her daughter to speak nicely to my DD.
But when the other girl, who still is very young, at least compared to me , shouts at my DD I'm at a loss as to how to respond. I feel like I should say something to model to DD how to respond to that kind of thing, but I don't know what.

The other problem is that the older girl is now lying to me about things DD has done in hopes that I'll take her away. She tells me she hits and kicks her when I am not looking (I do supervise closely, but I have a baby and get distracted). The last time the older girl told me DD kicked her, another Mama pulled me aside and told me she'd been watching the whole time and the kicking never occurred.

I know this is age appropriate stuff and it must be hard to be the oldest in the neighborhood, but it really hurts DD's feelings. And I don't want her imitating this stuff with other children.

[aran]

Is the older girl's mom around or not? I know you said her mom does try to intervene sometimes, but it isn't clear if she is always supervising or if you are the only adult.

If you are the only adult, I would just be very direct and tell older neighbor girl "It's OK to ask for space, but we don't use mean voices" (or similar). If she continues, I would ask her to leave (you said it is your yard, right?) until she is ready to use a kind voice. I am very direct and specific with requests kids interacting with mine if their behaviors are unkind.

However, if the girls mom is there and not intervening when she is overly harsh to your DD, that becomes more difficult...

[lonegirl]

Do you share the yard? If it is happening in your own yard/sidewalk...I would nicely tell the little girl that if your DD can't play with her then perhaps she play elsewhere.

[aran]

Originally Posted by lonegirl

I would nicely tell the little girl that if your DH can't play with her then perhaps she play elsewhere.

OT

This typo (bolded above) cracked me up... I needed that.

[lonegirl]

Originally Posted by aran

OT

This typo (bolded above) cracked me up... I needed that.

LOL oooops! glad I could give a chuckle

[Wild Lupine]

Originally Posted by aran

Is the older girl's mom around or not? I know you said her mom does try to intervene sometimes, but it isn't clear if she is always supervising or if you are the only adult.

There are always a lot of adults around. Her mom does intervene when they are there, and generally works to find a compromise.

Originally Posted by aran

If you are the only adult, I would just be very direct and tell older neighbor girl "It's OK to ask for space, but we don't use mean voices" (or similar).

I like this. It honors both children's needs and gives the other girl a way to get her needs met without resorting to unkindness.

Originally Posted by aran

However, if the girls mom is there and not intervening when she is overly harsh to your DD, that becomes more difficult...

The other girl's mom definitely intervenes, and is usually there, but it keeps on happening. This has actually been going on for months. I know phases can last a long time, but it is getting to the point where I'm reluctant to go outside when the other girl will be there because I know she'll say something unkind (and there will be a response, but she will still say it before the response happens) and DD will be in a rotten mood for the rest of the day afterward.

I also feel like I'm letting DD down when I don't say anything. I wonder what it looks like to her eyes when someone is unkind to her, and mom is right there but doesn't say anything. When she went through her hitting phase I was always on her, and I feel like I should be glued to her the same way when she's being mistreated. If she was being physically hurt I'd know how to pull her out of the way and protect her that way, but I don't have the words and action to counter harsh things that are said.

[mamabutterfly]

What about helping to instigate imaginary play in which the age differences work out well - like playing house or pets, etc. This is what my dd when 5/6/7 has really liked to do when playing with younger children. Like mama & baby, or girl and puppy (that sounds like it could be humiliating, but doesn't have to be).

Also, when I have a playdate over that isn't a natural fit, I do tend to take a pretty proactive role at creating a fun game. I'm sure some people would rather leave kids to their own devices in play, but I like to sometimes help my dd to have fun with a much older or younger (or just different personality) friend by kicking off a game for them. And I accompanied my dd in playing sometimes to help her fit into the game if she was 2 or 3 or even 4. I think it can help a lot to model good play.

What about bringing out costumes, or bringing out a tresure hunt, etc - so that you are hosting something really fun, but being clear that it is something to play together.

I'm also matter of fact - we don't exclude, it's not okay to hurt feelings, etc. Yes, a six year old won't get that perfectly, but it's important to keep speaking up about it I think. Be kind to the other girl of course, and understand she's little too. [I think it's hard to be nice to a child that hurts you child's feelings! Imagine hat she's yours too, and know she's struggling to be nice. It isn't easy. ]

[aran]

Originally Posted by mamabutterfly

What about helping to instigate imaginary play in which the age differences work out well - like playing house or pets, etc. This is what my dd when 5/6/7 has really liked to do when playing with younger children. Like mama & baby, or girl and puppy (that sounds like it could be humiliating, but doesn't have to be).

That's a good idea too. When my DS1 is aggravated by DS2's inability to play at the same level, I usually can convince them to play in a way where DS1 is the shopkeeper or construction worker or whatever, and DS2 is the bagger, or the assistant, etc. They each have a different role, befitting the complexity of pretend play that each can handle well. They love this! But it does take some time for me to get them set up in their respective roles at the outset.

[Wild Lupine]

Originally Posted by mamabutterfly

What about helping to instigate imaginary play in which the age differences work out well - like playing house or pets, etc. This is what my dd when 5/6/7 has really liked to do when playing with younger children. Like mama & baby, or girl and puppy (that sounds like it could be humiliating, but doesn't have to be).

This is a great idea. Sometimes she comes over to play when the weather is bad and this would work really well for those times.

When we're outside it's a bit tricky. I have a 15 month old who likes to be on me all the time. Once he starts walking it'll be different, but right now everything I do outside is with a large baby in the mei tei. But maybe I can figure something out that doesn't require to be able to move easily or get down to ground level.

[guest93952359]

I liked the idea of you initiating some kind of play to sort of "turn the page" on the other girl's habit of meanneass.

My idea is similar. I was going to suggest you buy or invent some toy or game that is mainly for *your* DD, which can be shared by the other girl too. But hopefully the pendulum of respect swings back since the other child will have to ask to be included. In other words she can't take your DD for granted or push her away if she wants to stay and play with the new toy or game.

This can't work forever, obviously. You can't just keep buying new stuff. But maybe, just maybe, they'll actually start to have fun again over a new catalyst like the game you just got. And that could start the other girl's interest in a bit of a friendship again.

Good luck!