Eroticism and Christianity/Spirituality

[annettemarie]

OK, bear with me here.

I was at the gym and I had The Waiting loaded up on my MP3 player. And I'm running on the treadmill and getting into my groove, and listening to one of my favorite songs, Hands in the Air. And I've always really really liked this song, and it's always elicited a very emotional response from me. And as I'm listening, I realize the words are sort of... erotic. I mean, not to give away my own kinks , but

If I raise my hands will you grab me by the wrists
And will you try to pull me from the fray?
And even if my fingers join together into fists
Will you hold me firmly anyway?

It's all about struggling, but not really wanting to get away.

And I realized that this isn't something exclusive just to this song or this group. There's a lot of language like this that I've noticed in Christianity, about being in bondage, struggling against someone who wants to hold us close, and we want to be held but we still want to put up a fight, stuff like that.

And I'm thinking that maybe we humans are much more prudish than God is. I mean, hello? Song of Solomon?

So, I thought I'd lay it out there and see if anyone else ever thought about this, or if I'm just twisted and warped.

[mamabadger]

You are no more twisted and warped than I am, at least.
I would not know about other religions/denominations, but in mine, both Scripture, services, and other Christian writings are filled with erotic metaphor.
Song of Solomon just for starters: God as the ardent lover, His people as His beautiful bride.
Christ is described often as the Bridegroom, we are all (male and female alike) his bride.
St. Paul (and others) described the sexual bond between husband and wife as an earthly metaphor for the love between God and His people.
Our services and prayers are filled with this kind of imagery. In a prayer we read before receiving Communion, we say "Thou hast ravished me with longing, O Christ...make me worthy to be filled with delight in Thee," and refer to approaching the Chalice as "entering the Bridechamber."
In my church, the sex act between a married couple is considered sacramental and a small metaphor for our ultimate union with God.
It does not seem odd at all to me, since God is the one who came up with sex in the first place.

[cappuccinosmom]

Well, I don't think the phrase being a "slave to Christ" is about S&M.

But certainly, there are things glossed over or theologized in order to avoid the discomfort of seeing any mention of sex. I have heard the Song of Solomon so aestheticized that it's nearly unrecognizeable. Me, I thought it was great to read with dh on our honeymoon.

I guess it depends, by eroticism are we talking about sex, any kind of sex whenever and with whomever, or about sex as a God-given beautiful, lavish, gift to be greatly enjoyed for those who take on the responsibilities and committments (ie: marriage) attendant to it?

[cappuccinosmom]

And I realized that this isn't something exclusive just to this song or this group. There's a lot of language like this that I've noticed in Christianity, about being in bondage, struggling against someone who wants to hold us close, and we want to be held but we still want to put up a fight, stuff like that.

This though, while I agree that it is a common theme, I don't see as sexual. Bondage, struggling, etc. is not part of my experience of marital love.


But I can comprehend those themes as someone who's been a child, and someone who's a mother, and as someone who just has a habit of observing human nature. We *often* struggle against what we know is good in all sorts of contexts, and it has nothing to do with sexuality or sexual relationships. We tend to fight most the people who love us the most.

[Tradd]

Well, also look at the religious poetry of John Dunne:

Batter my heart, three-person'd God, for you
As yet but knock, breathe, shine, and seek to mend;
That I may rise and stand, o'erthrow me, and bend
Your force to break, blow, burn, and make me new.
I, like an usurp'd town to'another due,
Labor to'admit you, but oh, to no end;
Reason, your viceroy in me, me should defend,
But is captiv'd, and proves weak or untrue.
Yet dearly'I love you, and would be lov'd fain,
But am betroth'd unto your enemy;
Divorce me,'untie or break that knot again,
Take me to you, imprison me, for I,
Except you'enthrall me, never shall be free,
Nor ever chaste, except you ravish me.

[genifer]

That is very interesting. I have never thought of it as a sexual thing. And even in the poem and the song supplied as evidence in the thread already, I dont see the sexual applications. The eroticism. I see passion. Im not saying its not there, and I agree with what others have said about sex being an act created by God and that its a very special act, spiritual even. I totally get that. Whether its done in the context it was created for or not, its spiritual, I believe. But, when Im listening to those songs, I dont initially get the sexual implications. I guess its about perspective. To me, sex is SO intimate. I wouldnt even call myself prudish ... but for me, its not something to be shared, even in the context of a song, poem, whatever, with anyone except who its intended to be shared with. So, for me, when I read poems like the john dunne one supplied, the song the op mentioned, it doesnt cross my mind as being erotic. Passionate, yeah.

funny that, huh.

[Purple Sage]

I'm not sure about the Christian God, but in ancient pre-Christian religions - like those in Egypt and Greece - there was quite a bit of sex involved. There are Gods and Goddesses of love, sex, and procreation (Aphrodite ), and there are many myths that involve sex. In the myths, sex and sexual procreation were often (if not always) symbolic of transformation and creation. Sex is a beautiful part of human existence, and the natural religions of ancient civilizations did not take a prudish approach to it at all.

[annettemarie]

Thanks for all the discussion! And I didn't mean to itimate that there was something kinky about God.

And maybe passion is a better word. Or maybe God has less hangups than I do. I don't know.

Love the John Donne poem, BTW! I was also thinking of this:
The Ecstasy of St. Theresa

[xekomaya]

I don't know the music, so just going off the discussion...

I think passion IS a better word, and not that sex isn't passionate, but its not the only use of passion. If anything, I think humans are very limited and naturally carnal. We tend to find a way to bring otherwise pure ideas back to lust, which is always wrong even within the context of marriage.

And as far as humans being more prudish than God? I don't think so at all. Our tendency toward concupiscence just makes it all the more important that we keep up our guard against tempting language - for ourselves and others who may have struggles we don't know about.

[RiverSky]

I just watched this last night and thought it totally fits with your theme.

http://www.youtube.com/user/zomgitsc.../2/8pOG1-KsutI

[TzippityDoulah]

my concern would be the word "erotic". erotic means a pasionate sexual love. it has nothing to do with bondage or physical pain. though love does cause pain emotionally sometimes, of course.

God often refers to the love of a mana nd woman to be like the love he has for his church. sexual love is the closest thing to the pure love that God has for us, his creation. Sex is the earthly way of expressing and tapping into a spiritual love.

and again, bondage and physical and NOT erotic love. they are lust. one should deeply enjoy sex, not be hurt by it. there is a fine but important line there. it has nothing to do with being pruddish and everything to do with being able to fully enjoy the blessing of a full and abundant and free sexual relationship with your spouse.