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S/O When does the attachment stop? - Page 3

Poll Results: When does attachment end/kind of support?

 
  • 68% (112)
    Never-child can get any kind of help from me, financial,emotional,etc.
  • 0% (0)
    18-no more $ but I'll be there for emotional support
  • 0% (0)
    18-no more support of any kind, on your own kiddo!
  • 5% (9)
    19-23- no more $ but I'll be there for emotional support
  • 0% (0)
    19-23- no more support after that, on your own!
  • 9% (15)
    Whenever they finish college-no $, I'll be there for emotional support
  • 0% (1)
    whenever they finish college-no more support ,on their own
  • 1% (3)
    when they have their own family-only emotional support
  • 0% (0)
    when they have their own family-no support
  • 14% (24)
    Other
164 Total Votes  
post #41 of 104
I will always be there for my son in whatever way I can no matter what!!! I at times have felt my mother has not been there for me over the years. It really hurts! I dont want my son to ever feel the way I do towards my mother. I wish I could turn to her when I needed her!
post #42 of 104
I voted never. I will not support my children 100% in any way if they are capable of doing so themselves and choose not to. But even if they are 40 and have a good job and hit a rough spot and need a little cash, I would do it, if I were able. Or if they are 30 and get divorced and need to live with me for a month. Absolutely I would do it. Or if they were 25 and their first child were stillborn and they were devastated, they could absolutely lay in my lap and cry. Or even if they are 19 and flunked out of a class at college and needed to vent to someone. I'm here.

My parents are there for me and have been there for me since I was born. I would be devastated if I was in any of those situations and they just couldn't be bothered to help me if they were able.

But I also give back to them. It's a two-way relationship. I've loaned my mom money. I've done my dad's grocery shopping. I've listened to them vent. I've been there when they've cried.

My DS is not quite 5 and is learning that relationships are two-way. It's interesting to see him realize this. He's a very generous kid and tries to be helpful. It's little things. He brought me an apple juice today. I felt bad when I told him I didn't really like juice. He got upset and said, "I was trying to be nice mom!" and I encouraged him that it WAS a really nice thing to do and I appreciate it, but I truly don't like apple juice. Then I gave him a hug. He'll sometimes rub my back when I'm lounging on the bed, ready to pass out and the day is not even half way through. He brings me a book (mine, not his) sometimes when I'm rocking his sister to sleep. When we go to the store, he points out things he thinks I would like.

How could I ever deny a child (or adult) so giving and caring? I would always be willing to help out a friend in any way I could if I needed it, why would there be an age or situation where I shut off the giving part of my relationship with my child?
post #43 of 104
Quote:
Originally Posted by bandgeek View Post
My DS is not quite 5 and is learning that relationships are two-way. It's interesting to see him realize this. He's a very generous kid and tries to be helpful. It's little things. He brought me an apple juice today.
Kids can be so amazing. When I was flat on my back on the couch after Aaron died, dd1 (4 at the time) kept trying to nurse me back to health. She'd bring me food and water and the microwaveable heart from the Earth Mama Angel Baby recovery kit someone sent, and....it was just amazing. Even in the horrible state I was in, it sunk in. I remember being both sad that she was trying to take care of me, when I should have been taking care of her, and so...proud & humbled, all at once, that she was being such an amazing little girl.
post #44 of 104
Quote:
Originally Posted by JL83 View Post
I probably am dismissive of adults crying. It is such a breakdown of control.
I couldn't disagree more. Not gunna bother explaining why, suffice to say, it doesn't matter, I have the support in place to be an uncontrollable basket case should it ever come to that. To be quite honest, it's nice to know people got my back.

Quote:
What I think is ridiculous is the expectation that another adult should have to drop everything they are doing to give that love and support immediately. Apparently, waiting until the next day isn't good enough. Talking on the phone isn't good enough. Does that mean that parents should never move to a different city? If a child moves, should the parents follow?
Hmm. I agree and disagree. I think the situation is relative. If I were shopping and someone called me up crying and needed to sit down over a cup of coffee, I'd be there as soon as I could. If I were in the middle of a root canal it might have to wait a bit. I do the best I can with the situation. But that's just it, I do the best I can, not what is convenient. Sometimes helping people is down right INconvenient. But I love my family and my friends so I do it.

Do you think you should only help people if it's convenient? Or if the situation is something that YOU have determined worthy of support? That's rather conditional, isn't it?

Quote:
I also think that adults should have additional sources of support. Children don't have that luxury, but adults do.
To address something you said in the other thread about family being your default support system, I whole heartily agree that blood does not determine your closeness or relationship status. I have blood relations that I barely speak too and would never dream of calling upon. I also have people that are of no relation but have been my friend for close to 20 years and I'm confident would give me a kidney if I needed one. But to say that someone SHOULD have other support is kind of silly. You're close with who ever you're close with. If that happens to be your mother, so be it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JL83 View Post
But I think that adults should have the level of control to keep it together until they have support in place.
Having suffered from severe PPD (in hind sight ), I have to say that this is easier said than done. Self preservation is important, and sometimes I needed a break BEFORE it was too late. Call it a lack of control if you want, it doesn't make me less of a person. In fact, I only feel more blessed that I had people to call on. I can't imagine being in that dark place knowing that I had to put on a game face and suck it up so I didn't bother someone while they were out shopping. Gah. What a horrible way to live!

For me it was PPD, for someone else it might be an alcoholic husband, or a self destructive sibling, but if you're really trying to imply that anyone who goes through a hard time in their life needs to suck up their emotions and maintain control so as not inconvenience people, then I don't know what to say.

I'm inconvenienced by my loved ones occasionally, but I don't put conditions on our relationship, and certainly not relating to when they should and should not call upon me for support.
post #45 of 104
An anecdote: When my sister was just staring off and needed to buy her own disability insurance, she was talking to my uncle (who sold insurance). She was very concerned that at her income level, she could only afford long term disability, but not short term disability. What would she do for the short term?

My uncle looked at her and said "That's what families are for."

Families are intended to support one another. What form that support takes depends on the needs and the means of the family involved. I hope that I will equip my children for independent living and for smart decisions in the future. We're working hard on those skills, and will continue to do so. But I would also hope that a family would be a place for love and support, regardless of age.

When I had PPD, my oldest sister dropped what she was doing and came out for a week to help. Other family also came to help. I was in a situation where I was not functioning well, and my family came to my aid. My parents, had they been able to help physically, would have come.

In terms of the questions posed:

Emotional support? Always.
Financial support? It depends on the situation. I won't loan a child money to rescue them from bad financial decisions (wrecking your car and not carrying insurance, bad investments), or if they're currently using drugs/alcohol. But if they need a little help for sound reasons and I can help, I'll try. I'd do what I could to keep a child (even adult child) from becoming homeless, but I'd probably attach strings (job counseling, drug rehab, whatever it was). If my child chose drugs over rehab, then so be it.

In terms of children supporting adult parents:
Yes, parents have a responsibility to make sure they're stable, but like children, sometimes they can't do that. Sometimes they thought they did that and things changed (as in their company pension disappeared). I will support my parents to the best of my ability. They're earned that right after 43 years of parenting and support of me.

I shudder to think what society would become if we don't feel a personal responsibility for members of our family, young or old.
post #46 of 104
Quote:
If I somehow end up really wealthy when they're adults, I'd happily support them to the point that they wouldn't even have to work a paid job. Why wouldn't someone want to do that for their kids?
Really? I wouldn't. And not because I don't love my daughter. I think being able to live without working is a dangerous privilege even for people who have earned it by their own hard work; but potentially character-crushing for kids who were born into that privilege. I don't want comfort for my daughter more than I want her to learn responsibility, the merits of hard work, the situation 99% of the world has to deal with.

Which is not to say I'm going to chuck her in a sweatshop at the age of ten or anything. But yeah... no. It'll be a minor miracle if DH and I end up fabulously wealthy, but if we did I'd want that to be something we used to enrich her life and teach her, not to let her opt out of a VERY vital and meaningful part of life - that of earning one's daily bread.
post #47 of 104
and for those of you who think an adult should be able to take care of themselves, what is you plan for when you are old and unable? chances are your kids will not want to be btohered with the inconvinience of caring for an adult.....

In our family we take care of each other. everyone needs someone. you don't need to burden your friends. families are for sharing burdens. When I am sick my kids take care of me. when they are sick I take care of them. it is already a two way street. and I am sure that will contiunue until I am very old.
post #48 of 104
I believe that God gave us families for a reason--to be interdependent (or co-dependent, however you like to say it) and to help each other. So, in that light, I believe that parenting is a life-long event. Of course, I would give my child financial, emotional, and physical assistance as an adult, just as I would give her advice, hugs, a shoulder to cry on, and whatever else she needed. I would also expect her to care for me if I needed it and she was able to provide it. It honestly never would have occurred to me that others felt otherwise. I hate a "pioneering" spirit and find it very unnatural to the way God created humanity to function.

People have mentioned things like drug/alcohol addictions and abusive behaviors, etc., and I still fully believe that if you have a strong attached relationship these behaviors will not occur, so that doesn't even factor into my equation. I also believe that for those in that situation, what that person "needs" is help, not ennabling of those destructive behaviors. So, although I don't believe that I will ever be in that situation, I would definitely provide for the true "needs" of my child and help her recover her life.
post #49 of 104
Quote:
Originally Posted by lilyka View Post
In our family we take care of each other. everyone needs someone. you don't need to burden your friends. families are for sharing burdens. When I am sick my kids take care of me. when they are sick I take care of them. it is already a two way street. and I am sure that will contiunue until I am very old.
Absolutely. One of the things that made me fall in love with my husband was the fact that as a young guy (his early 20's) he moved with his grandmother and her sister to help them out when they started showing signs of Alzheimers.
post #50 of 104
I have a very conflicted relationship with my mother. And my parents live across the country. So I don't get much day-to-day support from them for various reasons.

But I do know that they WILL support me if I needed them. That makes such a big difference to me. That support could come in any number of ways, such as them jumping on a plane and coming, them letting me live with them, them sending me a check. Or even just a phone call to work through some difficult emotions.

When I was a teen and young adult, my father made it clear both verbally and in action, that wherever I was, if I needed him, he'd be there. If I called him from some party stoned out of my mind needing a ride, he'd hop in the car and come get me, no questions asked. (He never had to but I seriously have NO DOUBT it would be just like that). Or when I went away to college 4 hours from home with no car, I knew I could call him. Or if I ever broke down at the side of the road, even if he was across the country he'd be on the phone to AAA or a tow truck or whatever. This really means a lot.

And yes, I similarly have no doubt that if I were falling apart and called my mom while she was shopping nearby, she would dump her purchases right there and come right over. It really does make a positive difference in my life to KNOW that my parents value me more than their shopping or other conveniences - even if I haven't asked that of them since adolescence.

I don't think the definition of being an "adult" is "not relying on anyone else" - I think that's the definition of a rock, maybe. I do feel badly for those who are emotionally hardened to the point where they feel convenience comes first, or they think there is some purpose of life other than for us to be there for each other. Perhaps this is just a cultural thing, a "stiff upper lip" that is valued in some places - but yeah, I just think that it misses the whole point of life. We're not alone. And, if we are... how utterly heartbreaking.
post #51 of 104
When I was 17, I was in an argument with my mom about something or other, and I said to her: "Well, you had me!"
She responded: "How long will I have to pay for that mistake?"

I'll never forget that. I never want my kids to feel like they are a burden to me. So I'll be here, in whatever way I can, as long as they need me.
post #52 of 104
Quote:
Originally Posted by lilyka View Post
and for those of you who think an adult should be able to take care of themselves, what is you plan for when you are old and unable? chances are your kids will not want to be btohered with the inconvinience of caring for an adult.....
DH and I, even though we are young, already have financial plans in place to take care of us when we are old. Our DD1 will be ~60 when we're 80. It will not be her job to take care of us. Nor will it be her children's...
post #53 of 104
Quote:
Originally Posted by JL83 View Post
DH and I, even though we are young, already have financial plans in place to take care of us when we are old. Our DD1 will be ~60 when we're 80. It will not be her job to take care of us. Nor will it be her children's...
It is a relatively new western societal expectation that younger generations be free of the "burden" of the elderly. Not one I'm particularly fond of either. But in general, we don't respect family the way many other cultures do either, as evidenced by this thread.

I'm a little curious why people who feel that way are into attachment parenting. For me it was a fundamental respect for my daughter, and in fact I was doing it before I knew it had a name. That fundamental respect doesn't end when she's 18, or 80. The concept of children no longer NEEDING their parents past a certain age, and parents not "burdening" their children is completely foreign to me.

I'm curious when we began thinking that taking care of grown adults became a burden or a sign of weakness. Humans have evolved with a sense of community, by taking care of the elderly, by looking out for one another, and by making sure everyone was taken care of. I would be lying if I said I wasn't a bit worried what a society would be like without any of those social practices. Cold, isolated, lonely...
post #54 of 104
The issues of co-dependency aside (for adult children), I think it is terribly sad that our culture finds it perfectly acceptable to put the elderly away in assisted living so that the younger generation doesn't have to deal with them. It's like: okay, you're old now, you're a burden, its not my job to take care of you. This really hit home for me when I was a child. My sister and I used to visit nursing homes and let me tell you, although these people were taken well care of physically, they were incredibly lonely and bored. My parents will move into our one-bedroom apartment before I put them in a nursing home, even if it takes certain sacrifices on our parts. I don't think "family" is a "job." It is an extension of your own life and it is a fact of life. Not something to be patted on the back for when you actually do it and not something to check at the doorstep of independence. We complain loudly that the corporate world has devalued the concept of family, but we are actually doing it to ourselves.
post #55 of 104
Quote:
Originally Posted by North_Of_60 View Post
I'm a little curious why people who feel that way are into attachment parenting. For me it was a fundamental respect for my daughter, and in fact I was doing it before I knew it had a name. That fundamental respect doesn't end when she's 18, or 80. The concept of children no longer NEEDING their parents past a certain age, and parents not "burdening" their children is completely foreign to me.
I"m into attachment parenting because I think that the best way to raise competent independent adults is by meeting their needs early and often.

I hope that as my children reach adulthood we both like each other and our relationship can move onto the next level of being friends. But I know first hand that sometimes people don't like each other. My father and I have a great relationship. I would even call us friends. My mother and I? We are so different that it's just not possible. We do care about each other since we've sent 26 years together, but it doesn't go past that.
post #56 of 104
Quote:
Originally Posted by CatsCradle View Post
The issues of co-dependency aside (for adult children), I think it is terribly sad that our culture finds it perfectly acceptable to put the elderly away in assisted living so that the younger generation doesn't have to deal with them. It's like: okay, you're old now, you're a burden, its not my job to take care of you. This really hit home for me when I was a child. My sister and I used to visit nursing homes and let me tell you, although these people were taken well care of physically, they were incredibly lonely and bored. My parents will move into our one-bedroom apartment before I put them in a nursing home, even if it takes certain sacrifices on our parts. I don't think "family" is a "job." It is an extension of your own life and it is a fact of life. Not something to be patted on the back for when you actually do it and not something to check at the doorstep of independence. We complain loudly that the corporate world has devalued the concept of family, but we are actually doing it to ourselves.
I agree with everything here.
post #57 of 104
Quote:
Originally Posted by JL83 View Post
I"m into attachment parenting because I think that the best way to raise competent independent adults is by meeting their needs early and often.
While certainly worthy goals, that's secondary to the respect I have for her as an individual. Placing the emphasis on WHO I want her to become through my actions as a parent is setting us both up for disappointment.

My biggest fear, based on this thread in the context of emotional support, is her not coming to me because she'll think her mental health issues will be construed as weakness, dependence, or incompetence. Fostering a relationship that allows her the comfort and ability to ask for help without judgement is, I think, steeped in respect. Being goal oriented from an early age with a predetermined outcome in mind doesn't leave a lot of doors open should things not work out that way.
post #58 of 104
Quote:
Originally Posted by North_Of_60 View Post
While certainly worthy goals, that's secondary to the respect I have for her as an individual. Placing the emphasis on WHO I want her to become through my actions as a parent is setting us both up for disappointment.

My biggest fear, based on this thread in the context of emotional support, is her not coming to me because she'll think her mental health issues will be construed as weakness, dependence, or incompetence. Fostering a relationship that allows her the comfort and ability to ask for help without judgement is, I think, steeped in respect. Being goal oriented from an early age with a predetermined outcome in mind doesn't leave a lot of doors open should things not work out that way.

I should be clear.

I have NO issue with asking someone for help. That hasn't been my issue in either thread. People are welcome to make sure of whatever relationships they have formed.

My problem is the expectation people seem to have that a mother would drop everything simply because she's the "mother".

Relationships between 2 adults are just that. They are between 2 adults. Both parties have a part to play in forming and maintaining that relationship.

If my dad needed my help, since we have a strong healthy relationship, I would give it if I possibly could. And I know he'd do the same.

My mother? She spent most of my life making me miserable and could care less about me as an adult. I've made all "reasonable" attempts to form an adult relationship with her and they have all been dismissed. Would I go running to her? No! But, I know she wouldn't come running to me.

My objection is to the idea that no attention needs to be paid to the relationship itself. That it's the family ties that are the end all be all of the situation.
post #59 of 104
I used to work at a nursing home and I would never let a family member I loved live there (or assisted living, for that matter). For those that don't want to be a bureden on your children (or be burdened by taking care of aging parents) I really hope you have a better plan than nursing home care.
post #60 of 104
Quote:
Originally Posted by JL83 View Post
I have NO issue with asking someone for help. That hasn't been my issue in either thread.
Maybe I misread then. I thought you were of the belief that asking for help, ie, having someone drop everything to run over and "hold someone's hand" is ridiculous, that you should be able to stand on your own two feet, and you're unsympathetic to adults who need emotional support.

I agree that because someone gave birth to you doesn't mean you have a wonderful supportive relationship.
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