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S/O When does the attachment stop? - Page 4

Poll Results: When does attachment end/kind of support?

 
  • 68% (112)
    Never-child can get any kind of help from me, financial,emotional,etc.
  • 0% (0)
    18-no more $ but I'll be there for emotional support
  • 0% (0)
    18-no more support of any kind, on your own kiddo!
  • 5% (9)
    19-23- no more $ but I'll be there for emotional support
  • 0% (0)
    19-23- no more support after that, on your own!
  • 9% (15)
    Whenever they finish college-no $, I'll be there for emotional support
  • 0% (1)
    whenever they finish college-no more support ,on their own
  • 1% (3)
    when they have their own family-only emotional support
  • 0% (0)
    when they have their own family-no support
  • 14% (24)
    Other
164 Total Votes  
post #61 of 104
Quote:
Originally Posted by North_Of_60 View Post
Maybe I misread then. I thought you were of the belief that asking for help, ie, having someone drop everything to run over and "hold someone's hand" is ridiculous, that you should be able to stand on your own two feet, and you're unsympathetic to adults who need emotional support.

I agree that because someone gave birth to you doesn't mean you have a wonderful supportive relationship.
What I object to is that there is an expectation that someone would do that just because they are "family". If there is no pre-existing relationship, who would expect that to happen? It's not like relationships are this magic thing... They take work and effort.
post #62 of 104
Quote:
Originally Posted by JL83 View Post
I should be clear.

I have NO issue with asking someone for help. That hasn't been my issue in either thread. People are welcome to make sure of whatever relationships they have formed.

My problem is the expectation people seem to have that a mother would drop everything simply because she's the "mother".
Exactly! The issue is that the mother shouldn't be expected to be obligated to drop everything at any time for adult children. There's no shame in wanting help, and if you call someone and that person can't help, then call someone else. There's no shame in having to call a dozen people before you find someone who can help at that time. But I think it's wrong to pick apart the mother and judge whether her reasons for being unavailable are "good enough". When her kids are adults, her level of obligation for meeting their needs isn't the same as when they are children. If she isn't available, for whatever reason, her adult children can certainly go elsewhere for help. There's nothing wrong with needing help. But to then vilify the mom for not dropping everything is where my issue is.
post #63 of 104
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by North_Of_60 View Post
I'm curious when we began thinking that taking care of grown adults became a burden or a sign of weakness. Humans have evolved with a sense of community, by taking care of the elderly, by looking out for one another, and by making sure everyone was taken care of. I would be lying if I said I wasn't a bit worried what a society would be like without any of those social practices. Cold, isolated, lonely...
Well said. I already know that I will take care of my mom when it's time. It just feels right and natural to do so.
post #64 of 104
Quote:
Originally Posted by mamazee View Post
Exactly! The issue is that the mother shouldn't be expected to be obligated to drop everything at any time for adult children. There's no shame in wanting help, and if you call someone and that person can't help, then call someone else. There's no shame in having to call a dozen people before you find someone who can help at that time. But I think it's wrong to pick apart the mother and judge whether her reasons for being unavailable are "good enough". When her kids are adults, her level of obligation for meeting their needs isn't the same as when they are children. If she isn't available, for whatever reason, her adult children can certainly go elsewhere for help. There's nothing wrong with needing help. But to then vilify the mom for not dropping everything is where my issue is.
Ditto.

I'm from a large, very close family myself, but I wouldn't dream of being upset at my mother if she couldn't drop everything and help me out every time I needed it. The time where my needs (or wants) come before my parents needs and wants have long since passed. I'm not a child, I'm not disabled, and I do have other people I could call to ask for help.

Re: the nursing home comments... I think posters should not be so judgmental about that either. Making the decision to put a loved one in a nursing home is never an easy one.
post #65 of 104
Quote:
Originally Posted by WC_hapamama View Post
Re: the nursing home comments... I think posters should not be so judgmental about that either. Making the decision to put a loved one in a nursing home is never an easy one.
I know it's not. And I didn't mean to sound judgmental, so I apologize. I just can't personally imagine putting my own parents in one after they took care of me for so many years. Of course everyone's situations are different, and who knows how complicated my own life will be at that point, but I find it odd that people would feel burdened by taking care of an aging parent, or worry about putting their children in that position. As long as you have the space, and the means to care for them, it just seems like the right thing to do, IMO. Now, if you don't have a normal, decent relationship with your parents or grown children, then this may not apply.
post #66 of 104
Quote:
Originally Posted by mamazee View Post
The issue is that the mother shouldn't be expected to be obligated to drop everything at any time for adult children.
I will always want to help my children, but that doesn't mean I will drop EVERY thing at ANY time. I would evaluate the situation and decide if I'm truly needed right that second or not. My mom has done the same thing for me. She's dropped out of school before to help me with DD, when she was fighting for her life in the NICU. I would do the same for my children. A school quarter can be taken later. A child and grandchild needing help can't wait. I've called my mom in the middle of the night to watch DD while DBF took me to the ER (bad allergic reaction). She knew it couldn't wait. Sure, I could have hauled DD to the ER with me, but then she would have been around tons of germs, which is very, very bad for her.

If my mom is in an important meeting, and I call her upset about something, she will tell me to wait and she will call me back. If she's in a meeting and I called to tell her DD was taken by squad, she'd leave immediately.

I don't think many people are going to indiscriminately cater to every single one of their child's wishes. The OP already put a disclaimer about unhealthy co-dependency situations. We're talking real-life NORMAL situations where people need a family member to lean on. I'm having a hard time believing that anyone here thinks it's ridiculous for my mom will drop what she's doing to help when I'm in a bad situation. And I don't mean "bad" like I burnt dinner and need her to run and get me some fast food. I mean "bad" like my kid is in the hospital or I just left my husband.

Is it "expected" that she should do these things for me? No. But if she didn't we wouldn't have the great relationship we have now. If my DD was taken by squad and she said "Oh well I'm out shopping right now so you're on your own!" I wouldn't be close to her. That is a selfish attitude and I wouldn't want to be around her. And I certainly wouldn't be giving back to her. She'd still be my mom, but I wouldn't have any attachment to her. Knowing she cared more about shopping than her granddaughter or her daughter would pretty much fizzle out the relationship.

Thankfully she is nothing like that.

And yes, I intend to take care of her when she is old. It's a two-way relationship.
post #67 of 104
Quote:
Originally Posted by bandgeek View Post
Is it "expected" that she should do these things for me? No. But if she didn't we wouldn't have the great relationship we have now. If my DD was taken by squad and she said "Oh well I'm out shopping right now so you're on your own!" I wouldn't be close to her. That is a selfish attitude and I wouldn't want to be around her. And I certainly wouldn't be giving back to her. She'd still be my mom, but I wouldn't have any attachment to her. Knowing she cared more about shopping than her granddaughter or her daughter would pretty much fizzle out the relationship.
Exactly, is doing these sorts of things that maintain a close relationship, IMO.
post #68 of 104
Quote:
Originally Posted by JL83 View Post
DH and I, even though we are young, already have financial plans in place to take care of us when we are old. Our DD1 will be ~60 when we're 80. It will not be her job to take care of us. Nor will it be her children's...
but who will care for you? Money will provide you with food and shelter and nurses if need be but who will care for you? who will think of you? who will visit you? Who will put up with you when you need something and can't get it yourself? not the nursing home staff....I am sure there is someone you can hire for everything but they won't care. My grandparents are in a nice nursing home. they did well for themselves and planned well. but grandpa still needed his daughter to take him around looking for the right shoes and the right windshield washer fluid. He still needs babies to read to and little hands to draw rings on. Grandma still needs to see her great grandchildren and someone to have breakfast with her. Someone to take her to the store and go grocery shopping with her. I mean she could hire someone but grocery shopping is a joy to her. a chance to get out of her home All her life she had a great friends who were a wonderful support but all their close friends are literally dead and gone (they are in their mid 90s). So now they are left to rely on family for support. Good thing they have always always been there for their kids and grandkids and great grandchildren. They are a blessing to us and we consider it an honor to bless them. Nothing concerning them is a burden to me.

Support is about so much more than money. taking care of people needs is about so much more than what we can buy for them.
post #69 of 104
Quote:
Originally Posted by lilyka View Post
but who will care for you? Money will provide you with food and shelter but who will care for you? who will think of you? who will visit you? Who will put up with you when you need something and can't et it yourself? not the nursing home staff.....My grandparents are in a nice nursing home. they did well for themselves and planned well. but grandpa still needed his daughter to take him around looking for the right shoes and the right windshield washer fluid. Grandma still needs top see her great grandchildren and someone to have breakfast with her. Someone to take her to the store and go grocery shopping with her. I mean she could hire someone but grocery shopping is a joy to her. a chance to get out of her home All her life she had a great friends who were a wonderful support but all their close friends are literally dead and gone (they are in their mid 90s). So now they are left to rely on family for support. Good thing they have always always been there for their kids and grandkids and great grandchildren. They are a blessing to us and we consider it an honor to bless them. Nothing concerning them is a burden to me.
That's different. Having people to visit you and take you around when it works into their schedule is one thing. It's another thing to get angry with someone when they aren't willing and/or able to drop everything at that exact moment to take care of you.
post #70 of 104
Well, I voted never,that I will always support my kids.

I voted that way before reading the thread, and I didn't read the other thread this one spun off either. So I might be confused. But now that I've read the thread...I guess when I read the word "support" I didn't read "be your child's only means of support", "be physically close to your child at all times", "be responsible for your child", "be expected and obligated to support", "affirm bad decisions," "say yes to every whim or request", or "drop everything for any reason even if they treat you like crap, just because you're the mom" like so many have seemed to.

I meant that I will always be available should my child need me, to the best of my ability and of course depending on the situation. I would say the same for my parents, spouse, siblings, and friends as well.
post #71 of 104
Quote:
Originally Posted by lilyka View Post
but who will care for you? Money will provide you with food and shelter and nurses if need be but who will care for you? who will think of you? who will visit you? Who will put up with you when you need something and can't get it yourself? not the nursing home staff....I am sure there is someone you can hire for everything but they won't care. My grandparents are in a nice nursing home. they did well for themselves and planned well. but grandpa still needed his daughter to take him around looking for the right shoes and the right windshield washer fluid. He still needs babies to read to and little hands to draw rings on. Grandma still needs to see her great grandchildren and someone to have breakfast with her. Someone to take her to the store and go grocery shopping with her. I mean she could hire someone but grocery shopping is a joy to her. a chance to get out of her home All her life she had a great friends who were a wonderful support but all their close friends are literally dead and gone (they are in their mid 90s). So now they are left to rely on family for support. Good thing they have always always been there for their kids and grandkids and great grandchildren. They are a blessing to us and we consider it an honor to bless them. Nothing concerning them is a burden to me.

Support is about so much more than money. taking care of people needs is about so much more than what we can buy for them.
Not to mention money isn't a guarantee. Having money saved up doesn't mean it will be enough. What if one parent ends up permanently and severely disabled at age 40 and the money goes towards bills because the other parent had to quit work to stay home with a completely dependent spouse? I mean, these things aren't likely to happen, but they can. I'd like to raise my kids to be generous and helpful by doing the same for them in their time of need. Even if it means putting me in a nursing home and just coming to visit 4 days a week to make sure I'm getting the best care....I'd like to think they'd take care of me in some way. Money doesn't mean squat if you are stuck in a crappy, abusive elderly home with kids who don't feel the need to check up on you because you alienated them and told them to put on their big girl panties and grow up and stop needing mom and dad.
post #72 of 104
Quote:
Originally Posted by CatsCradle View Post
The issues of co-dependency aside (for adult children), I think it is terribly sad that our culture finds it perfectly acceptable to put the elderly away in assisted living so that the younger generation doesn't have to deal with them. It's like: okay, you're old now, you're a burden, its not my job to take care of you. This really hit home for me when I was a child. My sister and I used to visit nursing homes and let me tell you, although these people were taken well care of physically, they were incredibly lonely and bored. My parents will move into our one-bedroom apartment before I put them in a nursing home, even if it takes certain sacrifices on our parts. I don't think "family" is a "job." It is an extension of your own life and it is a fact of life. Not something to be patted on the back for when you actually do it and not something to check at the doorstep of independence. We complain loudly that the corporate world has devalued the concept of family, but we are actually doing it to ourselves.
I don't think nursing homes are necessarily bad. Some peolple, need the constant medical care and nursing staff they provide. Nor does everyone wish to live with their children or have their children attending to some of the more embarrassing medical needs....Sometimes living with family is the best solution for everyone, sometimes a more assisted living environment is best. My grandparents enjoy their new community quite a bit. It is a good place, it provides for all their medical needs in the comofrt of their home, provides for them a level of independance they would not have in their own home, and autonomy they would not have in their childrens home. It has also fostered some new friendships and oppritunities to be social witout driving. They are not lonely or bored there any more than when they were living in their house. They get regular visitors (and always will), attend family finctions, can come and go as they please, are only a free shuttle ride away to the senior center (which is awesome) and the gym (which has a whole team of staff includfing medical personel dedicated to seniors) and most importantly still close to family. regardless of where they live or why it is important not to forget our seniors, sick and shut ins.


and sometimes supporting someone, letting them know you value them means dropping what you are doing, rearranging your schedule, etc so that you can meet their present, pressing, need. Crisis do not always happen on my schedule. help cannot always be delivered on my schedule. things balance out though. I know people have dropped what they were doing to help me. I know I have dropped what I am doing to help people. and I know if I never did that people wouldn't do it for me. I am fortunate enough to be surrounded by people who truely don't feel put out to help in a crisis. just as I do not feel put out to help in a crisis. I actually consider it an honor when people call on me to help. That they trust me that much. It is not an I owe them since they did it for me, or they owe me because I did it for them so much as "hmmm, this is a good way to live our lives and bear each others burdens. this is love." sort of thing.
post #73 of 104
Quote:
Originally Posted by mamazee View Post
That's different. Having people to visit you and take you around when it works into their schedule is one thing. It's another thing to get angry with someone when they aren't willing and/or able to drop everything at that exact moment to take care of you.
Again, I don't think anyone is expecting parents, or adult children, to drop everything at a moment's notice to help someone go pick out a new pair of shoes. But to provide as much help as possible in a moment of crisis? Absolutely. To take some sort of priority over trivial things in the lives of people who claim to care for you? Absolutely. Frankly, parents who won't be there when needed for their adult children can probably expect that their children might not be there for them at all in the future. If I had a mother who refused to help me when I needed help and she was able to provide it (again, barring issues of drug use, etc), I'm not sure I would feel obligated to help her go buy shoes when she's too old to drive herself. I might think, "Wow, this woman has never been there for me when I needed her my entire adult life, and now she expects me to visit her at the nursing home and take her out to lunch and to the beauty parlor? Fat chance. I'll do the bare minimum, just like she did."
post #74 of 104
I guess I just see this from another perspective. "If she didn't come, either there was something up that was more than I was aware, or she didn't really know how bad things were." I wouldn't assume that she was just shopping for one thing. I'd assume that what she was doing had changed, or there must have been something going on that was greater than I knew. Or that she didn't know how I felt. And I'd move on and ask someone else, without getting upset that my mom hadn't dropped everything for me. I'm not going to set up some kind of situation where either my mom drops everything for me or I sit and pick apart her reasons for not coming and decide if I think they were valid. If she can come, then great, but if she can't then I need to move on with things.
post #75 of 104
I apologize to the posters above if I sounded judgmental about nursing homes and assisted living as an alternative for elder care. That wasn't my intent at all. I just remember having my great grandparents and grandparents close by...even living in the house...and no one batted an eye. It was the norm and an accepted fact of life. I just don't know how we've moved so far away from that (including myself). I doubt if things were always loving and peachy in those days...but I think the sense of family and familial responsibilities had a much larger scope, and even extended to close family friends. Like someone said above, there was a greater sense of community and people valued close ties. This is still the practice in many cultures today. My mom and I were just saying the other day how we used to go over to neighbors' houses and we didn't even call beforehand. Now (at least in my circles), you have to call first, make play dates, schedule far in advance. Are we that busy and preoccupied?
post #76 of 104
Quote:
Originally Posted by bandgeek View Post
Not to mention money isn't a guarantee. Having money saved up doesn't mean it will be enough. What if one parent ends up permanently and severely disabled at age 40 and the money goes towards bills because the other parent had to quit work to stay home with a completely dependent spouse? I mean, these things aren't likely to happen, but they can. I'd like to raise my kids to be generous and helpful by doing the same for them in their time of need. Even if it means putting me in a nursing home and just coming to visit 4 days a week to make sure I'm getting the best care...
My dad became permanently disabled at the age of 60. Mom is only 56. One day, back in June, Dad had a heart attack at work, hit his head on something which caused a bleed, and then proceeded to have a stroke a few hours later in the ER.

5 months later, he's in a nursing home. He's awake and alert, but can't talk and doesn't have much movement in his extremities. He has a tracheostomy, has COPD, a feeding tube and is on supplemental oxygen at night. He communicates mostly through facial expressions.

None of us are really equipped to provide the level of care that Dad needs at home, as much as we would like to bring him home. The nursing home is the next best thing. The facility he's in is close to home, and they're taking great care of him.
post #77 of 104
Quote:
Originally Posted by lilyka View Post
but who will care for you? Money will provide you with food and shelter and nurses if need be but who will care for you? who will think of you? who will visit you?......Good thing they have always always been there for their kids and grandkids and great grandchildren.
here in lies the rub -- if you believe that you should always be able to jump in and be there for your children, then you are NOT raising adults who will be able to be there for you when you need help.

Once our offspring are adults, they really shouldn't need us any more than we need them. Everyone needs a hand from time to time, but that should be a two way street once kids are grown.

Some of the attitudes on this thread about work and responsiblity are just bizarre to me. It's like people really don't want their kids to grow into functional adults.
post #78 of 104
but we all have needs. i don't see where the virtue is in not asking for help every now and then or going somewhere besides your family for help.

I think there will come a time when my children and I need each other equally. and I know there will come a time when I need them more than they need me. i should hope I have raised them well enough that they would step up. Its not that I care so much for my needs but I would be ashamed if I did not raise them better than that. or if they ever turned their back on someone who needed them right then in a crisis situation.
post #79 of 104
There's no problem in asking for help. The problems, as I see them, are:

1. Assuming the worst possible intentions when someone doesn't help you. Maybe something else happened and she was truly unable. Things change.

2. Only having one place to go to if there's a problem. If one person can't help, try someone else.

I think, without those two things in place, there is the potential for an unhealthy, dysfunctional relationship.
post #80 of 104
Quote:
Originally Posted by Linda on the move View Post
here in lies the rub -- if you believe that you should always be able to jump in and be there for your children, then you are NOT raising adults who will be able to be there for you when you need help.

Once our offspring are adults, they really shouldn't need us any more than we need them. Everyone needs a hand from time to time, but that should be a two way street once kids are grown.

Some of the attitudes on this thread about work and responsiblity are just bizarre to me. It's like people really don't want their kids to grow into functional adults.
I don't think anyone here that thinks a parent should help out their kids in times of need doesn't expect that adult children should do the same for their parents.
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