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S/O When does the attachment stop? - Page 5

Poll Results: When does attachment end/kind of support?

 
  • 68% (112)
    Never-child can get any kind of help from me, financial,emotional,etc.
  • 0% (0)
    18-no more $ but I'll be there for emotional support
  • 0% (0)
    18-no more support of any kind, on your own kiddo!
  • 5% (9)
    19-23- no more $ but I'll be there for emotional support
  • 0% (0)
    19-23- no more support after that, on your own!
  • 9% (15)
    Whenever they finish college-no $, I'll be there for emotional support
  • 0% (1)
    whenever they finish college-no more support ,on their own
  • 1% (3)
    when they have their own family-only emotional support
  • 0% (0)
    when they have their own family-no support
  • 14% (24)
    Other
164 Total Votes  
post #81 of 104
Quote:
Originally Posted by mamazee View Post
There's no problem in asking for help. The problems, as I see them, are:

1. Assuming the worst possible intentions when someone doesn't help you. Maybe something else happened and she was truly unable. Things change.

2. Only having one place to go to if there's a problem. If one person can't help, try someone else.

I think, without those two things in place, there is the potential for an unhealthy, dysfunctional relationship.
1) I'm not sure where you are getting that people who think a parent who is unable to help are awful people. I do think that chosing not to help when you don't have a good reason is pretty crappy. And if you have a good reason, that's something that should be conveyed to the person that needs help.

2) Sometimes people are in situations where their family is the only one they can turn to. It happens. Generally it doesn't happen for someone's entire life, but in times of great need, support systems tend to break down. That's when famliy becomes even more important.
post #82 of 104
So where does that leave people? If our moms don't drop everything for us, without giving an answer that we should get to hear and determine if we think the answer is good enough, our moms are bad moms. And they should feel awful! This leads to all kinds of dysfunction. People should give themselves freely. If they don't, we need to let it go. It doesn't provide anything for us to feel bad because our moms don't give themselves freely. If they do give themselves freely, then we can appreciate that. But to either expect our moms to be obligated at any time for us, and have all moms have this guilt cloud over their heads about whether they are able of determining well enough how badly we need them, and then whether their reasons for not being able to help are good enough or not, is just not healthy.

I try to manage things myself. If I think I could use help, I call someone. If that person can't come, I don't worry about why or if that person has a "good enough" reason, or if that person is selfish or really cares about me, because that doesn't give me anything. The most it will do is build resentment and guilt and expectations between me and that person. I move on to the next person. I don't put my relationship with anyone in a position where it will be damaged if she doesn't come to me and I don't think her reason is good enough for me. As if I can know everything that's going on in someone else's life to really understand everything behind their reasons, or as if they can or should have to communicate that with me. I can trust or I can not trust that I'm cared for and that the person is doing their best. I don't need to put the person on trial.
post #83 of 104
Quote:
Originally Posted by lilyka View Post
but who will care for you? Money will provide you with food and shelter and nurses if need be but who will care for you? who will think of you? who will visit you? Who will put up with you when you need something and can't get it yourself?
I think that relationships go both ways.

I hope that I have a good enough relationship with my children that they will do those things. I hope that I raise them in such a way that they want to spend time with me later, just I hope they are people who I want to spend time with.

But I hold no illusions that those things will be a given. It is quite possible that one, or more, of my children and I will not have that kind of relationship. Not everyone is compatible with everyone else. I hope it doesn't happen, but we may grow apart. One of the families I knew growing up who actually practiced AP had that happen. There were 4 kids. 3 still have active meaningful relationships with their parents, the 4th moved out once she was financially able and visits once every year or so at Christmas.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bandgeek View Post
Not to mention money isn't a guarantee. Having money saved up doesn't mean it will be enough. What if one parent ends up permanently and severely disabled at age 40 and the money goes towards bills because the other parent had to quit work to stay home with a completely dependent spouse? I mean, these things aren't likely to happen, but they can. I'd like to raise my kids to be generous and helpful by doing the same for them in their time of need. Even if it means putting me in a nursing home and just coming to visit 4 days a week to make sure I'm getting the best care....I'd like to think they'd take care of me in some way. Money doesn't mean squat if you are stuck in a crappy, abusive elderly home with kids who don't feel the need to check up on you because you alienated them and told them to put on their big girl panties and grow up and stop needing mom and dad.
It's called "Long Term Disability" insurance. We have LTD for DH at his job. The career I'm working towards (after this baby comes) will also come with LTD. If DH lost his job we would qualify for LTD through our insurance company. We have short term disability (2 years) on our mortgage.
post #84 of 104
Quote:
Originally Posted by Smokering View Post
Really? I wouldn't. And not because I don't love my daughter. I think being able to live without working is a dangerous privilege even for people who have earned it by their own hard work; but potentially character-crushing for kids who were born into that privilege. I don't want comfort for my daughter more than I want her to learn responsibility, the merits of hard work, the situation 99% of the world has to deal with.

Which is not to say I'm going to chuck her in a sweatshop at the age of ten or anything. But yeah... no. It'll be a minor miracle if DH and I end up fabulously wealthy, but if we did I'd want that to be something we used to enrich her life and teach her, not to let her opt out of a VERY vital and meaningful part of life - that of earning one's daily bread.
Yes, really. I feel like there is so much more I could accomplish -- as a mother, a partner, and a citizen of the world -- if I didn't have to devote 30 hours a week to a paying job. I wouldn't let my kids get away with a completely free ride -- I would expect them to be highly contributing members of society, enriching their own lives and their families' lives, as well as volunteering/working for good causes, but I would be happy to allow them the freedom from needing to work for an income.
post #85 of 104
I said other because I think it depends on the situation. For the most part, I can't see an arbitrary cut-off, but I will encourage financial independence and may not "bail them out" of every mess once they're in college or older.
post #86 of 104
Quote:
Originally Posted by JL83 View Post
My problem is the expectation people seem to have that a mother would drop everything simply because she's the "mother".
Well then I'm totally lost. Between this thread and the other one, you've taken issue with the expectations of adults, saying such things like having to "suck it up", "stand on your own two feet", and showing such a "break down of control". To me that doesn't read like someone taking issue with WHO they are asking for help, but the fact that they ARE asking for help.

Quote:
You're an adult. While it would be "nice" for your mom to drop everything and come get your kids, it's neither her job nor responsibility.
Quote:
I do think that part of being an adultis holding it together until you have someone come and take the kids.
Quote:
I do think that one of the parts of adulthood is being able to hold it together when you need to.
Quote:
Also, sometimes adults don't get the luxury of giving into our emotions the moment we feel like it. That is part of being a grown up. You do need to suck it up and wait for an appropriate time.
Quote:
Part of being an adult is learning to stand on your own 2 feet.
Quote:
Part of being an adult is having control over one's emotions.
Quote:
I probably am dismissive of adults crying. It is such a breakdown of control.
Quote:
I think that adults should have the level of control to keep it together until they have support in place.
post #87 of 104
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jessy1019 View Post
Yes, really. I feel like there is so much more I could accomplish -- as a mother, a partner, and a citizen of the world -- if I didn't have to devote 30 hours a week to a paying job. I wouldn't let my kids get away with a completely free ride -- I would expect them to be highly contributing members of society, enriching their own lives and their families' lives, as well as volunteering/working for good causes, but I would be happy to allow them the freedom from needing to work for an income.
Which would leave you in the parent role forever -- constantly getting to decide if they were doing enough to keep you happy or if you should cut them off. It's a set up for disfunction.

I really like the amount of money that my DH and I have for the sake of our kids. We can help them get good educations -- all the way through grad school if they want. But we cannot support them forever. Eventually, they have to figure out their own lives.

I think that's the crux of what this thread is about -- it's not about whether or not all adults need a little extra help from time to time, but it's about whether or not you see yourself staying in your role of Parent to your Child for all their lives. I don't. I see my offspring becoming adults who are not children. I don't plan on *parenting* them forever.
post #88 of 104
Quote:
Originally Posted by Linda on the move View Post
Which would leave you in the parent role forever -- constantly getting to decide if they were doing enough to keep you happy or if you should cut them off. It's a set up for disfunction.
I disagree. I give my friends money periodically, if they need it for a reason that seems good to me -- sometimes that's bus fare to get to work for a week before payday, sometimes it's to buy xmas presents for their kids, sometimes it's because they are just having a really rough time and I can afford to make their lives easier. That doesn't mean I'm parenting them -- just choosing where to spend the extra money I'm fortunate enough to have.

If my kid has the great ambition to do something really valuable with his or her life, and I can afford to do it, you can bet your ass I'm going to finance it. That's not parenting -- that's just contributing to the betterment of the world, as far as I'm concerned.
post #89 of 104
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Linda on the move View Post
I think that's the crux of what this thread is about -- it's not about whether or not all adults need a little extra help from time to time, but it's about whether or not you see yourself staying in your role of Parent to your Child for all their lives. I don't. I see my offspring becoming adults who are not children. I don't plan on *parenting* them forever.

If you look at the poll results, I think you'll find that the majority here feel that being available for your adult children is the norm. That does not mean we'll all be raising dependent, irresponsible, immature adults who cannot cope in society. I daresay that most of us will raise responsible, productive members of society who will go on to have families of their own. However, for us, that also means that we know that the door is open for mutual support. Maybe Mom has a crisis and needs her daughter to help out with some things for a while. Maybe grandpa falls and breaks an ankle and needs to move in with his grandson for a few weeks. Or maybe grown daughter gets fired and in the same week finds out her husband cheated on her, and has a mini breakdown, needs her mom and reaches out.

THAT is support and what family is for. That is all examples with different generations and isn't it wonderful when the family dynamic is such that it works out so well. It is not about "parenting them forever" and I really have no idea where that came from.
post #90 of 104
Quote:
Originally Posted by North_Of_60 View Post
Well then I'm totally lost. Between this thread and the other one, you've taken issue with the expectations of adults, saying such things like having to "suck it up", "stand on your own two feet", and showing such a "break down of control". To me that doesn't read like someone taking issue with WHO they are asking for help, but the fact that they ARE asking for help.

Then you have misunderstood.

There are 2 issues at play.

1) I don't think an adult has the luxury of breaking down until they have made arrangements to take care of their children. That's true. I do think that adult should be able to keep going 1 step at a time until they are in a situation where it's OK, by whatever rules they want to play by, for them to let loose.

2) I don't think that arbitrary family ties mean that 1 adult is obligated to do things for another. I think that depends on the relationship and how that plays out. I think that once a child reaches adult hood they need to put effort into the relationship if they want it to continue. The OP of the other thread made it clear in one of her updates that she does not have such a relationship with her mother. Which just confuses me as to why she was upset that her mother didn't come to her immediately.
post #91 of 104
I couldn't vote -- there are too many variables at play. If they were responsible adults who got in a bind, sure, I'd be there in a heartbeat. If they continually made terrible decisions or if I felt like they were using me and all I was doing was contributing to dysfunction, then I'd probably be practicing tough love.

My own mother is a good example of both -- my brother and I are responsible people who do our best for our families but occasionally need help, and she never hesitates for a second to help us, and does so willingly and joyfully. My mom's sister, on the other hand (who is much younger than my mom and who she essentially raised), is very irresponsible and doesn't do anything to advance her situation except stick out her hand, and my mom is very frustrated with her and resents the help she's expected to provide in a way that she's never for a second resented me or my brother.
post #92 of 104
Quote:
Originally Posted by JL83 View Post
Then you have misunderstood.
Clearly.
post #93 of 104

my dh

my dh has a fantastic relationship with his parents, who raised him doing lots of ap stuff.
right now, he and his dad are downstairs installing a new microwave together in our kitchen.
his da does lots of stuff to help him, yet my dh has done very well on his own, managing money, running a business, etc. the ap never has seemed to stop and it doesn't seem to be anything anyone thinks about. it flows both ways, though, for example, dh will help cut down trees and chop wood for da, etc.
i think it's just what it means to be a solid family. dh never had issues with needing "bailing out" from his family -- which i think is the goal of ap anyway. he's been an independent adult since he's been an adult, yet there is lots of "help" with needs, etc. when the occasion arises/ and dh gives as much as he gets.
post #94 of 104
Quote:
Originally Posted by hildare View Post
and dh gives as much as he gets.
And I think that's key. That means there's a real relationship going. That's my goal as well.
post #95 of 104
My hope and dream is that I will be able to continue giving my daughter support as she needs throughout her life, while allowing her to gain her full "adulthood" and be able to be her own person.
post #96 of 104
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by limabean View Post
I couldn't vote -- there are too many variables at play. If they were responsible adults who got in a bind, sure, I'd be there in a heartbeat. If they continually made terrible decisions or if I felt like they were using me and all I was doing was contributing to dysfunction, then I'd probably be practicing tough love.

My own mother is a good example of both -- my brother and I are responsible people who do our best for our families but occasionally need help, and she never hesitates for a second to help us, and does so willingly and joyfully. My mom's sister, on the other hand (who is much younger than my mom and who she essentially raised), is very irresponsible and doesn't do anything to advance her situation except stick out her hand, and my mom is very frustrated with her and resents the help she's expected to provide in a way that she's never for a second resented me or my brother.
I thought I made it clear in my OP that we are NOT talking about enabling or any kind of using sitch. I'd think that most of us have the goal of wanting to raise healthy, well adjusted, functioning adults.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hildare View Post
my dh has a fantastic relationship with his parents, who raised him doing lots of ap stuff.
right now, he and his dad are downstairs installing a new microwave together in our kitchen.
his da does lots of stuff to help him, yet my dh has done very well on his own, managing money, running a business, etc. the ap never has seemed to stop and it doesn't seem to be anything anyone thinks about. it flows both ways, though, for example, dh will help cut down trees and chop wood for da, etc.
i think it's just what it means to be a solid family. dh never had issues with needing "bailing out" from his family -- which i think is the goal of ap anyway. he's been an independent adult since he's been an adult, yet there is lots of "help" with needs, etc. when the occasion arises/ and dh gives as much as he gets.
THIS exactly. I don't think it's that hard to understand. Your DH, I'm sure, is able to stand on his own 2 feet, has coping skills, etc. right?

Quote:
Originally Posted by JL83 View Post
And I think that's key. That means there's a real relationship going. That's my goal as well.
Where did anyone say there wasn't a real relationship going? I'm not sure I'm quite getting your mindset.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Swirly View Post
My hope and dream is that I will be able to continue giving my daughter support as she needs throughout her life, while allowing her to gain her full "adulthood" and be able to be her own person.
Yes. YES! It's so simple ! This is what most of us want and are tring to say.
post #97 of 104
Quote:
Originally Posted by Latte Mama View Post
I thought I made it clear in my OP that we are NOT talking about enabling or any kind of using sitch. I'd think that most of us have the goal of wanting to raise healthy, well adjusted, functioning adults.
Okay. My answer is still "it depends," though. I'll support my kids always, within reason and within my abilities. There's no age or life situation that would make my answer be yes or no, it would just depend on all the circumstances (my kids' and my own) combined.

And like with my own very supportive, loving mother who does as much as she can (which is a lot!) but also has her own (reasonable, IMO) limitations, I'll hope that my kids have compassion for where I'm coming from too and aren't quick to write me off as selfish or uncaring during the rare times when I'm unable to provide immediate assistance.
post #98 of 104
Quote:
Originally Posted by Latte Mama View Post
I thought I made it clear in my OP that we are NOT talking about enabling or any kind of using sitch. I'd think that most of us have the goal of wanting to raise healthy, well adjusted, functioning adults.
this is the most popular option: "-child can get any kind of help from me, financial,emotional,etc"

That's already not true in our house, and my oldest is only 13. My kids want more money and one wants more emotional support than is reasonable. I feel, based on my experience with my offspring, that saying "I have confidence taht you can deal with that yourself" is appropriate at times. I feel that, depending on the situation, saying "no" is the best parenting.

I do not believe that "-child can get any kind of help from me, financial,emotional,etc" is the best way to end up with well adjusted, functioning adults. I'm sure the child's temperment makes a big difference.

Just for the record, my kids co-slept forever, tandem nursed, were carried in slings, have only ever experienced gentle discpline, and spent most of their childhoods homeschooling in a relaxed way. My AP creditials are very solid. None the less, my kids' concept of a crises they need me to help them with and my concept of a crises they need me to help them with aren't always the same.
post #99 of 104
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Linda on the move View Post
this is the most popular option: "-child can get any kind of help from me, financial,emotional,etc"

That's already not true in our house, and my oldest is only 13. My kids want more money and one wants more emotional support than is reasonable. I feel, based on my experience with my offspring, that saying "I have confidence taht you can deal with that yourself" is appropriate at times. I feel that, depending on the situation, saying "no" is the best parenting.

I do not believe that "-child can get any kind of help from me, financial,emotional,etc" is the best way to end up with well adjusted, functioning adults. I'm sure the child's temperment makes a big difference.

Just for the record, my kids co-slept forever, tandem nursed, were carried in slings, have only ever experienced gentle discpline, and spent most of their childhoods homeschooling in a relaxed way. My AP creditials are very solid. None the less, my kids' concept of a crises they need me to help them with and my concept of a crises they need me to help them with aren't always the same.
I don't think the poll option would have let me write out a long winded answer. I think that most of us undertood the response does not mean when our 25 year old wants to quit their great career, traipse around Europe that we'll finance it by selling our house because we can't say no.

It means that if that 25 year old wants to travel Europe that we discuss it with them, make sure they have a good, solid plan in place and tell them to go for their dream!

I'm certainly not advocating giving an adult child unlimited supply of financial and emotional support at anytime for anything because they can't do anything for themself. However, my child and I will hopefully have the type of relationship where he is confident, secure, yet able to come to me for help if need be.
post #100 of 104
Quote:
Originally Posted by Linda on the move View Post
this is the most popular option: "-child can get any kind of help from me, financial,emotional,etc"

That's already not true in our house, and my oldest is only 13. My kids want more money and one wants more emotional support than is reasonable. I feel, based on my experience with my offspring, that saying "I have confidence taht you can deal with that yourself" is appropriate at times. I feel that, depending on the situation, saying "no" is the best parenting.

I do not believe that "-child can get any kind of help from me, financial,emotional,etc" is the best way to end up with well adjusted, functioning adults. I'm sure the child's temperment makes a big difference.

Just for the record, my kids co-slept forever, tandem nursed, were carried in slings, have only ever experienced gentle discpline, and spent most of their childhoods homeschooling in a relaxed way. My AP creditials are very solid. None the less, my kids' concept of a crises they need me to help them with and my concept of a crises they need me to help them with aren't always the same.

Thank you for this post.
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