Natural skeptics -- could you take hypnobabies seriously? - Page 2

[Artichokie]

Originally Posted by Astraia

I thought i might be too critical for hypnobabies. I'm not really a skeptic, and not really *that* snarky, lol - but I thought I might be unable to turn off my "logical" mind.

I put a lot of time and energy into it for awhile. I believed 100% that it was a beneficial program. But despite my best efforts, my mind focused in on grammar problems, the sound of her swallowing, phrases that bugged me, etc (like, "I deserve an easy, fast, and comfortable birthing"- DESERVE? Who actually DESERVES something like that? What have I done to deserve anything?)

Anyway, it's not working for me. My mind won't relax enough to take it seriously, and I'm always analyzing how I feel - am I relaxed enough? Is this relaxed? Damn, I moved. Whoops, now I'm tense because I'm trying not to move. How do you know when you're hypnotized? Is this hypnosis? Probably not, because I'm thinking about it so much.

So yeah. I do think that certain types of people would take to it better than others. I'm just glad I didn't pay full price

Its been two years since I used this, but what stands out in my mind when I think back was how horribly distracting the grammar problems were. I just couldn't take seriously anyone who used that many exclamation points, either.

[*MamaJen*]

I am a HUGE skeptic, and very analytic. I had a homebirth after wading through dozens of research studies, when I talk about birth I throw around phrases like "evidence-based medicine," and I have a very low tolerance for what I call "glurge".
I don't know that hypnobabies would have been a good match for me -- I do find the recording kind of cheesy-- and I didn't do any studied method of birthing. I pretty much just researched everything I could about birth.
That said, when it actually came time to labor, I totally slipped into a complete state of hypnosis. I wasn't trying to, it just kind of happened. All my instincts were telling me to go curl up in a quiet dark place away from everyone, which I did. I just kind of zoned out. Then I got into the pool, labor took off, and my mind went off into another dimension. I had one of the easiest labors I've ever heard of because of it. There was some pain, but really not much, and mostly I was in this warm fuzzy place where the pain couldn't quite get to me. I snapped out of it whenever someone tried to talk to me too much, and when that happened, it hurt until I could get back to that laborland place. I totally forgot I was in labor -- I was really surprised when the baby started coming out. I was actually falling asleep sitting upright in the tub. There are a couple of places in the birth video where I try to talk and it just sounds like gibberish.
If you had hooked electrodes up to my brain I'm sure it would have shown I was in a state of deep hypnosis. Honestly, if felt like I had just taken a whole lot of psychedelic drugs.
It was definitely a pretty good way to get through labor, and I think nature or evolution or whatever has equipped a lot of women to get to that hypnotic state, that endorphine rush or runner's high or whatever you want to call it, as a way to manage childbirth pain. But in a hospital setting I think it must be really hard to reach that hypnotic space, unless you had birth attendants that really respected the birthing space. I think any setting or mood where you were feeling very scared or threatened would make it difficult to relax that deeply.
So getting back to hypnobabies, I don't know that it would have helped me -- maybe it would have, or maybe it would have been a distraction keeping me from getting to the headspace I was in. But if it helps women relax and have a hypnotic birth, hey, it's worth a try.

[Sk8ermaiden]

Originally Posted by Astraia

Not really. The only thing i noticed grammar wise i couldn't even figure out if it was wrong or not, or if it just sounded weird.

The specific phrase is "deeper relaxed." As in, "you will feel deeper relaxed. Deeper and deeper relaxed."

If you can get over that (which in most cases I can, I just repeated it to myself a lot during the day so it didn't sound as weird) then it's not a big deal.

At least three people have mentioned grammar problems, so I'm not taking any chances. I'm the kind of person who corrects the grammar and spelling on signs in public and "deeper relaxed" (instead of the correct, "more deeply relaxed" or "deeper and deeper into relaxation") would wind me up pretty badly. One of my favorite bands has a song that includes the line "always more greener on the other side," and after 13 years of listening to it, it still makes me insane.

[ExuberantDaffodil]

I'm a huge grammar nerd. And an English teacher. And a chronic-grammar-correcter.

But I wanted hypnobabies to work. I wanted the tools that it taught me. I wanted to be able to cope with the intensity of labor. So I just listened to the cd's when I was going to sleep and taught myself how to implement the techniques. I think it all depends, honestly, on if you want it to work and believe that it can.

[Veritaserum]

Originally Posted by ExuberantDaffodil

I'm a huge grammar nerd. And an English teacher. And a chronic-grammar-correcter.

But I wanted hypnobabies to work. I wanted the tools that it taught me. I wanted to be able to cope with the intensity of labor. So I just listened to the cd's when I was going to sleep and taught myself how to implement the techniques. I think it all depends, honestly, on if you want it to work and believe that it can.

My degree is in linguistics, so grammar issues are definitely on my radar. Something important to realize is that the language of hypnosis has to be phrased differently. The reason why it's "deeper relaxed" instead of "relax more deeply" is because "deeper relaxed" is better understood by the subconscious. That is the whole point.

I could have let the language bug me, but I knew that would make it more difficult to achieve the easier, more comfortable birth I wanted.

[alton]

I'm hyper-analytical and sort of had to convince myself that it was going to work for me. I listened to the recordings the same way I'd listen to a relaxation CD, just try and chill out and go with the flow.
What I found was that it really eliminated a lot of fear for me before labour which was great because I am also the queen of anxiety.
However, as soon as I was in labour, I couldn't listen to it. The sound of the voice on my CD made me nauseous. I tried a couple of times but had to put it away. I also didn't really want to shut out my husband from one of the most exciting developments of our lives, and stick on a set of headphones.
He tried repeating some of the mantras I'd been using, and tried a script that we'd developed together but just got told off for his trouble. I don't know why but when the contractions came (eh, they were contractions not surges ) I just couldn't handle any of that "nonsense".
Another factor for me, was that I had read way too much about hospital interference and instead of being in a calm state of mind, I felt as if I was doing battle with my carers! Not a great state of mind to be in.
This time, I'm going to try and take some of the principles on board - put more effort into creating a "safe space" for myself, and getting into the zone, but not rely on a particular track on a cd.

[Bluegoat]

Originally Posted by Veritaserum

My degree is in linguistics, so grammar issues are definitely on my radar. Something important to realize is that the language of hypnosis has to be phrased differently. The reason why it's "deeper relaxed" instead of "relax more deeply" is because "deeper relaxed" is better understood by the subconscious. That is the whole point.

I could have let the language bug me, but I knew that would make it more difficult to achieve the easier, more comfortable birth I wanted.

You know, I had wondered about something like that, because the way things on the CDs are phrased seems very deliberate to me, especially the oddities.

Why is it that "deeper relaxed" is accepted more readily by the sub-conscious? Is it just more direct or a simpler grammatical structure?

[Sudonk]

Originally Posted by jenfl

I like the idea of the hypnobabies labor relief, but I'm not sure how seriously I'll be able to take it. I'm a natural skeptic. I tend toward sarcasm. I listened to one of their samples, but was laying on the couch, making snarky remarks to DH throughout. I just couldn't help it.

I'd love to hear if others with a similar personality were able to take it seriously and get some benefit out of it, or did you just find yourself giggling through the tapes?

I'm a majorly skeptical science nerd (and engineer - the ultimate nerd) with a tendency to be sarcastic if something makes me uncomfortable, and especially if I'm worried about looking stupid to others. I was very concerned that using hypnosis for my birth would make me look like an idiot, and that made me self-conscious about learning it. But after struggling with it for a few days, I finally decided that I WANTED what the program offered. The bottom line was that a calm, comfortable, enjoyable birth was good for my baby, my husband and myself. So I simply put the skepticism aside and decided to be mature and embrace it instead of hiding my insecurities behind snarkiness. As Hypnobabies states repeatedly, self-hypnosis is a choice, and being snarky about it turned out to be a choice as well. My Hypnobabies births were amazing, and I'm so glad I made the choice I did. It was life-changing.

[Sudonk]

Originally Posted by Astraia

I was totally committed to making it work. I thought it was the most awesome sounding program ever. I made DH re-work our budget so we could buy it. I'm really frustrated that it isn't working for me but i don't think it's a level of commitment problem here.

I try to make my head shut up. I'm not trying to make fun of it. Even trying to focus on every word she says, the second my mind starts to wander it's game over.

It's the same reason why I'm such an insomniac. The second i start to feel relaxed enough to start to fall asleep my brain goes, "ooh, perfect, you're falling asleep" and then I tense up and have to start all over. It's exhausting.

I do think that there are some people for whom a self-hypnosis guide will never work- and I firmly believe that it's not because we're not trying hard enough.

What you're describing is perfectly normal, and not a problem at all. It's not that you're "not trying hard enough", it's more that you are trying too hard. If you are doing the reading and listening to the scripts daily and in the proper order, you are doing it "right". It doesn't matter if your mind wanders. It doesn't even matter if your body doesn't relax every time you listen. The point is to get all those powerful post-hypnotic suggestions into your subconscious mind, which will happen whether your conscious mind is wondering what you need from the store or focusing on the script.

[Sudonk]

It's important to realize that self-hypnosis scripts are written for the subconscious mind. The whole point is to accept new beliefs or knowledge into the subconscious mind, where they can benefit us with or without the need for conscious thought. It's no different than the way we adapt our language to suit the audience when we're talking to a couple toddlers as opposed to their parents. If we get caught up in what our conscious mind thinks of the scripts, we'll all find them hokey and silly and simplistic. They often are, because that is what our subconscious mind understands! But if you understand what self-hypnosis is and the potential benefits of listening to the scripts, our conscious "take" on the scripts doesn't matter. It's actually fine to find your conscious mind laughing at, snarking about or even disliking some of the scripts. As long as you're giving your subconscious mind the opportunity to hear them and absorb the suggestions, that doesn't matter. Most of the people who don't enjoy the scripts, or who find they can't stop mentally arguing with them, simply put them on at night and listen in their sleep. Problem solved.

Originally Posted by Bluegoat

Why is it that "deeper relaxed" is accepted more readily by the sub-conscious? Is it just more direct or a simpler grammatical structure?

"Deeper" is a key word that is used specifically throughout the scripts. The subconscious mind is extremely literal and script wording must be simplified to ensure understanding on a subconscious level. "More deeply relaxed" doesn't use the key word, so it's not going to create the desired association between relaxation and the key word.

And someone else mentioned the suggestions about "deserving" a good birth. Not everyone needs that suggestion, but there are definitely women out there who find their insecurities playing a big role in their birth. Sometimes it's women who have spent a lifetime being told how horrible their birth was for their mother. Or it may just be a woman who always focuses on doing things for others and sees any time spent on her own desires or well-being as "selfish". I'm always glad when women don't understand that line, because it implies to me that they probably don't need it! But there are plenty of women who find that line plays a powerful role in achieving the birth they want.

[mwherbs]

Originally Posted by Sudonk

I'm a majorly skeptical science nerd (and engineer - the ultimate nerd) with a tendency to be sarcastic if something makes me uncomfortable, and especially if I'm worried about looking stupid to others. I was very concerned that using hypnosis for my birth would make me look like an idiot, and that made me self-conscious about learning it. But after struggling with it for a few days, I finally decided that I WANTED what the program offered. The bottom line was that a calm, comfortable, enjoyable birth was good for my baby, my husband and myself. So I simply put the skepticism aside and decided to be mature and embrace it instead of hiding my insecurities behind snarkiness. As Hypnobabies states repeatedly, self-hypnosis is a choice, and being snarky about it turned out to be a choice as well. My Hypnobabies births were amazing, and I'm so glad I made the choice I did. It was life-changing.

yes, this was well put

[bjorker]

Wow, great thread. I have to admit this is totally me too, and this was something on my mind. Thanks for all the responses everyone.

[zoebird]

i think that when it comes to hypnosis, in any of it's various uses, it is helpful to understand what hypnosis is, how it works and why, and then determine whether or not your "believe" that.

i did not use hypnobabies or hypnobirthing. until i learned a bit more about hypnosis in the book The Future of the Body by Michael Murphy chapter 15, i didn't really "believe" in it per se. that is to say, i didn't know much about it, how or whether it worked, and so on.

so, i didn't use it. for me, "believing" in something is the important element. that is, if you think/believe that it will work, and you practice it, then it will work. and that seems to be true of a number of techniques

for my own part, i used meditation. i've been a meditator for nearly 20 years now, so i am rather adept at that calm/relaxed and focused/aware state. in fact, i characterise the predominance of my labor (from 8 am until about 10 pm) as being an amazing meditation.

i had an entirealy pleasurable birth. 12:30 am to 8/8:30 am was restful and orgasmic/ticklish; 8/8:30 am until 10 pm was meditative/peaceful; 10-10:30 was the "transition" where my husband and i talked, i told him i was tired and wanted to finish already, etc; and then 10:30-12:30 was ecstatic movement and sounding.

i know that hypnosis and meditation have some commonalities, so meditation might be an option for you to explore as well. but if that's difficult (and it is more difficult than hypnosis, from what i understand), then hypnobabies should work, if you practice it and believe that it will work as you are practicing it.

[*MamaJen*]

Originally Posted by alton

Another factor for me, was that I had read way too much about hospital interference and instead of being in a calm state of mind, I felt as if I was doing battle with my carers! Not a great state of mind to be in.
This time, I'm going to try and take some of the principles on board - put more effort into creating a "safe space" for myself, and getting into the zone, but not rely on a particular track on a cd.

Yeah, I think that's an important point -- you're not going to get into that relaxed hypnotic space if you're not in an environment that feels safe to you. I think it would be really hard to have a hypnotic birth in a hospital, unless maybe you were delivering with a provider who was really supportive of natural birth.
It's interesting looking at the interplay of brain chemicals like adrenaline, released during stress, and then endorphins and oxytocin.

[elmh23]

I couldn't take it seriously either. I just started laughing at it.

[Sudonk]

Originally Posted by *MamaJen*

Yeah, I think that's an important point -- you're not going to get into that relaxed hypnotic space if you're not in an environment that feels safe to you. I think it would be really hard to have a hypnotic birth in a hospital, unless maybe you were delivering with a provider who was really supportive of natural birth.
It's interesting looking at the interplay of brain chemicals like adrenaline, released during stress, and then endorphins and oxytocin.

Actually, the majority of Hypnobabies births occur in the hospital. Not only because most women birth in a hospital, but also because so many high-risk moms use Hypnobabies to improve their odds of having as safe a birth as possible. Hypnobabies goes into detail about that interplay of hormones as well as how and why hypnosis makes such a difference. Being in hypnosis causes a release of endorphins. (And who doesn't want some extra endorphins during birth?) The body can't make stress hormones and "happy hormones" at the same time, so women using hypnosis during their birth are less likely to experience problems due to the "fear-tension-pain" syndrome. It wasn't until years after my first hypnosis birth that I learned more about the physical aspect of what goes on while in hypnosis and began to understand why it was so easy to remain calm and focused even during some pretty extreme and potentially scary complications. My body was too busy pumping out endorphins to take the bait and get stressed, so my mind very easily stayed positive and focused as well.

But you're right, all women choosing NCB should find a supportive caregiver, no matter where they give birth. However, I think that's essential no matter how the mom chooses to prepare for her birth!

[alton]

Originally Posted by Sudonk

Actually, the majority of Hypnobabies births occur in the hospital. Not only because most women birth in a hospital, but also because so many high-risk moms use Hypnobabies to improve their odds of having as safe a birth as possible. !

Just out of interest, when I was preparing for my hospital birth, there was a strong emphasis within my hypnobirthing programme on developing a partnership with your husband/partner where your job was to be in labour and his was to protect your space. It was a different programme than hypnobabies, but the principles are the same.