When is it no longer good for both mother and child?

[NamastePlatypus]

First of all if you knew me you would know how are this is for me to think or talk about. I was sad when my first self weaning while pregnant with my second at three. He was a different child though. Junah will be two in Feb too young to wean IMO, but I am having a really hard time with him though. He won't eat solid food unless I am not around or it is crap food ( super sweet or salty) He nurses at least twice an hour, both sides, day and night. He is VERY clingy, fussy, cries about 80 percent of the day. When he is being independent and happy he is awesome, but that is very fleeting. ANytime I sit it means he HAS to nurse. ( including when I have to take a bathroom break!) I know they say EB is good for as long as it is good for both, when do I know that this is not helping either of us? I still haven't started AF ( don't get me wrong, I am LOVING that) but my hormones seem so out of whack, I am very short tempered, I can't GET enough calories, I don't get sleep ( we cosleep but he nurses every hour both sides at least). I feel VERY selfish and like a crap mom even saying this but I dont know what to do. All my friends and fam say end it but it isn't that easy for me....

[nannymom]

My dd weened at 2 1/2 and the way she nursed and behaved about nursing is exactly what you are describing with your child except for the not eating part.

I was going through a horrible time emotionaly and she was nursing multiple times an hour and it was making me really angry and resentful. I was exausted because she nursed all night long. She thought any time I sat down meant time to nurse and it would just make my blood feel hot.

It was also not so great for her because it controled her life. She would rarely leave my side to go play or interact with other kids because she would rather nurse.

I had always planned to nurse her until when ever she wanted to stop. I felt so torn and sad and guilty and yet every part of my body was telling me it had enough. I asked her if she thought she might want to stop and she said one more time and that was seriously the end of it.

I couldn't beleive how easy it was. She switched to feeling my boobs like a lovey which is a whole different issue especialy with a new baby on the way but oh well.

I think we are told to listen to our bodies and our hearts about so many parenting issues but for some reason often told to ignore very real feelings and instincts about when to ween because it goes against a certian dogma.

[NamastePlatypus]

thank you so much mama!!!

[NamastePlatypus]

anybody else?

[InMediasRes]

I weaned my DS at 19mo for many of the same reasons you describe. I was also pregnant and had excruciating nipple pain, and had had supply problems with DS and didn't want to have to "share" milk with the new baby if I had the issue again. It was all very gradual and I would have abandoned it if I felt like he was having trouble with it. I always look back and wonder if we would have an easier time with him now if he was still nursing, but I know I made the right choice for both of us. Having a miserable mom was worse for him than having to give up his nu nus, and he is still welcome to come back sometimes if he likes (about once every two weeks or so).

It is a hard hard choice, mama, but listen to your heart. I know you have your child's best interest in mind, no matter what you choose.

[pbjmama]

First let me say that if weaning is a solution for you, that is fine and good. But your post made me think of a few other possibilities.

I still haven't started AF ( don't get me wrong, I am LOVING that) but my hormones seem so out of whack, I am very short tempered, I can't GET enough calories, I don't get sleep ( we cosleep but he nurses every hour both sides at least).

Have you had your thyroid checked? Low iron perhaps?

My other thought is that he is just a different kid/going through a developmental change. I often compare my 1st to my 2nd but lucky for me my 2nd is about 99% easier. Sometimes the whining crying, etc is just a personality difference, nothing to do with nursing or parenting.

[NamastePlatypus]

Originally Posted by pbjmama

First let me say that if weaning is a solution for you, that is fine and good. But your post made me think of a few other possibilities.

I still haven't started AF ( don't get me wrong, I am LOVING that) but my hormones seem so out of whack, I am very short tempered, I can't GET enough calories, I don't get sleep ( we cosleep but he nurses every hour both sides at least).

Have you had your thyroid checked? Low iron perhaps?

My other thought is that he is just a different kid/going through a developmental change. I often compare my 1st to my 2nd but lucky for me my 2nd is about 99% easier. Sometimes the whining crying, etc is just a personality difference, nothing to do with nursing or parenting.

THAT is what is keeping me from doing it right now! E was/is high needs ( he is SPD sensory seeking and aspergers) but this is different.
Thank you for the kind words. I know that iron is low for me, I take a supplement for it, but tell me more about thyroid. I thought that would cause you to gain weight. My memory is not what it used to be.

[WeHoMOM]

I totally feel for you and I think it's totally normal to have those feelings. Sometimes I feel like I "hide" from DD in the mornings so she won't see me and will actually eat something. DD is 2 and 8 months and still would prefer to nurse more than just about anything. For me, I realized I needed to set some limits. She just started preschool a few weeks ago, so I'm waiting until she's in a bit longer so I don't create too many changes all at once and then I plan on setting some limits. I'm sure it will be hard for her, but the alternative for me is weaning completely and I'm not sure she's ready for that. She does sleep through the night (of course it's always set back by travel, illness, etc.). Have you tried Jay Gordon's gentle night weaning method? It worked really well for us. I even made her a little book about how she wasn't going to have mama milk at night anymore. Maybe just setting some simple limits, starting small. Only nursing in a certain place maybe, like in his room or in a special chair? Or only at certain times? Maybe make a little book about it. I think they are old enough now to really understand more, so if you do this, just be as clear as you can and also empathize with his feelings about it. Does this make you sad? Is this hard? I've found drawing pictures about what she's feeling really helps.

Hope this helps somehow! Just wanted to offer and option in case you weren't ready to wean yet. The other mamas are right though, you need to listen to yourself and trust your instincts. Oh, and someone else I love reading is Aletha Soelter. She has some great online articles and really helped me to realize that it was okay for DD to express her emotion and work through things with tears, etc. Again, just being there for her and empathizing seems to help alot when she is upset about something. Sometimes I think it's soo much harder for the moms though! I've always nursed on demand, etc so this is something new to me, too! Good luck!

[Teenytoona]

NP, I totally get where you're coming from. I'm not interested in weaning DD totally, per se, but I am interested in weaning her from some of the usual times. In part because I'd like to get her to eat more (and better) and in part because it so limits my already crunched time. I'm considering trying to find a way to eliminate the "morning latte" that she seems to need because it takes so very long and we have little enough time in the mornings as is. We're always late and I just can't handle that any more. I find myself feeling jealous of those people whose kids are our age and they only nurse 4-5 times. heck, DD nurses that many times on a weekday when I'm gone 11 hours. She nurses LOADS more on weekends. IDK. I guess we all have to find some way to balance such things. Heck if I know how, though.

[pbjmama]

Originally Posted by NamastePlatypus

THAT is what is keeping me from doing it right now! E was/is high needs ( he is SPD sensory seeking and aspergers) but this is different.
Thank you for the kind words. I know that iron is low for me, I take a supplement for it, but tell me more about thyroid. I thought that would cause you to gain weight. My memory is not what it used to be.

Well there are different types of thyroid issues, many different symptoms. And sometimes if you get a read they will say it is normal range but it isn't. If you decide to pursue this avenue get your actual #s and do your own research!

I stole this from webmd -

Hyperthyroidism:

* Weight loss despite increased appetite
* Increased heart rate, heart palpitations, higher blood pressure, nervousness, and excessive perspiration
* More frequent bowel movements, sometimes with diarrhea
* Muscle weakness, trembling hands
* Development of a goiter (an enlargement in your neck)
* Lighter or shorter menstrual periods

Hypothyroidism:

* Lethargy, slower mental processes or depression
* Reduced heart rate
* Increased sensitivity to cold
* Tingling or numbness in the hands
* Development of a goiter (an enlargement in your neck)
* Constipation, heavy menstrual periods or dry skin and hair

Subacute thyroiditis:

* Mild to severe pain in the thyroid gland
* The thyroid feels tender to the touch
* Pain or discomfort when swallowing or turning your head
* Appearance of these symptoms shortly after a viral infection, such as the flu, mumps, or measles

Also, my first has some mild sensory issues and that in itself can wear a parent out. I hope you get some answers/resolution soon.

[PlayaMama]

hi teeny! namaste i'm pretty sure you were in our feb '08 ddc too

how funny that we're all here talking about weaning.

linnaea is mostly good at not over nursing but sometimes, MAN, it drives me crazy!!!! it's like constant nursing and it wears me out and i get so crabby. so so SO crabby. that i really think it's not good for anyone.

i weaned lazlo from his final nap time nursing at 2 and it was easy peasy. linnaea has been way more attached to the booba and i think 2 is going to be too soon for her, but i'm kind of dreading that

i've finally started just telling her the boobas are tired or done or sleepy. now that she has the language to understand it.

best of luck!!

[bobandjess99]

Okay, this might not be helpful, but here it is.
I weaned ds early.
With dd, my first, I got to the point where I really disliked nursing, and I pushed through because I felt guilty about weaning, I felt like it was something i should just suck up and sacrifice. But it went horribly sour. it went from me being slightly unhappy, short-tempered, etc to being truly unhappy, resentful and angry - and i directed it at dd. It went past the point where i didn't just hate nursing, i hated dd for nursing. It was an ugly, awful time, filled with guilt and self-recrimination, i felt awful for refusing her, but i felt awful for weaning, so I'd nurse more but hate it, which would set me off, and then I'd hate dd and the cycle would revolve....finally, it ended, thankfully, because one day she literally woke up and had forgotten how to latch. so..that was it.
And i was sad, and it was bittersweet, and i was guilty, but most of all? I was relieved.

this time around, I gave myself permission to wean if ti looked like we were headed down that road again...and to my surprise and joy, nursing ds was so much easier than dd. We went along nicely..until again, at one year, when AF returned, the awful feelings returned..the grew stronger over the course of the next half year, and by 18 months, I knew what I had to do. We weaned relatively slowly, over the course of several months, and by 21 months, he was done. And it is **AWESOME.** He's still a happy healthy little boy. He still got 1.75 years of breastmilk. And I finally have my life/freedom/happiness back! It erally was a GREAT decision on my part. For a couple days, the guilt was there, and the bittersweet sadness...but then, the relief and joy at not having to nurse anymore wiped all that out.

now..we still have issues, lol, lots of them. He's a DIFFICULT child. It's all i can do some days to prevent myself from physically beating him, he's so very difficult. But that one issue is off the table, and it helps. It really does.

[hempmama]

This is pretty off the wall, but that behavior honestly sounds...hungry...to me. All of it. Is there any reason at all your supply might have dipped lately? Or maybe he needs more than the boobs can produce now that he is older. How long has it been going on? Could it be a growth spurt? The nursing relationship does sound like it's having problems, and I weaned both my first and third children early and feel good about it(my third specifically because I resented nursing- I hate nursing, just hate it, and I'd given as much as I could without tarnishing our relationship. I am so, so glad I quit when I did. If anything I think it's easy to go too long in these situations.), but I think the behavior might have some other root causes. What is the issue with food? He refuses it if you are there? Is he involved in food preparation? Is it a power struggle or lack of interest?

Or does this sound way off base to you?

[Logan's mommy]

I'm in the same boat, NamastePlatypus. Ds2 is 14 months old and anytime I'm sitting he wants to be in my lap nursing. If I try to position him differently he gets really fussy and scoots himself into nursing position and yanks at my shirt. He probably spends 60% of the day nursing. I feel that 14 months is far too soon to wean, he's still a baby, but my right nipple has been sore for at least a month ( I think he's gotten lazy about his latch) and at the end of the day I don't want anyone to touch me (dh understands, but isn't very fond of not being able to touch his wife )

I also can't seem to get ds2 to eat anything that isn't junk. I like to keep poptarts around for breakfast because they are easy and not spillable. Ds2 will eat a whole one if you let him, but try to give him something healthy and he wants nothing to do with it. I have no idea how to get him to eat more.

Sorry to hijack your thread. I don't have any advice, just

[xekomaya]

Now I'm coming at this from a totally different place, but to me, it sounds like food intolerance.

My ds has those same symptoms if hes reacting to something, especially the obsessive nursing. Thats the #1. Clingy & crying is #2 & #3.

Maybe its worth taking a peek at the allergy forum, getting some ideas and cutting out a few foods to see if it makes a difference?

[Eligracey]

Namaste, if you're hungry all the time and he's nursing that often, it sounds like he needs more calories. I, too, was STARVING all the time from about months 8 until 10, when he started eating a ton more solids and now I'm much better. I can actually go more than 2 hours without eating something! I'd suspect that the not sleeping has something to do with hunger, too (although perhaps it's just that he's gotten into the habit of all-night nursing, but was probably because of hunger to start with).

Even if you choose not to wean yet (and I think it's totally fine to wean if you decide to), you definitely need to set some nursing limits. Have you tried having someone else feed him meals? Step out of the house for 20 minutes during mealtimes so he thinks you're not around? My DS eats more when he's eating with other people, and also eats more when he takes my food directly off my plate. When he asks to nurse, try saying "OK, but first let's have a snack" or "OK, but first let's play this fun game" (and put a snack plate out next to where you're playing). Is dad around to help get him to eat? Also, have you played around with feeding him all kinds of different weird things to see what he likes best? My DS loves some things I'm shocked at, like olives and grilled onions. Have you tried using lots of herbs or spices? Making the food fun, like PB&J or grilled cheese sandwiches cut into shapes using cookie cutters?

[Tapioca]

I agree with the second poster. Your body is giving you clear signals that it's had enough. I don't necessarily think you need to wean, but you can start enforcing limits on the nursing, he's old enough. With limits he may well start eating more solid food.

I nursed DD until 3.5 but there were clear limits on nursing by the end. It happened at certain times of the day and she had to treat my boobs respectfully, no playing with them etc. Like the second poster said, it never made any sense to me that you'd ignore signals from your body/mind just because of ideology, which is why I'm not a believer in CLW.

[NamastePlatypus]

Originally Posted by pbjmama

First let me say that if weaning is a solution for you, that is fine and good. But your post made me think of a few other possibilities.

I still haven't started AF ( don't get me wrong, I am LOVING that) but my hormones seem so out of whack, I am very short tempered, I can't GET enough calories, I don't get sleep ( we cosleep but he nurses every hour both sides at least).

Have you had your thyroid checked? Low iron perhaps?

My other thought is that he is just a different kid/going through a developmental change. I often compare my 1st to my 2nd but lucky for me my 2nd is about 99% easier. Sometimes the whining crying, etc is just a personality difference, nothing to do with nursing or parenting.

Originally Posted by hempmama

This is pretty off the wall, but that behavior honestly sounds...hungry...to me. All of it. Is there any reason at all your supply might have dipped lately? Or maybe he needs more than the boobs can produce now that he is older. How long has it been going on? Could it be a growth spurt? The nursing relationship does sound like it's having problems, and I weaned both my first and third children early and feel good about it(my third specifically because I resented nursing- I hate nursing, just hate it, and I'd given as much as I could without tarnishing our relationship. I am so, so glad I quit when I did. If anything I think it's easy to go too long in these situations.), but I think the behavior might have some other root causes. What is the issue with food? He refuses it if you are there? Is he involved in food preparation? Is it a power struggle or lack of interest?

Or does this sound way off base to you?

I do think he is hungry, but he won't eat solids but everyonce in a while. He is SUPER picky about them when he does eat.

Originally Posted by xekomaya

Now I'm coming at this from a totally different place, but to me, it sounds like food intolerance.

My ds has those same symptoms if hes reacting to something, especially the obsessive nursing. Thats the #1. Clingy & crying is #2 & #3.

Maybe its worth taking a peek at the allergy forum, getting some ideas and cutting out a few foods to see if it makes a difference?

Funny you say that, we hare gluten and casien free because of easton

It is funny so many of our DDCers are here! I am checking back for more info so thank you so much mamas! I LOVE nursing and that is why this is so hard for me.

[rivkah]

Sounds like you have got some good responses.

I will just add that when DS (#2) was about 14 months old, I had HAD it with night nursing. he loved to nurse at night, and never went to sleep any other way. I never thought I'd force a child to wean at all, but I had a pre-schooler and was in grad school, my size 4 jeans were starting to get loose, and it was just more than I could handle. He went on to nurse until he was 3, when I weaned him because it was just getting similarly draining. I am happy to report that after two nights of fussing during the night weaning, he was fine. He is now a very happy, healthy, confident 10 year old.

I think that there is always a balance of mother's needs and baby's needs. Obviously, for many months, baby' s needs just trump most of mom's. However, at some point baby really does need to nurse less and mom really does need a break physically.

Good luck whatever you decide.

[pbjmama]

Could he need oral motor/feeding therapy?