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Vax;s

post #1 of 11
Thread Starter 
I had my first in Germany almost five years ago. We moved back to the states within two monthes. ( Got to love the military!) At the time I blindly vaxed, now, that is never ever ever ever going to happen again. There is a good chance that we might get to move back within the year and of course base will tell you you HAVE to be vaxed, per the German Gov;t. I honestly don't believe base ever when it come to most anything! IS this true? Also we HS here but if we go back I want E to be in the Baumshule? How are German schools with vax;s. He is on the autism spectrum and there is no way knowing what I know now and seeing what they did to him be able to give him any again. Danke fur ihren hilfe!!!
post #2 of 11
Thread Starter 
Please?!
post #3 of 11
Vax are NOT required for kindergarten or school attendance in Germany. They may ask about your child's vax status, and ped's may recommend certain vaccinations, but there is no obligation to get them.

Of course, the military can require vax if your child will attend the school or other activities on base.

edited to add that we lived in Germany for almost 6 years, and 2 of my kids were enrolled in kindergarten, although they only went a few times.
post #4 of 11
Hi! I posted a similar question in the "I don't vax" forum here on Mothering. We want to go to Germany and have an almost 2 year old who hasn't been vaxed at all. We put Germany as our first post choice, so I'm hoping we won't have to fight much at all.

I got a reply from EmmelineII that was full of great information. I'm going to copy and paste it for you. Here is the link to the actual thread: http://www.mothering.com/discussions....php?t=1152877


The first half is my military daycare info; the second half is what I have collected regarding PCSing un/undervaxed dependents.

I have only seen this be an issue with the Navy, so far. Someone here fought it and the Navy sent her a letter that basically said that they just wanted to make sure that sending her/children would not cause an international incident.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

If all else fails contact your congressmen; I'd carry their contact numbers in your purse along with the following regs (look them up and print out the actual pages).
Everyone you have to talk to will tell you a different requirement. Always demand (nicely) that they put their request in writing, reference the regulation, and sign their name to it.

Remember that you are a civilian, your children are civilians, and that they are not disease infested swamp things <img name="graphics1" width="16" align="bottom" border="0" height="16">). Also, as a civilian you can be Wiccan or Catholic and still be "opposed to the practice of immunization". The Chaplain can govern the exemptions of service members but not dependents. If you have a sympathetic person in your dh's chain of command you may want to take them to any meetings; in any case you will want a witness and to write down what they have told you immediately afterwards.


[quote]


MOTHERING THREAD
http://www.mothering.com/discussions/member.php?u=51507


DODEA

Quote:
http://www.dodea.edu/foia/iod/pdf/2942.pdf

DoDEA Manual 2942.0 March 2004/DoDEA Health Service Guide, DS Manual 2942.0



On page 33, Section F2 Immunizations:

"Religious — A child’s parent or guardian may claim exemption for religious
reasons. If the parent maintains the need to continue the religious exemption
during a documented outbreak of a contagious disease, the student will be
excluded from school for his or her protection and the safety of the other
students until the contagious period is over. Religious exemptions require a
written statement from the parent stating that he or she objects to the
vaccination based upon personal beliefs. "

and...

Quote:
Paragraph 3-2.b.(4) at the bottom of page 10 of

Army Regulation 40–562
BUMEDINST 6230.15A
AFJI 48–110
CG COMDTINST M6230.4F:
http://www.vaccines.mil/documents/969r40_562.pdf
specifically states, "Department of Defense schoolteachers, daycare center workers, and children attending DOD–sponsored schools
and daycare centers or similar facilities on military installations. As a condition of employment or attendance at these
facilities, schoolteachers, childcare center workers, volunteers, and children attending DOD–sponsored primary and
secondary schools, childcare centers, or similar facilities are administered appropriate vaccines against communicable
diseases unless already immune (based on documented receipt of vaccine series or physician–diagnosed illness) or
medically/administratively exempt. "

ARMY
Army Regulation 40–562
BUMEDINST 6230.15A
AFJI 48–110
CG COMDTINST M6230.4F

http://www.vaccines.mil/documents/969r40_562.pdf
pg. 10, section 3.2, para 4 says:


Quote:
In addition, all other age appropriate ACIP–recommended vaccines for children are required unless there is documentation of previous immunization, religious exemption, or medical contraindication.

Army Regulation 608-10

http://www.army.mil/usapa/epubs/pdf/r608_10.pdf
4-6
(2) A waiver of the immunization requirement must be approved in writing by the Chief, Preventive Medicine or
health consultant. Parents must be counseled that children with waivers will be excluded from the program in the event
of vaccine preventable communicable disease outbreak.


C–37. Compliance item 15.

c. Equivalency. A waiver of immunizations signed by Chief, Preventive Medicine may be considered for religious
convictions. Parents must be counseled that the child may be excluded during an outbreak of vaccine preventable
communicable disease.



Quote:


http://www.vaccines.mil/documents/969r40_562.pdf
Army Regulation 40–562
BUMEDINST 6230.15A (NAVY)
AFJI 48–110 (Air Force Joint Instruction 48-110)
CG COMDTINST M6230.4F (COAST GUARD)


2–6. Exemptions
There are 2 types of exemptions from immunization: medical and administrative. Granting medical exemptions is a
medical function that can only be validated by a health care professional. Granting administrative exemptions is a
non–medical function, usually controlled by the individual’s unit commander....

(3) Religious.
(a) For Service personnel, immunization exemptions for religious reasons may be granted according to Service–
specific policies to accommodate doctrinal religious beliefs. This is a command decision made with medical and
chaplain advice.
1. Requests for religious exemption must include name, rank, social security number (SSN), occupational specialty
code or branch, and a description of the religious tenet or belief contrary to immunization. Army: (see AR 600–20,
para 5–6). Air Force: Permanent exemptions for religious reasons will not be granted. The major command (MAJCOM)
commander is the designated approval and revocation authority for temporary immunization exemptions. Coast
Guard: CG–122 is the designated approval and revocation authority for temporary immunization exemptions.
2. A military physician must counsel the applicant. The physician should ensure that the Service personnel is
making an informed decision and should address, at a minimum, specific information about the diseases concerned;
specific vaccine information including product constituents, benefits, and risks; and potential risks of infection incurred
by unimmunized individuals.
3. The commander must counsel the individual and recommend approval or denial of the exemption request, by
endorsement. The commander must counsel that noncompliance with immunization requirements may adversely impact
deployability, assignment, or international travel, and that the exemption may be revoked under imminent risk
conditions. The commander, in making his or her recommendation, should consider the potential impact on the
individual, the unit, and the mission.
4. Forward exemption requests through command channels to the respective Service approval authority for decision.
Individuals with active requests for religious exemption are temporarily deferred from immunizations pending outcome
of their request. For USCG, forward through appropriate chain to G–WPM, via CG–1121.
(b) Civilian employees submit religious–exemption requests to their supervisors. Such requests will be processed in
accordance with 29 CFR 1605 and component and local policies.
c. Bargaining units. Civilian personnel affected by this document who are members of bargaining units will be
considered for exemption consistent with applicable personnel management policies.
d. Other categories. Administrative or medical personnel will appropriately annotate electronic ITS with exemption
codes denoting separation, permanent change of station, emergency leave, missing or prisoner of war, deceased, and
other appropriate categories.

________________________________________________


United States> Code of Federal Regulations> Title 29 - Labor> CHAPTER XIV--EQUAL EMPLOYMENT OPPORTUNITY COMMISSION

29 C.F.R. PART 1605—GUIDELINES ON DISCRIMINATION BECAUSE OF RELIGION

§ 1605.1 “Religious” nature of a practice or belief.
In most cases whether or not a practice or belief is religious is not at issue. However, in those cases in which the issue does exist, the Commission will define religious practices to include moral or ethical beliefs as to what is right and wrong which are sincerely held with the strength of traditional religious views. This standard was developed in United States v. Seeger, 380 U.S. 163 (1965) and Welsh v. United States, 398 U.S. 333 (1970). The Commission has consistently applied this standard in its decisions.1 The fact that no religious group espouses such beliefs or the fact that the religious group to which the individual professes to belong may not accept such belief will not determine whether the belief is a religious belief of the employee or prospective employee. The phrase “religious practice” as used in these Guidelines includes both religious observances and practices, as stated in section 701(j), 42 U.S.C. 2000e(j).






Quote:

To whom it may concern;



(We / I) {First and Last name(s)}, as the {(parent (s) / guardian(s)} of ______________________(name of newborn child) are exercising (our/my) rights under the US Constitution, Army Regulation 40-562, BUMEDINST 6230.15A, AF JI 48-110, CG COMDTINST M6230.4F , section 3.2, para4, and Army Regulation 608-10, section 4-6, para 2, to receive Religious Exemption from Vaccination, due to our genuine and sincere religious beliefs which are contrary to the practices herein required.


The U.S. Supreme Court held in Frazee V. Illinois Dept. of Security, 489 U.S. 829, that a religious belief is subject to protection even though no religious group espouses such beliefs or the fact that the religious group to which the individual professes to belong may not advocate or require such belief. This ruling is also reflected in Title VII of the Civil Rights Act of 1964 as amended Nov. 1, 1980; Part 1605.1-Guidelines on Discrimination Because of Religion.


Sincerely,

Your signature.
Date

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
VACCINATION STATUS: Command Sponsorship and Dependent Travel


Quote:
Originally Posted by mommyrn5
Because of the AFIs you posted, I was able to locate a few more AFIs. Everything I read said that dependents have to get whatever vaxes are required for entry into that particular country (Japanese Encephalitis for Japan, for example), but I couldn't find anything anywhere that stated a dependent's vaxes must be up to date in order to get command sponsorship or for the military to purchase the dependent's plane tickets. I also found, through my research, that this seems to be a common "threat" people are hearing lately. I am beginning to think that this is one of those things like people telling you your kids can't go to school without being vaxed. It isn't true, but people hear it, they believe it, they repeat it. But at the heart of it is a veiled attempt to scare people into vaxing their kids. I also finally spoke with someone at Outbound Assignments at the base. She said that if you get medical clearance, they cut the orders and buy the tickets. Since I went through the medical clearance process last year, I know that dependent's vax records aren't looked at in that process.

Thanks, again, for all the pubs you listed. They were a huge help!

Kathy

AFI 36-2110 Assignments
AFI 36-3020 Family Member Travel
AFI 36-2102 Base-level Relocation Procedures
AFCSM 36-699 Volume I

[DOC]

"Remember that you can file ICE reports online for ANY bad and good experiences you have at any military facility (military doctor, the commissary, exchange, etc.). They will always follow up on your report and try to remedy the situation. The ICE system is done through DOD and stands for Interactive Customer Evaluation."
http://ice.disa.mil/
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
COMMAND SPONSORSHIP

http://www.48fss.com/DNN/LinkClick.a...O99U%3D&tabid= 138&mid=711 -

FAMILY MEMBER SUITABILITY SCREENING
OPNAV INSTRUCTION 1300.14D. SUITABILITY SCREENING FOR OVERSEAS AND REMOTE DUTY
ASSIGNMENT
http://usmilitary.about.com/gi/dynam...s/1300.14D.pdf

DOD Form NAVMED 13001/2
http://www.med.navy.mil/sites/navmed...(Encl%204).pdf
http://www.militaryhomefront.dod.mil...NT/1601311.pdf

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

NAVY/JAPAN INFORMATION

I did a search on the mothering.com vax board for "navy"; just look for my responses... I think the first one has my general miltary childcare vaccination information; the second has Navy/Japan information.

Navy PCS 1

Navy PCS 2

Navy Search
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Quick update:
We just went for our overseas screening (VA to Japan). We sel/delay vax. We are Navy. We were told we HAD to get kids up to date on all vax per CDC/WHO recs or they would not sign the Form 1300-2 form for the immunizations. it was an Army reg (not sure which one - dh may remember) which clearly stated they must be current per the CDC recommendations.

Quote:

All that I have read up to this point said that the vaccinations are recommendations (except those required by the host country, which there are none) and are not requirements per reg (though you can be denied assignment for any reason).

NAVMED 13001/2; it says that immunization requirements are "assignment specific" and "meet destination country requirements" (there are none required by Japan).

I've known at least 4 people on another are in Japan or going; and they are all Navy and not vaxing! Not all Navy dependents to Japan are being treated the same; at least this treatment is very recent (since about Jan 09). Oddly enough, though they cited an Army reg. I don't know any overseas Army dependents with this problem; it's just the Navy.

FAMILY MEMBER SUITABILITY SCREENING
OPNAV INSTRUCTION 1300.14D. SUITABILITY SCREENING FOR OVERSEAS AND REMOTE DUTY
ASSIGNMENT
http://usmilitary.about.com/gi/dynam...s/1300.14D.pdf


DOD Form NAVMED 13001/2
http://www.med.navy.mil/sites/navmed...(Encl%204).pdf

Be aware that the Army regulation sprung on Paniscus concerned DOD schools, CDC daycares, and other childminding institutions that had nothing to do with dependents getting a medical clearance for an overseas accompanied tour/ to deny a medical clearance for an overseas tour: (Army Regulation 40–562
BUMEDINST 6230.15A
AFJI 48–110
CG COMDTINST M6230.4F
http://www.vaccines.mil/documents/969r40_562.pdf).
It's like saying "you cannot include pianos in your household goods and this regulation, regarding pcsing with pets, backs up my statement."


___________________________________________


Advice from an Officer:



Quote:
You know, in the two years since my son was born, I've only had one pediatritian (between my two children) question my decision not to vaccinate. Every other one just double checked with me (to confirm what I told the tech) and that was that. The one guy who questioned me was a real douchebag.



I was taking my daughter in who has numerous medical problems (was a preemie & low birth weight baby who probably has cerebral palsy or something similiar). She was gaining weight very slowly at 6 months, and was exclusively breastfed. I couldn't bottle feed or give her solid food because of her problems. He went on for 15 minutes about her weight gain, trying to make me feel bad for never pumping (supposedly that would tell me if I had a low supply, and when I told him pumping bears no reflection on your supply he looked at me like I was an idiot), then tried to make me feel bad for never giving her a bottle (when attempted it activates her severe gag reflex and she pukes everywhere, so why bother when my boobs work just fine) and then acted like I was an idiot when I told him she had sensory issues with her mouth and I couldn't feed her solids quite yet. I then asked him for a referral to a nutritionist, and he told me there wouldn't be a point because she was only breastfed. He said I shouldn't wait past 6 months to introduce solids because it could cause food allergies -WTF!


He then started in on vaccinations. I told him that we were very educated and researched a lot on the matter, and if we DID vaccinate, it wouldn't be until they were older. He then said that vaccines weren't as effective if you waited until they were older!!! I just stared at him and told him our minds were made up and I wasn't going to discuss my reasons with him. He was irritating me for treating me like an idiot and making things up to try to persuade me to go his way. And if he wasn't making them up, then I don't know what research he's reading, because I'd never heard the things he was saying. I felt like I had to explain that I was an intelligent woman, that just because I'm a SAHM mom, doesn't mean I'm not smart and educated. I graduated from the Air Force Academy, for crying out loud.



I just hate being condesended to. But I know my rights, and for whatever reason, in the experiences I've seen with me and my sister, they tend to not try to push around officers/officers wives as much as enlisted. My sister said they tried fear tactics all the time with her when her DH was enlisted, but never when he was an officer. And having been enlisted and an officer, I've seen that as well.


Just don't accept that answer. I really don't believe that they can refuse to PCS you overseas because you or your children aren't vaccinated.



If this happened to me, this is the order in which I would take action:




Contact my DH's chain of command to see if they can work the situation
Then make an IG complaint if that didn't work
Write to my congressman if that failed
Lastly contact the media

http://www.cafemom.com/group/4388/fo...ext=11#replies

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
(CDC on base giving me a difficult time! (UPDATE)


Quote:

Just say that you believe God (I personally prefer the Universe, but it's best just to conform to the typical Judeo-Christian thing for the sake of getting it done) created us perfect and you believe that it is wrong and arrogant to believe we can improve upon God's perfect creation. Therefore, it would be a violation of your religious principle's to vaccinate your perfectly healthy children.
I would avoid being too specific; one reason being you run the risk of giving philosophical reasons that SEEM religious. Anything you find online, reword.
Really, I would avoid being specific at all, but if it happens..."are you claiming to be a religous authority with dominion over dependent's religious beliefs? The regulation does not specify such authority and neither does federal law."

K.N.O.W. Vaccines - Religious Exemption



<img alt="">

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Last edited by Emmeline II; 10-23-2009 at 01:19 PM..
post #5 of 11
Thread Starter 
Thank you!! I was pretty sure I was right on this and it looks like I was! THANK YOU for the regs! We would NEVER use onbase schooling, I speak German and my children are going to get that education and experience of Germany. I am so excited for them!
post #6 of 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by NamastePlatypus View Post
I speak German and my children are going to get that education and experience of Germany. I am so excited for them!
What type of school were you planning on using? My son is pretty young, so I've got some time to work all this out, but I've been wondering if we'd have to home school there. I would love to send him to a Waldkindergarten or a Waldorf school, but am hesitant to send him to a school where everyone speaks German but him. Are there schools where they speak English? Do you think that it wouldn't really be problem to send a kiddo to a school where they don't speak the language? (After all, there are language immersion schools here in the US, but I don't really know much about them.) I'd really be interested to hear another moms thoughts on this. I really don't want to use on post schools either.
post #7 of 11
Children pick up a language really easily if they are immersed in it. We did not send our kids to school in Germany, but my friends' kids who did go to kindergarten or school were fluent within 3 or 4 months. The first couple of months are hard because they can't really speak with other kids, but they can still play together and communicate in non-verbal ways.
post #8 of 11
Thread Starter 
I agree with PL, it is amazing how fast they learn.
post #9 of 11
Pretty much everything said, but I can assure you Germany has no mandatory vaccine laws at all.
Born there, grown up and never ever had to do a physical for school, the school never asked about shots and never wanted to see medical records or shot records.
As for English, there are many preschools that offer that for German kiddos to pick up English early. There are intensive training classes too and such. A young child will pick up language easily though
post #10 of 11
Don't worry about mandatory vaccination laws.
There are, however, mandatory, health examinations (birth until 8 years or higher, please correct me when you know the exact age), and of course the mandatory school health check where you might be grilled on your stance to no vaccines.

Generally, you can choose your pediatrician, and there are plenty on the anti-vax site, so no need to worry. You could ask a local midwife for a referral or LLL consultants.
post #11 of 11
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by summermay View Post
Don't worry about mandatory vaccination laws.
There are, however, mandatory, health examinations (birth until 8 years or higher, please correct me when you know the exact age), and of course the mandatory school health check where you might be grilled on your stance to no vaccines.

Generally, you can choose your pediatrician, and there are plenty on the anti-vax site, so no need to worry. You could ask a local midwife for a referral or LLL consultants.
Thank you! funny I am going to start my apprenticeship if and when we get there and I am a LLL leader!
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