Need to vent!

[BRmama]

So, this weekend I spent it with my family who just found out by accident that we cosleep. My sister in particular had a problem with it. Because of that they all decided that they're experts and that I'm going to have problems later on . Apparently my baby needs to self soothe because theirs did and I'm harming him. I was so mad. I said yeah he needs to self soothe because whenever he's wet or wants a drink of water of whatever he can just go and do those things himself. The worst is that he's nine months and I'm still swaddling him. They were like, "so when are you going to wean him from being swaddled?" I said whenever he's ready. They said that if I keep at it this way my kid will be swaddled till college. My sister let her kids cio and as she says they turned out okay. They did in fact turn out okay, and I loooove her kids but give me a break. It's my baby so therefore I'll raise him the way that I want him to be raised. If you (general) believe in cry it out wonderful, I don't agree but I'm not going to criticize you. So then they all want to give me books on not cosleeping. I finally just told them, is it harming anyone? Is it harming you in particular? And if he stays swaddled until college fine, he'll always be my baby. (Obviously he wont be swaddled till then but I was so mad I didn't care).


Here's a little about my son. He sleeps beautifully, always has since he was born. I guess we were lucky with him. We started cosleeping when he was about a month old. I love rocking him to sleep, and swaddling him, and feeding him. During the day when I'm at whatever public place I'm at there's always one adult that comes up and say, "is your kid ever this quiet?" Even when he's in a bad mood or right before he goes to sleep he gets in a laughing mood, so I know for a fact that when my son cries there is something wrong with him. All this and he has been teething for the past three months nonstop. So I'm wondering here what am I doing wrong?! I don't try to convert anyone into how I parent, and we still have our issues and we deal with them. The only reason they found out was because I don't have a pack n' play for my son to sleep in when we're traveling.

So I guess I'm not looking for any answers but just needed to vent. I feel better by writing things down anyway. If you read this far, thank you.

[seashells]

Frustrating. It's not the same issue exactly (in fact this cousin coslept with her DD herself), but DH's cousin is obnoxious like your sister in thinking that her way is the only way and thinking that anybody else is interested in her opinion. For example, when she heard us telling MIL that homeschool was a possibility, she declared that homeschooled kids are totally messed up and we'd be screwing her up for life if we did that.

DH and I were both stunned by this. I kept trying to imagine saying such strong, uninvited, and combative things to her, and I couldn't even picture it. I don't agree with everything people do, but it's really unthinkable to me to just go up to them and tell them they are stupid and screwing their kids up.

We're seeing the cousin again for Christmas and if this comes up again I plan on looking her in the eye and saying something like "would you be interested in hearing a few of MY opinions about how you raise your daughter?" Of course I have no interest in sharing any opinions, none of my business. Or maybe I'll say "funny, I didn't recall asking for opinions" and if she keeps at it I might do that first line then. Just some ideas for you. It's very confrontational, but not nearly as much as your sister or DH's cousin!

[Porcelain Interior]

I think sometimes it's jealousy, or guilt that causes people to act like this. They want you to torture your baby by letting him scream alone in a crib because they did, and if they can get you to do it too, maybe it's not so bad?

I never got mad when people said my children would turn out spoiled, because frankly (cannot be sure it was co-sleeping as the reason) my kids were the only cousins in our whole family that didn't throw tantrums and fits and have potty mouths and do mean spirited things. My kids were calmer and a lot more fun to be around than my siblings/SIL's own kids who were crib trained from the get go.

I always just thought inside my own head "How sad, they have no idea what they're missing."

[kelly]

I totally agree with pp. We get nothing but positive comments from strangers who go out of their way to tell us how happy and well behaved our girls are. I know that it is in some great way influenced by our AP parenting, part of which includes co-sleeping. It makes me sad to think how many kids don't have the advantages that ours do because of that. On the other hand, I'm wimpy about confrontation, so I don't know how I'd address the issue with your sister. It's really none of her business.

[Amandala]

Well, tell them that I (yes, I mean me) was never swaddled after the newborn stage and slept in my own crib in my own room as a baby and I am now an insomniac who can only sleep curled up in a tight ball like a fetus. My husband makes jokes about it.

Not saying that anything caused it, but obviously it goes both ways and that approach clearly doesn't necessarily keep people from having sleep problems.

Also, tell them to bite your butt.

-Amanda

[BRmama]

Thanks for the posts! I'm glad to read about how your kids are also well behaved and calm and get compliments from strangers. Partly because of the ap parenting style and co sleep. We practice ap parenting. It just came naturally to us.

I thought at first it was some jealousy because their kids went through it and all so mine need to too. But I think in my family it's just a bunch of hard headed stubborn people. We stayed at my parents timeshare and had to go to one of those boring meetings where people pressured you into buying their timeshare. Well it was per family and since we all have kids we all brought our kids (no babysitters) and guess which one was getting comments like your kid is so well behaved. We even had a stranger bring us hot water in a cup so we could dip ds's toy that fell on the floor. I know ap and co sleeping, just doing things the natural way has something to do with it. So for them to sit there after this incident and tell me I'm harming my son?! , next time I'll say like a couple pp's suggested: "Bite my butt," and "funny, I didn't know I asked for your opinion."

[BRmama]

Originally Posted by Amandala

Well, tell them that I (yes, I mean me) was never swaddled after the newborn stage and slept in my own crib in my own room as a baby and I am now an insomniac who can only sleep curled up in a tight ball like a fetus. My husband makes jokes about it.

Not saying that anything caused it, but obviously it goes both ways and that approach clearly doesn't necessarily keep people from having sleep problems.

Also, tell them to bite your butt.

-Amanda

, wow yeah it can go both ways. My bil from my dh's side was the same way. He wasn't swaddled after the newborn stage and was left to cry for at least two hours. My mil even wore earplugs to not hear him. Now I can't even start to tell you the problems he has. Not saying that cio is the whole culprit but imo a huge part.

[ssh]

The reason your sister's kids seem to be ok is because the permanent damage that CIO causes shows up as stress related diseases in adulthood. Adults who have CIO are more vulnerable to things like hypertension, insomnia, depression, stress related digestive disorders, and can develop post traumatic stress disorder easier than adults without a damaged neurological system. Here's one article http://www.news.harvard.edu/gazette/...enNeedTou.html . The main points being:

"The early stress resulting from separation causes changes in infant brains that makes future adults more susceptible to stress in their lives, say Commons and Miller. "Parents should recognize that having their babies cry unnecessarily harms the baby permanently," Commons said. "It changes the nervous system so they're overly sensitive to future trauma."

The book Science of Parenting by Margot Sunderland has more details on the actual stress hormones involved and how the damage occurs. It also has more detail on adult related diseases. This article also goes into more detail http://www.naturalchild.org/guest/li...n_palmer2.html .

You may not want to actually say "Just because you've chosen to permanently damage your children neurologically doesn't mean I want to." . But giving your sister all the research should shut her up. Your sisters kids will just continue to make profits for our pharmaceutical companies when they grow up, but maybe your DS and my DD won't.

[moonmom08]

Originally Posted by ssh

The reason your sister's kids seem to be ok is because the permanent damage that CIO causes shows up as stress related diseases in adulthood. Adults who have CIO are more vulnerable to things like hypertension, insomnia, depression, stress related digestive disorders, and can develop post traumatic stress disorder easier than adults without a damaged neurological system. Here's one article http://www.news.harvard.edu/gazette/...enNeedTou.html . The main points being:

"The early stress resulting from separation causes changes in infant brains that makes future adults more susceptible to stress in their lives, say Commons and Miller. "Parents should recognize that having their babies cry unnecessarily harms the baby permanently," Commons said. "It changes the nervous system so they're overly sensitive to future trauma."

Sorry to hijack, but has anyone actually come across the actual peer-reviewed publication resulting from this? I've always found this reference lacking as it doesn't refer to any actual data, and comes across as the opinion of the authors. I'd absolutely love it if this were evidence I could get behind and show my CIO friends.

[Porcelain Interior]

Originally Posted by moonmom08

Sorry to hijack, but has anyone actually come across the actual peer-reviewed publication resulting from this? I've always found this reference lacking as it doesn't refer to any actual data, and comes across as the opinion of the authors. I'd absolutely love it if this were evidence I could get behind and show my CIO friends.

I'd like to see evidence as well. I was left to CIO and was rarely held as an infant/small child. I have abandonment issues, have been deathly afraid of the dark since I was around age 1-2 (I have family stories of me waking up and sitting bolt upright from a dead sleep screaming bloody murder when anyone turned the hall light off), severe anxiety and issues with eye contact and trusting people.

I don't think it's merely CIO that probably caused it, but a combo of being a highly sensitive person, on top of having extremely rigid abusive parents (they did more than CIO to get that label.) and it really damaged my emerging personhood.

When I had kids I never put them down. Probably went a little over board with it, but I was so paranoid that they wouldn't feel loved I couldn't stop myself.

[fruitfulmomma]

We don't swaddle, but we never cio and we always bedshare until the babies are at least two years old. My oldest will be 10 next June, he bedshared and nursed until he was almost 4, and I think he is doing very well and he sleeps in his own bed and everything. He even goes to work with his grandmother at her flea market on the weekends and gets compliments about how helpful he is, etc...

[BRmama]

You may not want to actually say "Just because you've chosen to permanently damage your children neurologically doesn't mean I want to." . But giving your sister all the research should shut her up. Your sisters kids will just continue to make profits for our pharmaceutical companies when they grow up, but maybe your DS and my DD won't.

If I knew about that I probably would have said it since I was close to tears because everyone thinks I'm spoiling my son, and finally dh had to tell everyone to cool it. But it's true her kids will most likely make profits for our pharmaceutical companies when they grow up. Thanks for the link.

Thank you everyone for posting, especially because it got me thinking it can go both ways. A combination of cio with other factors can influence a baby to have problems when they grow up. Just like the other way (not cio) can influence a baby to grow up happy and with less issues. Since I'm a research geek, I'll see if I can find any peer reviewed studies to post. Thanks again

[crazyrunningmama]

I think that if you, with an infant! are getting enough sleep and you and your child are both happy with your arrangement, that means you have won the baby lottery and it is exactly NONE of anyone else's beeswax. Good job mama and continue to enjoy this time with your wee one.

[MommytoB]

This is such irony when parents push kids away as a young un and doing stuff independently but as soon as hits teen/adult years it's like we end up pushing them away when they actually want to get involved and when we push them away it makes them madder because they assume they trying to help us when we could have used the help as a baby/young child but not as a teen or adult .

[ssh]

Originally Posted by moonmom08

Sorry to hijack, but has anyone actually come across the actual peer-reviewed publication resulting from this? I've always found this reference lacking as it doesn't refer to any actual data, and comes across as the opinion of the authors. I'd absolutely love it if this were evidence I could get behind and show my CIO friends.

There's over 30 years of hard research listed in the back of Science of Parenting. There's more actual research available on request. If you google "chronic elevated cortisol" you will find a lot of peer reviewed articles. Cortisol is the main stress hormone that causes damage during CIO. It's also one of the causes of heart disease. Here's one article http://findarticles.com/p/articles/m.../ai_n31676644/ .

[BlueWolf]

Originally Posted by ssh

There's over 30 years of hard research listed in the back of Science of Parenting. There's more actual research available on request. If you google "chronic elevated cortisol" you will find a lot of peer reviewed articles. Cortisol is the main stress hormone that causes damage during CIO. It's also one of the causes of heart disease. Here's one article http://findarticles.com/p/articles/m.../ai_n31676644/ .

I shared all those articles with my DH. He responded by saying "that's probably why I'm so hypersensitive to future trauma". I wasn't quite sure what he meant, so he clarified by saying, "my mom let me cry it out and I'm super sensitive to future trauma... like it says in that article. I think a lot about death.. and am more mentally reserved from some things because of it. Like with Nana, I've already (inadvertently) started mentally letting go of her." (His grandmother his dying )

[ssh]

Originally Posted by BlueWolf

I shared all those articles with my DH. He responded by saying "that's probably why I'm so hypersensitive to future trauma". I wasn't quite sure what he meant, so he clarified by saying, "my mom let me cry it out and I'm super sensitive to future trauma... like it says in that article. I think a lot about death.. and am more mentally reserved from some things because of it. Like with Nana, I've already (inadvertently) started mentally letting go of her." (His grandmother his dying )

That's sad. I just have occasional insomnia and anxiety issues if I don't have enough social interaction (I'm an extrovert). When I was a child and teenager I had stomach pain and threw up anytime I was anxious or upset. I don't know if I was let to CIO but I do know I slept in a crib and only breastfeed until 6 months. When I was old enough to get out of bed on my own I do remember my mom letting me go back to sleep with her in the living room. I'm not too disappointed in my mom because I was born in '59 and even breastfeeding me at all was against the norm, but I'd love to not have any sleep or anxiety issues.
My 4 year sleeps better than me, and has since she was 3.5. She sleeps a solid 10 hours or so and only occasionally talks in her sleep. I remember nightmares from when I was that age. Well at least our kids will have less issues because we've nurtured them appropriately.

[Headmeister]

if this comes up again I plan on looking her in the eye and saying something like "would you be interested in hearing a few of MY opinions about how you raise your daughter?" Of course I have no interest in sharing any opinions, none of my business. Or maybe I'll say "funny, I didn't recall asking for opinions" and if she keeps at it I might do that first line then. Just some ideas for you.

This is genius - I can't believe I never thought of that comeback before. I totally plan on using this!!! Thanks!

[mambera]

I don't think any one specific approach can have such a huge effect on adult outcome.

I slept in a crib and BF till 6 months also and I haven't got any sleep problems whatsoever (except those engendered by the 6-month-old infant in my bed, lol).

I think if the overall parental environment is loving and responsive, individual elements like CIO are probably not going to have severe long-term effects.

If the overall parental environment is withholding and nonresponsive and CIO is part of that picture, then obviously there are going to be problems in the long term.

[lonegirl]

Originally Posted by ssh

The reason your sister's kids seem to be ok is because the permanent damage that CIO causes shows up as stress related diseases in adulthood. Adults who have CIO are more vulnerable to things like hypertension, insomnia, depression, stress related digestive disorders, and can develop post traumatic stress disorder easier than adults without a damaged neurological system. .

Just for the record...I was raised in a CIO, sleep in your own crib sort of environment and was formula fed (because that is what my mom was told was best) and I have to say I turned out fine (37y/o btw)....I am probably one of the most laid back sort you can come across.

That of course does not mean I raised my son that way...we still co-sleep and I nursed until he was 2.5y.

OP-
Be proud of how you are raising your LO! You are doing what is right for you adn your family.