**December** Dating Thread: Updates and (Re)Introductions, please! - Page 6

[sugarmoon]

Thanks Holland.

It was definitely too much too soon, I know that. I should have declined the invitation to go over there, or at least to stay over, since I knew what that would likely look like, and I knew that he didn't know, you know? :grin But it was too hard not to give into the temptation to be able to see him, and spend a long time with him, and sleep in his arms...

And to his credit, he was awesome with the kids the whole time. I think with the exception of the not sleeping part, he'd be more like at a 5 on my 1-10 scale of freaked-outness.

And I guess what I mean when I say it is "real" is that it really is my life. And it won't do much good for me to shield someone from that for several months, only to have them freak out AFTER we're thinking we're pretty serious. But smaller doses of exposure to the kid-scene are in order, for sure.

We'll see, I'm trying to be Zen about it. I won't be able to see him until Sunday at this point, and Sunday is my kid-free day.

Zeta and sbphot0gr, yes I think some people are online just to be online. They may not be really ready to date, or maybe they are married and toying with the idea of cheating...you never know. Gotta have a thick skin, for online. It can be so frustrating, and disappointing, for sure.

Gonna go try to distract myself from my angst now...

[mumblemama]

sugarmoon-- I think it's pretty awesome he was honest about his freakedout-ness, though. I also wouldn't take it too personally. How much of the kids has he seen?

That's a big thing I'm not sure what I'll do about it. My last relationship which was 10months... he got to know the kids well, and they him, and it ended up being no big deal. I thought it would last. But it didn't, and now I feel bad that my kids sometimes ask after him.

Now that I split time w/ their dad more evenly, I feel like I am living two separate lives. And I can imagine keeping people I am dating from meeting them indefinitely (but *for sure* at least half a year or so). Not sure how that would work besides in theory, though.

[Holland73]

Originally Posted by mumblemama

That's a big thing I'm not sure what I'll do about it. My last relationship which was 10months... he got to know the kids well, and they him, and it ended up being no big deal. I thought it would last. But it didn't, and now I feel bad that my kids sometimes ask after him.

My 18+ month relationship (he lived with ds and I for the last 4 months of it) ended in October. My ds still asks to see him (and my previous x-bf, who I was with for a little over a year), but I don't feel bad... meaning there isn't anything I did wrong and there is nothing I could (or would) have changed about any of my choices or decisions.

When ds tells me that he misses so-and-so, I always commiserate with him, "Yeah, I miss so-and-so too. We had a lot of great times together, didn't we?" And, we reflect on the fun times we had with that person.

Ultimately, there are no guarantees in any relationship (romantic, friendly or familial). People will always be coming and going in our lives. I believe it is my job to help ds learn positive, healthy methods to deal with those losses.

Take in mind, I am not introducing my ds to every man I date. Oh heck, I don't even date that much. But, ds has only met 2 of the men I have dated in my 6+ years of dating, both of which were already monogamous and on the pathway to becoming serious relationships. I cannot imagine getting serious with someone without them first meeting and interacting with ds. That is too big of a component in my life to be left in the dark... ykwim?

[mumblemama]

Holland.. I totally know what you mean. And when I think about it, they get that with everyone. Teachers they no longer see, friends I'm no longer friends with, etc. It's just somewhere I want to tread lightly, and really have no need to worry about right now, anyway.

[Holland73]

Originally Posted by mumblemama

It's just somewhere I want to tread lightly

As I believe we all should.

I just have a hard time when people start beating themselves up or feeling bad/guilty because a relationship didn't turn out the way they hoped, imagined and/or dreamed it would.

[Holland73]

Last night's date went great!

He was very cute, incredibly fascinating and very attentive.

He is Pakastani, but has lived in the US since he was 17 (he is 41), an atheist (which fascinates me and does not conflict with any of my belief systems), works in software development and just recently bought a 3 bedroom place in San Francisco! Speaks/reads/writes 3 different languages and is an amazing connoiseur of music, particularly Western and Eastern Classical.

The food was also wonderful, the conversation was flowing and it was just a great time!

It was a little short (about 2 hours), as I had to drive my babysitters home last night, which meant that ds was up much later than normal for a school night. But, I have found that the shorter dates, esp. for a first date, do tend to leave an air of mystery and sparks their interest even more.

After he got home, he texted me:

"It was really nice to see you! Your eyes, even the wandering one, are amazing! It was also great to chat and break bread with you. Hope to see you for extended time soon!"

[Holland73]

Mamajen: How was your date????

Sugarmoon: How did the Zen'n work for you yesterday? How are you feeling today? Did you both talk yesterday?

[*MamaJen*]

My date was pleasant, not crackling, but pleasant. He was nice looking, though I didn't feel overwhelmingly attracted to him. We obviously share the same basic philosophical framework and we have a good bit in common. The conversation took a little while to pick up, but it wound up being pretty interesting (and I'm a big extrovert, I can have a good conversation with just about anyone). I dunno. I wouldn't say there wound up being a huge amount of chemistry, but he was pleasant. I think I'd like to see him one more time, now that the first date is out of the way.
The entire idea of blind dating is pretty weird. I definitely prefer to go on dates with people I'm already attracted to. Up until a couple of years ago I was working downtown, meeting new people constantly, and of course I didn't have a kid so I could be out a lot more. Now I'm still out and about a lot, but I meet less new people. I turned 30 this year and suddenly everyone I know seems to be married.

[Seie]

Holland and Mamajen: Nice to read about your dates. Gives me a little hope for when I will be going outthere again.

Just in this moment I am feeling a bit better than I have for a while since the breakup. Ok - i am a bit - ahem - ashamed to admit this, but please understand that I am pretty desperate. But - dont tell anyone - I bought one of those making up with your ex guides and it cost me an awful lot of money that i don't have ops (called the Magic of Making Up) It really was expensive, - for only around 60 pages. But I was kind of expecting it to be a scam so it was a positive experience reading through it. There was a lot of good old common sense inthere, advice that sounds healthy and realistic. Both on how to deal with grief here and now and how to have a long term strategy to get back together. But also advice on re-evaluating your goal on the way to know if you are trying to get back together for the right reasons - all that sort of thing. There was nothing amazingly special inthere, but a step by step guide to getting to a point where you can possibly start over - and then guides on how/when to meet up with him again, what to avoid, what to do - those sorts of things. Also advice on when it is sensible to walk away and move on. Oh well. I do feel better and more optimistic after reading through it, so I guess it wasn't money entirely wasted. Cheaper than a therapist anyway - and I was seriously considering that too so..

I enlisted on a dating site - mainly to shop through the possibles just to get a sense of having options for my future. I will work on starting up some casual dating before too long. Wont be aiming for relationship material to begin with but more like - meet up with some men and get an idea of the landscape IYKWIM.

[sugarmoon]

(((Seie)))) Hang in there, mama. Do some window shopping while you greive.

Jen, it is tricky, isn't it? I'm in my early 30's and it is the same way. Almost everyone I know is married. Sometimes I've felt like I should just wait 5 years for everyone else to start getting divorced

Holland, your date sounds great. Glad you had a good time, and very gratifying to get a sweet text right away. I think you are right -- short first dates can be great for building some tension/attraction (and are also good in case it's a dud!).

I'm doing okay with my zen. We exchanged a few emails last night, and he acknowledged being a "big grump" in the morning -- this morning when I was in town I sent him a text to see if he wanted to meet me and my littlest at the coffee shop where we were hanging out, but he didn't have time before work -- he did sound genuine in his disapointment that he couldn't meet me though. So I'm feeling okay, but still not entirely sure. He works 12 hour shifts tonight and tomorrow -- I usually get some texts from him while he's at work, and a sweet late night email or text when he gets home, so we'll see. I'll consider it a good sign if that all comes through as normal.

But I'm less angsty about it.

And Holland and Mumblemama, I appreciate your converstation/thoughts on the men we date coming in and out of our children's lives. I was glad to see you point out teachers, Holland -- I never thought about that but yes, that is certainly true. Someone very influential and prominent in a child's life, but only for a year, or two at most, in public schools.

My kids have only met 2 of the men I've dated (one being ATG), and they only met Complications once, when he helped us unload the moving van at our new house -- there were also 2 guys I hired off craigslist there, so I don't think that Complications particularly stood out as anyone special in their minds!

It is tricky. If I had more shared custody, I wouldn't be introducing my kids so early. But I agree with Holland, how a man relates to my kids and how my kids relate to him is a pretty big factor in how I'd feel about a potential long term relationship. When I was dating Complications, we both took our kids to the fair on the same day -- we didnt' go together, didn't hang out at it, but it is a small fair and we were frequently standing at the base of the same ride, waiting for our kds to come off. That was sort of a fun way to get a sneak peek at how he was with his kids, and kids in general, without intro'ing our kids. For a guy with kids, I could see this working, but for someone without kids, I don't see how you could have them come hang out at the playground without it being odd to the kids.

I'm rambling now

[JohnnysGirl]

Seie, Oh sweetie. Oh honey. I do love the positive and grounded approach you described but you buying an expensive 'getting back together' book just breaks my heart a little. I just wanna hug you all up.

sugarmoon, I can understand how this would be a bit of a nail-biting stage of things. I just know it's going to work out though. I don't think that one hairy night will put him off completely. H e's given such amazing, healthy pro-children signals thusfar.... no reason to think it's going to implode because he was grumpy and sleep deprived one morning.

Jen, we're the same age! And here in this country 30 doesn't feel like 'everyone's married' age. In fact only one of my girlfriends in this city is married. Sorry your date didn't spark. But there will be someone else to get your mind off of JC soon...

Holland, Pakistani guy sounds awesome!!! I can't wait to hear about Date#2

Zeta, they're not online just to be online, they are online to get their ego stroked. And it's free. They are killing time while at work, or just feeling unhappy and it makes them feel slightly better.

eewiew it sounds like you have such amazing prospects in the pipeline! I'm voting for witty engineer just 'cus I love witties. Did I ever tell ya'll that Smooth & Witty is engaged to a woman much older with two kids who has moved in with him? For any of ya'll who remember my february-may entanglement with Smoothie.... just an interesting update.

AlwaysByMySide, if he can't hide his crazy at this stage, just imagine the amount of crazy in six months. So sorry you're down.


As for me, well... eh. meh. nothing.

[sugarmoon]

((((((Butterfly)))))))))

That's all there is to say, I think.

I'm sorry.

[LoveOhm]

MamaJen I am not a fan of blind dates which is one reason that internet dating does not appeal to me. We all have our own approaches and there is a air of uncomfortableness in myself if I don't know the person - at least thru a friend of a friend of a friend - and for me POF and OKC are not counted as "friends" LOL! This approach does mean it takes effort being social to meet guys in person (even if thru friends) though.....

I know your date has passed but for future reference I like to wear jeans a cute top and a blazer or nice coat with open toe heels yes even if it's cold (boots or closed toe shoes only in rain or snow for the first few dates).... if not in jeans I like to wear dresses they are easy because you only need one item so I live in dresses a sweater dress if it's cold.

Holland73 sounds like the date went really really good. I do like short dates initially but I do relate to keeping your son up late on a school night, I just did that yesterday myself and am paying for it today with my dd.

sugarmoon while I understand you shared the "real" you I think going forward (even after this incident I would do a gradual approach). In that situation I would have come over for a short amount of time then left.... esp knowing my dd likes to sleep in the bed with me, ya know. That said him being able to communicate that he was overwealmed was a good sign that you have healthy communication going on. And for what it's worth my single never married no children having girl friend brought her BF to a 4th of July party of another girl friend of ours (who has three kids between her and her fiancee - with two ex's whom they share those kids with, a house a mortage, etc.) I was there with my dd and my male BFF, another friend was there with her 4 kids and husband and the date the childless friend came with was completely overwealmed................. and once asked if he was overwealmed (by my male BFF) he instantly felt better just being allowed to feel overwealmed without judgement. I say all this to say don't press the issue allow him to have his feelings and going forward build up so it's not so intense all at once ---- sometimes it's nice to walk instead of jog.

Originally Posted by Holland73

I cannot imagine getting serious with someone without them first meeting and interacting with ds. That is too big of a component in my life to be left in the dark... ykwim?

: I completely agree and while my dd has not spent any significant time with anyone I have dated when I briefly considered dating the Agent seriously I made a point to stop by his office with my dd one so he knew what a two year old looked like (his son is in 8th grade) but also because I know he wants a relationship and I can't be in anything serious with out my "plus one" being included.

I don't know what my approach will be for introducing my dd to men as I date them. In the past I thought keep them separate until it's serious but really there is no chance for a serious relationship or even spending significat time with a guy unless he is exposed to my dd.

Seie glad to read you are in a happier space and that the book helped. I went on a dating site just as a ego boost in the end I was only annoyed by the online scene but when bored it did take up some time Did you happen to listen to the song I mentioned? I think it is very powerful.

AlwaysByMySide I agree with Butterflymom! (((HUGS)))

Originally Posted by Butterflymom

It doesn't sound like a guy who is completely over me, does it? He doesn't even pretend to act like he is. But he's with her. And promising her that he's broken contact with me, 10 months ago. But if I call, he answers. And he writes to me. Let alone sees me on the street and in crowds and in his dreams...... I don't envy her. Adn I despise him. And this situation.

Be happy you are not that women who would want a guy like that.....? I do hope a man as amazing as you comes and fights for your affection because you are a diamond!

on a side note: I love all the pics from London butterfly you look so stunning!

[Rosehip]

Ok, I know I'm WAY behind, and I'll miss lots of people, but I'll try!

Butterfly - just be glad you're not tangled up with him. I'm sorry it's so sticky, but he's not a good prospect for someone as special as you mama!

Seie - Stay strong, be gentle with yourself, and take your time before you throw yourself into dating again.

Sugarmoon - He still sounds pretty good! A sleepover in a new place with my kids might even overwhelm *me!* Keep us posted! I have often thought about how in a few years, there will be more single men *again!*

Jen - Pretty much all my peers are married and getting heavy into babymaking right now! I was actually the first of my friends, by at least a year or two, to have kids. In my circle, people tend to marry/have kids pretty late. If a date is nice, even if it might not inspire Ben Franklin, I'd say try #2 if he asks! After my past experience w/a narcissist, nice, considerate, and passable conversation seems downright sizzling! Hey, you never know!

Holland - VERY promising! Can't wait to hear more!

As for me, I went out with squash partner again. I continue to enjoy our dates! And he brought me two gifts back from his trip to his country - one of them was something he ordered for me specifically (customized). I thought that was very sweet. There are two major developments. One that may affect long-term viability. He's rec'd an initial job offer that would require a move far away. I won't continue the relationship if he moves. He's told them he wouldn't be willing to start for several months, and is waiting to see if he gets it in writing. Basically, b/c he'll be able to split his time between the new city & the city where his children live, it's a no-brainer so long as the terms are good, etc. He would prefer to stay in this area (which is the national center of his industry), but otherwise the other job is ideal. Second, his kids are here for a couple of months! I last saw him the night before they arrived. He mentioned my meeting them, but didn't offer any specifics. I'm just going to see where he goes with it. I'm of the "go VERY slow with getting kids involved camp," but on the other hand, they don't live in this country, so it's a rare opportunity.

[JohnnysGirl]

Originally Posted by LoveOhm

on a side note: I love all the pics from London butterfly you look so stunning!

Awww, thanks.

[NaturalMindedMomma]

Originally Posted by sugarmoon

Feeling a bit angsty this am. ATG was housesitting (for a good friend of mine, I got him the job) yesterday, and school was canceled due to snow -- the kids and I ended up going over there at lunch time, and ended up sleeping over.

It was a bit of kid overdose for ATG -- he didnt' get any sleep between his night owl ways, my kids getting in bed with me/us in a too smal bed, and us getting up early to go to school. I just IM'd with him a bit and asked him, on a scale of 1-10 with 1 being totally cool and 10 being totally freaked where he was and he said 8.5...



I don't know. He was going to go take a nap, maybe he'll feel better when he's gotten some sleep. And although it was too much too soon, it is also real, you know?

Ugh. This is the part I hate.

I had to respond to this. I have a guy friend whom I have some major chemistry with. I am not in a position to be in a relationship at this time although I would love to be with him, eventually (I think, lol). He was an aquaintance of one of my exes (and his barber). They no longer talk. We will call him "Chocolate man". We have remained friends though.

I just wanted to say I understand what you are going through. I have, in small doses, introduced him to my kids. But we both know that he is no where near ready to have them around in large doses. He is GREAT with them and really does like them. I also think if he spent a night with me, he wouldn't be freaked out, but possibly annoyed. LOL I mean people without kids can sleep when they want, come and go as they please, right?

So I guess my point is, that if ATG feels like that was too much for him (it seems it may have been, but he seems to have calmed a bit by your posts) it may be best to slow down a little. Because it is YOUR reality, eventually if things were to go somewhere he would have to understand that and accept it. It seems like your ok with it either way, which is good... Just be careful. He my just not be ready for "real" and shielding them from "real" gets old kinda fast. Just wanted to commiserate.

[NaturalMindedMomma]

ME THINKS I NEED TO CHANGE MY SIGGIE??? LOL

Ok so Chocolate man.... lets talk about this man... I have known him for over a year now. He was my exes kinda friend/aquaintance/family friend (someone I am not involved with anymore, not dds dad). He was also his barber. I always found him very sexy and liked his no crap personality. I got to know him well, without any expectations so I saw him for HIM, you know guys can make you see what they want you to if they know you are "LOOKING" I had him over for dinner once and there was crazy chemistry (but I was in the relationship with ex and obviously couldn't do anything about that, I was also pregnant).

Anyhoo... We didn't talk after my ex left and in the meantime I tried to rekindle the relationship with the girls dad. Fast forward to Sept of this year. I see him at the court house (he wasn't in any trouble, lol). We exchange numbers and start talking, more and more it becomes a daily thing. I am attracted to this man and my relationship with DD's dad is dead in the water (HAS BEEN FOR 6 YEARS, but we just keep trying). I am completely enamored with this guy. He is attractive, smart, caring, and just plain amazing. Loves his mom and family, genuinly respects women. Has a nice clean apartment that he shares with his sister and neice. Always available to me when I need him for whatever. We have been out to breakfast a few times, I made him and his family (neice and soon to be BIL) breakfast at his place and brought my girls. I have baked for him and go and visit him at work often. He is into music like me (He actually sang backup for Elton John with his sister), dancing and we just can talk and talk and he is completely interested in ME. Wants to know who I am and remembers EVERYTHING I say. He just makes me GLOW...

I have one concern.... He was in a five year relationship that ended in January of this year. He has out right told me he is not ready for a relationship right now, neither am I, but I LIKE HIM and I like a challenge( LOL J/K). Am I wasting my time by spending it with him? I really like him, I just hate to get hurt, KWIM??? I think my expectations need to change of what relationships entail...

I mean he knows I am a naturalistic person, knows my stance on circing, knows I ate my placenta, i use cloth for momma and babies, which most people would think I was a friggin nut, but he thinks I am a cool nut and never runs. I feel like I can be me with him. I feel like he understands me and doesn't judge....

Ok I need to go back and read up and respond... I wrote a book, sorry.

[Holland73]

Originally Posted by NaturalMindedMomma

I am attracted to this man and my relationship with DD's dad is dead in the water (HAS BEEN FOR 6 YEARS, but we just keep trying).

Wait... are you still together with your DP/DH? Are you still living with him? I understand that the relationship is 'dead in the water', but does he know that? Are you still "trying"?

Personally, I wouldn't be moving onto anyone until the relationship I was currently in was 100% over and both parties knew it.

Originally Posted by NaturalMindedMomma

Am I wasting my time by spending it with him?

I think that if you enjoy the time you are spending with him, then how can you be wasting your time. Try to stay in the moment and just enjoy the times you do have with him. Don't future trip, don't get hung up on the what-ifs and just stay in the moment and see what happens -- without expectations. As soon as you put expectations into the mix, everything will get complicated and confusing. Enjoy it for what it is... fun times that feel good at the moment.

Originally Posted by NaturalMindedMomma

I really like him, I just hate to get hurt, KWIM??? I think my expectations need to change of what relationships entail...

Honestly, if you already really like him... you are already going to get hurt. Any, and all, relationships are a risk of hurt and heartache. I always just remind myself that I will survive any and all hurt and heartache (it is a part of life) and I would rather have the amazing experiences than keep myself guarded and sheltered, which would never allow me those amazing experiences.

[eewieew]

Originally Posted by Butterflymom

eewiew it sounds like you have such amazing prospects in the pipeline! I'm voting for witty engineer just 'cus I love witties. Did I ever tell ya'll that Smooth & Witty is engaged to a woman much older with two kids who has moved in with him? For any of ya'll who remember my february-may entanglement with Smoothie.... just an interesting update.

First I'll address this. WE and I had a fantastic night. Like I said, lots of chemistry, and great melding of the minds - fantastic political discussion, witty banter...really cool. We texted all day the following day, but he canceled with me for last night, and I haven't heard from him since Thurs. At this point, I'm assuming that he's busy (he's finishing up his dissertation) and giving it time. Definitely hopeful that he'll get in touch, but playing it cool, meaning not contacting him. Don't want to be perceived as needy or crazy.

Second thing I want to address is the men meeting kids thing. I always felt that I didn't want to parade my men around in front of my daughter. My sister did that to my nephew and I see that it's been really hard for him, as his father is really not involved at all. E's dad is totally involved, and we've discussed how to handle this, and decided that in order for our lovers to meet Eden, things do have to be a little serious, and the other parent has to meet them too. Luckily, my ex and I are on good terms and hang out pretty often sans baby, and still have really open and honest communication, so this really isn't an issue. I'm friends with his girlfriend now, and we like not having "separate" lives. He's totally cool to take her if I have a date, or like tonight, overnight plans.

You all make a really good point, though, regarding the importance of a man's interactions with your children, and showing them your "Real Life." None of the men that I see have kids. ODD likes kids but does not want any biological children.
So in a nutshell, there is nothing on my radar that is serious enough to warrant a playdate, but it is something that I want to tread very carefully and deliberately with.

Which leads me to another question for you ladies. What is your relationship like with your child's father? I vacillate a lot with mine. We still really really like each other, there is still a lot of love (not romantic) but we are not together. We do spend time together without the baby to "check in" and are super supportive friends. We're able to talk about our dating disasters and emotional conflict...he really is still one of my best friends. I think that our closeness only benefits our daughter, and we both agree that it is just as important to continue nurturing our relationship with each other as it is for us to nurture ours individually with E.

Obviously this makes suitors a little uncomfortable. I had a rough night the other night at ex's apartment--I found my wedding ring, which made me a little sentimental and I'll admit--it was hard, and ODD wanted to know what was wrong, so I told him. I'm not going to lie. He joked that I should have slept with ex, but I could tell that he was a little bothered. I mean, he's younger, his longest relationship was right around 2 years,and here I am, going thru a divorce, with a kid, and all sorts of other baggage that he hasn't had to deal with before.

Pulling back from my ex is not an option. We are in this together, and I feel like the right guy for me will understand and appreciate that, and be secure enough to realize that if we wanted to be together, we would be. But I guess I realize that it is tricky, and am curious to know how those relationships fit with you guys.

Wow, that was a lot. If you're still reading,

[sugarmoon]

eewieew, that is what my ex and I had originally talked about, but it all went down and fast, for us, so no advice from me.

I got my usual very sweet late night texts from ATG last night after he got off work, I think we're all good, at least for the stage of the relationship we're it. This whole conversation about kids and timing is giving me lots to think about though, which is great. I had always thought I'd wait AT LEAST 3 months, probably more like 6 months to intro a guy to my kids, but I also thought I'd have some shared parenting going on. I don't, and I can't afford a sitter except for very occasionally, so if I'm going be able to spend a day with someone, the kids are going to have to be included.

I've not introduced him as anything other than a friend, and only the 2 yr old has seen us have any kind of physical contact. And while we may not do that much kid-contact time again anytime soon, it is good for him to have the snapshot of what my life is really like. For me, if I spend time with someone only without my kids, I feel like it is really false. I mean, that part of me is real too, but the part of me as 'mom' is so much more of my day-to-day life.

I'm hoping I'll get my kid-free Sunday tomorrow, that I usually have, but xh called this morning with a saga that means he may not come to take the kids for the day.