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December H1N1/Swine Flu Vax Discussion - Page 6

post #101 of 146
That's seriously so funny-at least to me. I imagine a lot of parents who got the vax are going to be upset about this. I mean, so, shot works, but recall it, but don't worry it works. Sounds like a dr suess book.
post #102 of 146
When did the guys at the CDC forget how to do simple addition?
post #103 of 146
10,000?
post #104 of 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gitti View Post
What's not so funny to me is that those shots were prefilled.

WHY?

The 800,000 pre-filled syringes that were recalled are for young children, ages 6 months to nearly 3 years.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20091215/...ne_flu_vaccine
Quote:
Originally Posted by amnesiac View Post
Because that's how any vaccine comes - it's either in multi-dose vials, single dose vials or pre-filled syringes that the provider attaches a needle to.
I see. When my own kids got vaccinated, 38 - 40 years ago, all vaccines were drawn up from a vial.
post #105 of 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gitti View Post
I see. When my own kids got vaccinated, 38 - 40 years ago, all vaccines were drawn up from a vial.
The up-side (or not) is that multi-dose vials require a preservative, mostly (always?) thimerosol, but the singles (pre-filled or single vials) don't.
post #106 of 146
The issue with the recall makes you wonder. Is a reduction in potency normal and expected? They were testing for it, so it seems like it's something they've considered. Was the reduction more than they expected, or was the original batch less potent than they intended? It sounded like whatever they were measuring was quite near the cut-off, and since that's a somewhat arbitrary number, I'm guessing the doses are almost as effective as the other batches.

How much of most medicines don't ship due to quality/efficacy concerns? I can't tell if we just hear about vaccine recalls more than other medical recalls, or if the manufacturing process itself is less well-controlled.
post #107 of 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by TanyaLopez View Post
The issue with the recall makes you wonder. Is a reduction in potency normal and expected? They were testing for it, so it seems like it's something they've considered. Was the reduction more than they expected, or was the original batch less potent than they intended? It sounded like whatever they were measuring was quite near the cut-off, and since that's a somewhat arbitrary number, I'm guessing the doses are almost as effective as the other batches.

How much of most medicines don't ship due to quality/efficacy concerns? I can't tell if we just hear about vaccine recalls more than other medical recalls, or if the manufacturing process itself is less well-controlled.
it's actually a fairly common occurrence and not just with vaccines. when I was taking drugs to treat mental health conditions, there were 4 recalls in the 3 years due to potency problems- and thats just the few drugs I was on. I can't imagine how many there were for drugs I *wasnt* on
post #108 of 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fyrestorm View Post
When did the guys at the CDC forget how to do simple addition?

When did they know how to do simple addition?
post #109 of 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by Juvysen View Post
Last week they re-adjusted the numbers again more than doubling the more than doubled numbers that they derrived from adjusting the numbers they actually COUNTED -wait, did they actually count any?

you know... to sell the rest of the vaccine...
Really? How did I miss that?? This is just insane.
post #110 of 146
*joining*

I hope this hasn't been asked too much here, but what's the deal with this recall exactly?

Why hasn't "antigen sticking to the walls of the vaccine" ever been a problem before with single-vile vaccines? And is it true that the antigen in this case was the killed h1n1?

I'm discussing it with someone else and I'm getting more confused than ever.

Thanks for any info.
post #111 of 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by Juvysen View Post
Nope, it's not permanant. Think of other vaccines - you have to get a booster to keep the immunity going.

If the virus mutates, depending on HOW it mutates, it won't be useful to have had EITHER the vax or the natural immunity, from what I understand. Basically, there are parts of the virus that your body "recognizes" when it's had it before (or a vax) but if one of (or a certain number of) those sites on the virus mutates, you won't be protected any longer, as far as I know. Vaccinating with the old virus after the virus has mutated would be an exercise in futility.

What can cause a virus to mutate? I am wondering because my doctor was insisting I get the H1N1 vaccine and I declined. She said she got the H1N1 flu herself and it was pretty bad. So I jokingly said to her well at least you are immune to it. And she said it's mutating. She was one case of the H1N1 virus mutating.

So in my mind I thought what could have caused it to mutate? Was it the H1N1 vaccine itself since they do use genetically altered viruses. I guess I was comparing the virus mutation to some types of bacteria that are resistant to antibiotics because the mutated as well.
post #112 of 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by tatsu15 View Post
What can cause a virus to mutate? I am wondering because my doctor was insisting I get the H1N1 vaccine and I declined. She said she got the H1N1 flu herself and it was pretty bad. So I jokingly said to her well at least you are immune to it. And she said it's mutating. She was one case of the H1N1 virus mutating.

So in my mind I thought what could have caused it to mutate? Was it the H1N1 vaccine itself since they do use genetically altered viruses. I guess I was comparing the virus mutation to some types of bacteria that are resistant to antibiotics because the mutated as well.
Well, the flu is known for its ability to mutate. I mean, they tend to mutate really easily which is why everyone was freaking out - easily passed virus + deadly mutation = scary scenario. However... for the same reason that getting the virus itself (and the natural immunity that way) won't necessarily cover you for immunity to a mutated virus, the vaccine won't work either. They're using the same (supposedly extremely stable) virus. There was talk of a mutation in the Ukraine, but it looks like that's not what really happened, they just had other issues with their medical situation and some hysteria based on the political situation there, I guess.

Anyway, the flu viruses mutate pretty much every year, which is why they have an annual flu vaccine with different viruses in it... mutated forms of previous viruses, I believe (and the occasional new one). But viruses just replicate very fast, and mutations are just random changes in the dna - most of them are useless and the organism can't function, but occasionally a "good" mutation happen to the organism that makes it function *differently* - sometimes it's more dangerous to us, and sometimes less. Generally, though, unless the mutation affects the "H" or the "N" (as in H1N1) proteins that are part of the coat, we should still keep immunity if we have it (if I understand this right) because those are the things that our immune system recognizes... when those change is when suddenly we're back to being without immunity, but I could be wrong.

Mutation just means a random change in the dna that caught on and spread, essentially, because it was an effective change for the VIRUS. Something that I *have* heard may be causing changes to the virus is the overuse of Tamiflu creating tamiflu resistance. Not that tamiflu was apparently overly effective anyway, if you look at the recent studies coming out about it.

Beyond that, though, they keep commenting on how remarkably stable this virus is - which is actually why the vaccine was useful at all... and why those over 60 yrs may have some immunity to it - from an outbreak way back in the day. With the number of people the virus infected over the course of the Southern flu season, there was a decent statistical probability of seeing some mutations that made the vaccine completely useless, but that's not what happened.
post #113 of 146
Here is a video from a young man that got suspended and assaulted by his teacher for handing out antivaccine flyers on h1n1 shot day.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t3_wxy7wHac
post #114 of 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lydiah View Post
Here is a video from a young man that got suspended and assaulted by his teacher for handing out antivaccine flyers on h1n1 shot day.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t3_wxy7wHac
Good for him! We need more kids like him in this world. The Principal and teachers involved should be ashamed of themselves!



My Elderly Grandma got the H1N1 shot and then got sick.
post #115 of 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lydiah View Post
Here is a video from a young man that got suspended and assaulted by his teacher for handing out antivaccine flyers on h1n1 shot day.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t3_wxy7wHac

The guy needs a lawyer, badly. And, of course, the teacher and principal should be either fired or severely disciplined.
post #116 of 146
Thread Starter 
Please remember to remain focused on the topic & not on specific individuals.
post #117 of 146
Latest from CDC:

http://www.cdc.gov/flu/weekly/weekly...0/WhoLab49.htm

And Google Flu Trends:

http://www.google.org/flutrends/intl/en_us/us/

Merry Christmas everyone!
post #118 of 146
Question how do the healthy ones end up dying from the flu or get it severe ? One girl whose my son age ended up not having a fever was complaining of her legs aching then she was dead so I just wonder if there is more to that story ? They said her case was confirmed to be H1N1 .

So I'm like since many kids death are close to my son age I'm like I don't want the vax but am fearing the disease even though many cases are mild.

I'm wandering my mind in & aabout wondering how can some people get pnemonia treated especially my next door neighbor who will continue to smoke while she has pneumonia or brochitis. Can get somewhat well but for some a reason a healthy kid who ends up on antibiotics can't get better from bacterial pnemonia ?

Also, they say bacterial menigitis is the other secondary infection with it but if it gets treated at early signs it will have a 15% mortality rate

So I'm like sigh sometimes I'm just wondering and it's like I don't feel like at times that H1N1 or the shot is that safe so I'm like seeing other get shot without adverse side effects and some that do so I'm like wringing my fingers out !
post #119 of 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by MommytoB View Post
Question how do the healthy ones end up dying from the flu or get it severe ? One girl whose my son age ended up not having a fever was complaining of her legs aching then she was dead so I just wonder if there is more to that story ? They said her case was confirmed to be H1N1 .

So I'm like since many kids death are close to my son age I'm like I don't want the vax but am fearing the disease even though many cases are mild.

I'm wandering my mind in & aabout wondering how can some people get pnemonia treated especially my next door neighbor who will continue to smoke while she has pneumonia or brochitis. Can get somewhat well but for some a reason a healthy kid who ends up on antibiotics can't get better from bacterial pnemonia ?

Also, they say bacterial menigitis is the other secondary infection with it but if it gets treated at early signs it will have a 15% mortality rate

So I'm like sigh sometimes I'm just wondering and it's like I don't feel like at times that H1N1 or the shot is that safe so I'm like seeing other get shot without adverse side effects and some that do so I'm like wringing my fingers out !
Well, if you look at Jenelle's last post (right before yours), you'll see that the numbers of H1N1 infection is now very very low. His chances of getting it are not very good, and if he does his chances of dying from it are the same chance as it was when everyone was getting sick - that is, below 1%... so ... basically, if only 5% of the population has it right now, and only 1% of THOSE are getting severely ill/dying from it, you're looking at less chance of that happening than of him getting hit by lightening and dying, I believe. You've more to worry about every time you put him in your car and drive across town than you do from H1N1.

And to reiterate previous statements, if it mutates, all bets are off that the vaccine will work either, so there's no point in getting it for that. And beyond that, they keep talking about a "third wave" but the liklihood of that is slim since it's herd immunity (from so many being ill previously) according to experts, that is causing the numbers of cases to plummet.

So, you've far less to worry about now than you did in October, and even then it wasn't a lot to worry about.
post #120 of 146
Even in October or November, I read a quote from a doctor, saying your child had more chance of being killed by a drunk driver than being killed by H1N1.
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