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DS's Genova Stool Results

post #1 of 13
Thread Starter 
Some interesting things here. I just got the copy from the osteopath. I need to talk to him about it next week when I take DS in (I was in today for me). If anyone knows anything about anything, let me know. I've been googling. Out of range numbers are bolded. The short version from the doc was he has leaky gut (duh), no beneficial bacteria, and some putrification.

Analyte [Digestion/Absorption]
Pancreatic Elastase 213 (Ref. Range >=201mcg/g)
Putrefactive SCFAs 7 (Ref. Range 1.3-8.6 micromol/g) - doc said this wasn't good

Analyte [Gut Immunology]
Eosinophil Protein X </0.5 (Ref. Range <=7.0 mcg/g)
Calprotectin <17 (Ref. Range <=50 mcg/g)

Analyte [Metabolic]
Beneficial SCFAs 36.1 (Ref. Range >=13.6 micromol/g)
n-Butyrate 11.6 (Ref. Range >= 2.5 micromol/g)
pH 6.7 (Ref. range 6.1-7.9)
Beta-Glucuronidase 9133 (Ref. Range 337-4433 U/g)

Secondary Bile Acids [Metabolic]
Lithocholic Acid (LCA) 6.24 (Ref. range 0.65-5.21 mg/g)
Deoxycholic Acid (DCA) 4.96 (Ref. range 0.67-6.76 mg/g)
LCA/DCA Ratio 1.26 (Ref. Range 0.39-2.07)

Bacteriology [Microbiology]
Beneficial Bacteria
Lactobacillus species *NG (no growth) (should be 2+ or greater)
E. Coli *NG (no growth) (should be 2+ or greater)
Bifidobacterium 3+ (should be 4+)
Additional Bacteria
alpha haemolytic Streptococcus 4+
haemolytic E. coli 4+
Klebsiella pneumoniae 3+
Citrobacter farmeri 4+ (doctor said he should probably go on short course abx for this one)

Negative for H. pylori, Shiga toxin E. coli, Campylobacter, Clostridium difficile, and occult blood

No parasites/larvae

The doctor was surprised that there wasn't any inflammation, though if he's been avoiding his trigger foods for about 18 months, maybe the inflammation isn't there? For the last year he's been on probiotics (coconut milk yogurt, GIProx12, GIProx2, and S. Boulardii all summer). So why does he still have no beneficial bacteria in there. Isn't that odd?

He had 1 round of abx when he was maybe 2yo for a sinus infection. He's never had any ear infections or anything like that. Of course that "sinus infection" was probably one of those times he was back on milk because he'd "outgrown" the milk intolerance.

Anyway, if anyone has any insight to what could help any of this, or even what questions to ask the doctor, that would be great. The other thing is, are these results the CAUSE of the food intolerances or the EFFECT of the food intolerances (chicken and egg theory, which came first).

Analyte Chymotrypsin 4.5 (Ref. Range 0.9-26.8 U/g)

Fecal Fat Distribution
Triglycerideas 0.7 (o.2-3.3 mg/g)
cholesterol 0.5 (0.2-3.5 mg/g)
Long Chain Fatty Acids 14.3 (1.3-23.7 mg/g)
Phospholipids 0.8 (0.2-8.8 mg/g)
Fecal Fat Total 16.3 (2.6-32.4 mg/g)

Metabolic Products
Acetate % 48.4 (Ref Range 44.5-72.4%)
Proprionate % 19.5 (Ref. Range <=32.1%
n-Butyrate % 32.1 (Ref. Range 10.8-33.5%) high end, dr said
post #2 of 13
Thread Starter 
Here's a link that tells some interesting things about gut and about stool testing.

Here's the link to Genova.
post #3 of 13
You've shown the hair test results to the doc, right? I've never read specifically about lead, I'd try to read about lead and leaky gut and gut dysbiosis, since that seems likely to be interrelated. I don't know the mechanism, but I thought part of the problem with heavy metals is that they change the environment in that gut so that beneficial bacteria can't stick around there (I don't know if that's based on pH, or something else).

My first thought would be to agree that since you've got him off his problematic foods, that's avoiding the inflammation. Yay Mom!
post #4 of 13
Quote:
Originally Posted by TanyaLopez View Post
You've shown the hair test results to the doc, right? I've never read specifically about lead, I'd try to read about lead and leaky gut and gut dysbiosis, since that seems likely to be interrelated. I don't know the mechanism, but I thought part of the problem with heavy metals is that they change the environment in that gut so that beneficial bacteria can't stick around there (I don't know if that's based on pH, or something else).

Did you read this somewhere? Cause I can't seem to get good bacteria to colonize in any of us. Maybe this is why. I'd like to read mroe about it.


My first thought would be to agree that since you've got him off his problematic foods, that's avoiding the inflammation. Yay Mom!
I'd be interested in what the osteo has to say about it. Hard to wait, though.
post #5 of 13
Quote:
Did you read this somewhere? Cause I can't seem to get good bacteria to colonize in any of us. Maybe this is why. I'd like to read more about it.
I thought I read it somewhere, but I don't remember where. It's one of those things I read somewhere, sometime back when I was reading a whole lot. I think it's part of the reason why I decided to stop focusing so much on DD's poop and just try to keep her "good enough" while we chelate (which I'm not sure I'm succeeding at). Now, is that the right decision? I don't know, it helped my sanity and focus.

Kathy, consider asking on the autism-mercury yahoo group. They'd know stool results pretty well, you could see if it's pretty typical or not for kids with metals. Maybe it's not typical, either way, I hope your doc has some interesting thoughts, I hope you'll share after the appt.
post #6 of 13
Thread Starter 
I'll definitely bring up the metals issue with the osteo. And DS doesn't have any fillings or anything, so he would've gotten everything from me, so it seems like chelating would work for him. And I think I talked about it once before with the osteo, so maybe now is a good time. I'll also ask over on the yahoo autism board. And of course I'll share what I learn!!
post #7 of 13

Kathy (or anyone else who has dealt with a low functioning pancreas),

 

I know this thread is really old, but I'm wondering if your son's pancreatic elastase level ever went up after you did more dietary and/or supplement interventions with him? If so, would you mind sharing what you did to help him?  

 

I just got back my son's Metametrix GI Effects test, and his elastase was 195, which is clinically low. (My understanding is that 200 is the minimum low before you go into pancreatic insufficiency territory, but ideally you want your elastase to be over 500.)  My son has a lot of other GI stuff going on too, including multiple food intolerances, is not digesting fats very well, has an unidentified parasite, and has high levels of some flora and low-ish levels of other flora (but none outside the reference ranges).  He was negative for yeast/fungus, but was high for fecal sigA, which supposedly indicates immune system reactions to the presence of antigens from bacteria, yeast or other microbes (though may just indicate he is reacting to something he is eating).

 

Thank you for any help.  These results are devastating to me.    

post #8 of 13
Thread Starter 

Well look at that, I never updated what happened at the doctor. The osteopath put him on PanXyme (Xymogen I believe), TruFiber, Enzylase, and Theralac.  He also ended up being tested for lyme disease, from me (aren't I sweet to share with him in the womb?), and he, his younger sister, and I all have chronic lyme. Which added some more things on. But those really helped his digestion. If that was 18 months after he started the 70-80 food elimination... then we ended up adding more foods in. It's now 3.5 years since starting the elimination, 2 years-ish since the Genova stool test, and a year and a half since lyme Diagnosis and starting treatment (he's still getting treated for that), and he only has these foods out of his diet at the moment: cow dairy (he seems okay with sheep and goat), soy, egg, white potato, blue dye #1, yellow dye #5, oops, almost forgot gluten. I have not had him retested (though I've been thinking about it to see if things have improved in his poo like they seem to have everywhere else). That's the update. A little late.

post #9 of 13

Oh this thread is old...I am still trying to figure out my Genova CDSA results from May 2011. I had a few similar things that were out of ref like your son (high putrefactive scfa's 7.8, high beta-glucuronidase, high fecal fat, phospholipids and long chain fatty acids) The naturopath I ordered the test from said to just take HCL and things will get better, that I had low stomach acid. I think it is something else because when I took the HCL, just one capsule, my stomach hurt and was burning. I only took it a few times and then stopped.

I am wanting to get the pancreatic testing through Genova, since more than one of those high numbers could mean pancreatic insufficiency. I am having floating stools and more than once a week I see oil floating in the toilet. 

 

If I brought these stool results test to my regular doctor and told her about how my stool is what do you think she would do? Would she refer me to someone? I guess that is what I am hoping. 

Or do I have to order the test through the natropath, with whom I don't feel like she knows a lot about situations like mine.

 

 

Thanks for any input!

post #10 of 13

Kathy,

 

Thanks for your reply.  I'm sorry to hear about the lyme disease.  Do you think the lyme caused all the intolerances and digestive issues for you guys?  Or did you have issues before?  Also, I'm wondering if your doctor had any theories as to why his pancreatic function was low?  Did the doctor think it would improve with treatment?  Was the doctor very concerned about the low functioning pancreas?  I'm a little beside myself about my son's labs.  My daughter and I also had labs run, and while my elastase was also low, it wasn't as low as my son's.  My daughter's wasn't in the optimal range, but much better than mine or my son's.  My son and I are also showing elevated fat in the stool too.  I got my results back first and thought it was because I have an overgrowth of an opportunistic bacteria, but now I'm wondering if it's something else.  Genetics? Chronic food intolerances causing inflammation which reduces the pancreatic function?  I know I have really low stomach acid, and have been supplementing for a couple of years which has made ALL THE DIFFERENCE for me, but why?  I do know that if you don't have enough stomach acid your pancreas doesn't get stimulated to release the enzymes needed to digest food.  I am testing my son on hydrochloric acid, and so far no burning stomach and he's up to three pills with largish meals.  

 

Northern Girl,

 

I would consider looking into Metametrix instead of Genova for your testing.  I had a Genova test done a little over a year ago, and then the Metametrix run recently.  The Metametrix gave WAY more info., and it is supposedly much more accurate than Genova.  I am seeing a new naturopath now, and she wouldn't even look at my Genova test because she said their methods are so outdated.  I have found that some doctors surprise me with open mindedness, but most don't seem to have any background in the kind of issues we've been dealing with, so I have to use more than one doctor to get the info/labs/results that I need.  All you can do is go in knowing what you want armed with the info to back yourself up, and keep looking if it doesn't go as planned.  

 

Any other thoughts would be much appreciated! 

 

 

post #11 of 13
Quote:
Originally Posted by periwinkle 88 View Post

Kathy,

 

Thanks for your reply.  I'm sorry to hear about the lyme disease.  Do you think the lyme caused all the intolerances and digestive issues for you guys?  Or did you have issues before?  Also, I'm wondering if your doctor had any theories as to why his pancreatic function was low?  Did the doctor think it would improve with treatment?  Was the doctor very concerned about the low functioning pancreas?  I'm a little beside myself about my son's labs.  My daughter and I also had labs run, and while my elastase was also low, it wasn't as low as my son's.  My daughter's wasn't in the optimal range, but much better than mine or my son's.  My son and I are also showing elevated fat in the stool too.  I got my results back first and thought it was because I have an overgrowth of an opportunistic bacteria, but now I'm wondering if it's something else.  Genetics? Chronic food intolerances causing inflammation which reduces the pancreatic function?  I know I have really low stomach acid, and have been supplementing for a couple of years which has made ALL THE DIFFERENCE for me, but why?  I do know that if you don't have enough stomach acid your pancreas doesn't get stimulated to release the enzymes needed to digest food.  I am testing my son on hydrochloric acid, and so far no burning stomach and he's up to three pills with largish meals.  

 

Northern Girl,

 

I would consider looking into Metametrix instead of Genova for your testing.  I had a Genova test done a little over a year ago, and then the Metametrix run recently.  The Metametrix gave WAY more info., and it is supposedly much more accurate than Genova.  I am seeing a new naturopath now, and she wouldn't even look at my Genova test because she said their methods are so outdated.  I have found that some doctors surprise me with open mindedness, but most don't seem to have any background in the kind of issues we've been dealing with, so I have to use more than one doctor to get the info/labs/results that I need.  All you can do is go in knowing what you want armed with the info to back yourself up, and keep looking if it doesn't go as planned.  

 

Any other thoughts would be much appreciated! 

 

 

Did you have your CDSA done or your pancreatic one done there, at Metametrix?

The reason why I want to just try at my regular doc is because I have insurance and I don't have any extra cash to pay a natropath. Dh did say if the reg dr. won't order a test like that or refer me to someone that we could order the test (on a credit card :(  ). I think it was $81 for the pancreatic one and a intestinal permeabiltiy one was $160. 

There is only one natropath in my city, so the one I've seen is the only option. Seems like she just thinks everyone has low stomach acid and we should all just take HCL and our problems will be solved. I think my situation is a little more involved than that.

 

We are 2 hours from a big city, but that's out of the question right now due to finances. 

 

Although I am still having problems (weird stool, food intolerances) I feel like I can't really go "gung ho" on things until dd is not nursing anymore (she'll be 2 in Feb). Not sure if that makes sense?

She has poop issues as well....

 

It's just hard knowing there is something wrong, yet I cannot figure it out myself, and due to finances cannot just go and see whomever.

 

Sigh.


 

 

post #12 of 13

Hi Northerngirl,

 

I would think a regular doctor could order some type of test to check for fat in stool and pancreatic function.  Our insurance paid for the majority of our Metametrix GI Effects test - we had to pay 10%, I think. (And our insurance does not cover naturopaths or much on the way of alternative medicine.) The GI Effects test is really comprehensive and included the elastase test for pancreatic function. It is a really expensive test if you do the entire test, but I think you can just do smaller subsections of the test if you just need something specific tested.  Things I have found out recently (that seem pertinent to my family's situation) about not digesting fat/low elastase include:  it can be from malabsorption due to untreated celiac/gluten intolerance or other GI food reactions, and it can also be from bacterial overgrowth.  From what I've read, when you deal with whatever is causing the problem/irritation, usually (not always) the pancreatic function will improve.  (I've been doing a lot of research the past couple of days!)  You could look at Metametrix's website and see everything that is included in the GI Effects test, and also view sample reports.  I certainly wish we had done this all sooner.  

post #13 of 13
Quote:
Originally Posted by periwinkle 88 View Post

Hi Northerngirl,

 

I would think a regular doctor could order some type of test to check for fat in stool and pancreatic function.  Our insurance paid for the majority of our Metametrix GI Effects test - we had to pay 10%, I think. (And our insurance does not cover naturopaths or much on the way of alternative medicine.) The GI Effects test is really comprehensive and included the elastase test for pancreatic function. It is a really expensive test if you do the entire test, but I think you can just do smaller subsections of the test if you just need something specific tested.  Things I have found out recently (that seem pertinent to my family's situation) about not digesting fat/low elastase include:  it can be from malabsorption due to untreated celiac/gluten intolerance or other GI food reactions, and it can also be from bacterial overgrowth.  From what I've read, when you deal with whatever is causing the problem/irritation, usually (not always) the pancreatic function will improve.  (I've been doing a lot of research the past couple of days!)  You could look at Metametrix's website and see everything that is included in the GI Effects test, and also view sample reports.  I certainly wish we had done this all sooner.  


It's really funny that you mention celiac/gluten intolerance because for some reason I have been thinking the same. I did test IgG low intolerance to wheat/gluten/rye, this was done 2009? I have not had the IgE test. I was tested for celiac previous to that maybe in 2008? The test was negative. I do know you can still have it and test negative. 

I have been gluten free since September-ish of 2010, after dd2 was born.

 

Another thing that maybe ties into this, I was talking to my mom and she mentioned that she's having her yearly physical soon and mentioned that she has osteopinia (sp?). She is now 53 and was diagnosed at 48. I was wondering why she was tested for it since she didn't break a bone or anything. Her mother was diagnosed with osteoperosis when she fell and broke her hand in her late 50's. Grandmas sister had osteoperosis very bad and was hunch backed. 

So people with celiac can get osteoperosis very easily? since they cannot absorb calcium and other fat soluble vitamins D, K.... (someone correct me if I am wrong here). Not saying that everyone with ostoperosis has celiac. But it is interesting to me. None of my relatives to my knowledge were celiac (or maybe some where and didn't know it).

 

It is just really concerning for me when my grandma (mom's side) had breast cancer, osteoperosis, and died of colon cancer. 

According to that stool test my beta-glucuronidase enzyme was elevated. Elevated levels of this are associated with a higher risk of colon cancer, as well as hyperestrogen conditions in the body....breast cancer.

 

Plus, once my mom started geting colonoscopies she has had polyops every single time. No cancer, but still. Deep in my gut I know that she will end up with either breast or colon cancer. 

 

 

 

 

 

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