Obey right away, all the way, every day... - Page 2

[Just1More]

I have been wandering around for 3 days trying to sing this song in my head, too. My kids looked at me funny when I burst out in Twinkle, twinkle while I was getting their plates tonight...I was trying to get the tune down. Ha! I'm with ya' pp's.

I also think kids should obey. I also don't like the song. It's too simplistic, and robotic. Maybe "Please do what Mama says, she loves you" or something...but "obey right away"? I dunno...it's just lacking and, yeah, creepy.

If we had a tree like that for my 2.5 ds, and he kept plugging it in and out (which is the real problem, right?), on a better parenting day I would...

1.) Evaluate WHY he is doing it...
2.) Evaluate WHY I care...
3.) Try to think of a compromise...

She isn't exactly being defiant, disrespectful, or disobediet here. (I believe that's the "catch phrase" right?). Anyway, she's not doing it for the sole reason of not obeying you. There's more too it. That's childishness. And something they'll grow out of on their own. The other stuff I spend more time on...the deliberate.

So..if my 2.5yo ds was plugging the light in everywhere, I would figure he probably wants to know if it works in ALL the sockets. EVERY time. So, I would say, "Buddy, this isn't for little guys to do. It's for Mama's. Do you want to see it again?" And I would do it for him. I'd make it clear, after a though examination of all the sockets, that he come get me if he wanted to see it again, and I'd be happy to help him so he didn't get hurt. (With my 4yo literal dd, I would add..."I know you did it and didn't get hurt, and you won't always, but..." and I would proceed with another explaination on that account.)

THEN...if he did it again without asking me for help, I would phrase the question for him. "Oh, hey. Remember? You were supposed to ask Mama for help. Let's try that, okay?" And then I'd help him.

After several times of that, when I was sure he knew the drill, if I was still having trouble with him, I would say, "You have to ask Mama for help. If you don't ask Mama, Mama will have to put the tree away."

Then, if it happened again, I would put it away, remind him of the conversation, and assure him he could try again tomorrow.

I know that seems like a lot for a 2.5yo, but my guy "gets it." We go slow, and explain lots, but I do expect him to control himself.

I disagree that the little ones can't. I agree that you can't COUNT on them to do it, but I am positive that you can expect them to.

[_betsy_]

Try telling her what TO DO, not what NOT to do. For example, with the tree, you'll probably need to repeatedly tell her things like "You can move all the ornaments where ever you want, but the tree stays right here" and "Let's leave the tree on the table, OK?"

And you might need to take it away. Now that she's knows it's mobile, she doesn't really have the impulse control at 2.5 to be able to stop herself even if she "knows" the rule. Maybe call that a preview, and bring the tree back out a couple days before Christmas. It may well be just too much temptation for her. OR, you can adjust your attitude about it and allow her to move it where ever she wants and you just have to get over it.

And yeah, I'd stop singing that song right quick. Doesn't seem to be helping anyone remember anything, except maybe giving you and your partner unrealistic expectations of her behavior.

[mamazee]

Originally Posted by Just1More

I disagree that the little ones can't. I agree that you can't COUNT on them to do it, but I am positive that you can expect them to.

This is largely an issue of semantics then. Because if you expect them to control themselves, you'd have to count on them being able to. If they aren't able to enough for you to count on them to do it, how can you expect them to? That's setting them up for failure.

[Just1More]

I can expect that the bagger who puts my groceries in the car will not squish my bread. I can't count on the bagger not to squish my bread, so I ask for the bread bag when they start loading. There is a difference between count on and expect.

I expect my children to listen to me, and I guide them to do so. I don't trust that they will 100%, so I don't let my 2 yo play outside without me (we live on a busy street). I expect when we are outside that he will stay in our yard. If he doesn't, I gently guide him back to our boundaries and reinforce the lesson as neccessary. Just because I EXPECT him not to go out of the yard doesn't mean that he will stay in.

It seems I read in the these threads a lot that a child CAN'T, so don't even try. And I just don't think that's true. I think we sell our children short of what they can be, and I think we keep them from doing a lot of things they could enjoy because we don't give them the chance to work on impulse control, because we don't expect they can get it.

[AngelBee]

Originally Posted by Just1More

I can expect that the bagger who puts my groceries in the car will not squish my bread. I can't count on the bagger not to squish my bread, so I ask for the bread bag when they start loading. There is a difference between count on and expect.

I expect my children to listen to me, and I guide them to do so. I don't trust that they will 100%, so I don't let my 2 yo play outside without me (we live on a busy street). I expect when we are outside that he will stay in our yard. If he doesn't, I gently guide him back to our boundaries and reinforce the lesson as neccessary. Just because I EXPECT him not to go out of the yard doesn't mean that he will stay in.

It seems I read in the these threads a lot that a child CAN'T, so don't even try. And I just don't think that's true. I think we sell our children short of what they can be, and I think we keep them from doing a lot of things they could enjoy because we don't give them the chance to work on impulse control, because we don't expect they can get it.

I totally agree with this.

[mamazee]

Then this is just an issue of semantics, because I do everything you do, but I don't use the word "expect". And, when I say "they can't", I just mean you can't count on it happening all the time. I don't think anyone says you shouldn't work on things if they can't control themselves, and I'd work on things exactly like you do.

Originally Posted by Just1More

I can expect that the bagger who puts my groceries in the car will not squish my bread. I can't count on the bagger not to squish my bread, so I ask for the bread bag when they start loading. There is a difference between count on and expect.

I expect my children to listen to me, and I guide them to do so. I don't trust that they will 100%, so I don't let my 2 yo play outside without me (we live on a busy street). I expect when we are outside that he will stay in our yard. If he doesn't, I gently guide him back to our boundaries and reinforce the lesson as neccessary. Just because I EXPECT him not to go out of the yard doesn't mean that he will stay in.

It seems I read in the these threads a lot that a child CAN'T, so don't even try. And I just don't think that's true. I think we sell our children short of what they can be, and I think we keep them from doing a lot of things they could enjoy because we don't give them the chance to work on impulse control, because we don't expect they can get it.

[phathui5]

A child who is taught to obey her parents will learn to obey all adults, and a child who is taught to obey to do good things will also obey to do bad things.

I don't think so. My children know that they have to obey dh and myself, but they've also been taught that they don't have to obey anyone who we haven't told them to, and that they never have to do anything that makes them uncomfortable.

As far as children being taken advantage of goes, I know from personal experience that children who don't have to listen to adults can be taken advantage of just as well as ones that think they have to listen. It's nice to think that by not teaching our kids to obey that they'll be safer somehow, but I highly doubt that it has any basis in reality.

[mamazee]

Originally Posted by phathui5

I don't think so. My children know that they have to obey dh and myself, but they've also been taught that they don't have to obey anyone who we haven't told them to, and that they never have to do anything that makes them uncomfortable.

As far as children being taken advantage of goes, I know from personal experience that children who don't have to listen to adults can be taken advantage of just as well as ones that think they have to listen. It's nice to think that by not teaching our kids to obey that they'll be safer somehow, but I highly doubt that it has any basis in reality.

I know that children who are not taught obedience can be molested, but I don't have to give child molesters a tool. And they do use obedience as a tool.

[Dandelionkid]

I once started reading a "pearl" website to see how crazy it was and came away with a subtle feeling that my kids SHOULD obey first time, every-time, so yes- I agree that stopping the song is a good idea. It must be a leftover remnant from our childhoods and the feeling that "we" never got away with this stuff, but then again, we were often obeying out of fear.
Impulse control only starts developing after 4 years so really need to put things out of the way if you don't want a 2 year old to get it. Otherwise you have a lot of work ahead of you distracting, re-directing etc. Would be less frustrating for all involved to just move it.

[sapphire_chan]

Originally Posted by Just1More

1.) Evaluate WHY he is doing it...
2.) Evaluate WHY I care...
3.) Try to think of a compromise...

So..if my 2.5yo ds was plugging the light in everywhere, I would ....

: This is great. Now, if only I could figure out how to stay interested in the activity as long as she does.

[Tjej]

Maybe it is the "Hi-Ho-the dairy-o" tune?

I personally do think it is important for children to learn to obey people in authority over them - not blind obedience, but obey. I think that being non-obedient may or may not be helpful in protecting a child from harm, but I also think it can cause them a lot of harm to be disobedient. For one, being non-obedient puts a child on a teacher's short list, and causes the child and teacher to have a more strained relationship. And the non-obedient child is not able to experience as many places or things as early as one who can obey and behave themselves.

I don't personally like the song - I do find it a bit creepy too.

When a child does not obey, I help them obey. I ask my DD to come and brush her teeth. If she doesn't come, I help her come to the bathroom to do it. Sometimes I carry her. Sometimes I hop her like a frog. Sometimes we walk together. But she goes there when I ask her to.

Tjej

[MtBikeLover]

Originally Posted by Just1More

I have been wandering around for 3 days trying to sing this song in my head, too. My kids looked at me funny when I burst out in Twinkle, twinkle while I was getting their plates tonight...I was trying to get the tune down. Ha! I'm with ya' pp's.

Ok...I have absolutey nothing constructive to add to this conversation except to say that this totally cracked me up. Someone was walking by my office as I sat here laughing. they probably thought I was crazy.

I too was trying to figure out how these words go with the song/ I am at work and can't sing out loud, but I have had twinkle twinkle going through my brain for the last few minutes and can not figure it out for the life of me.