Child Spacing-- when is it morally responsible NOT to conceive?

[annettemarie]

I'm Catholic and DH is a Lutheran pastor. He's very supportive of me following the Catholic church's teaching on birth control, and when we first got married, we used NFP.

Our history goes a little like this:
NFP (1994)
Oops baby, miscarriage (1998)
2 months later pregnant, baby born in 1999
Another baby born in 2001
Another baby born in 2003
Another baby born in 2007
Then, a loss this summer (end of July), got pregnant right away and another loss in mid-October.

The doctor said to try not to get pregnant for a while. He had said six months. And at the time, I was like, whatever, as far as I'm concerned I'm never having sex again.

So, we abstained completely for a cycle because I didn't want to get pregnant again right away like the last pregnancy/loss, and then I bought a basal thermometer and started charting.

I had my six-week post-D&C check up, and he said we could try again after the new year.

So now, my thermometer has gone missing because my six-year-old thought it made a groovy spaceship, my libido is back and I'm kind of tired of abstaining when I most want to get my groove on, and I don't really see what a huge difference it would make if I got pregnant in December or January.

OTOH, two back-to-back first trimesters and two back-to-back losses just about killed me.

I've always been content to sort of let God sort things out. I'm NOT Quiverfull, but it's just worked out really nicely for us to let things happen when they happen. Breastfeeding works really well for me, and I've had a little more time before my fertility returns with each kid. With my last, my period didn't come back until he was past two years old.

I've been praying and thinking and just feel like I'm not getting a clear sign. I don't know how best to show my trust in God-- by letting Him have control of if/when I get pregnant again and if/when the baby makes it, or by trusting the doctor. I just don't know what to do.

[jeliphish]

hmmmm... tough question.

My .02: A D&C is a pretty intense invasion of the body. I think it would be morally responsible NOT to conceive a child is when your body is healing from a foreign invasion into the very vessel that is life sustaining for your baby. October seems like yesterday - and if I were you, I would want to give my cycles another (at least 2) to 4 months to heal your reproductive organs. Periods are healing and will work to help your body get back in tune with itself. A libido may have nothing to do with a body's readiness to carry a baby so soon...
Perhaps it may help to look at it as NOT God vs. doctor, but rather if you aren't getting a clear message from god, (and you are used to getting that) perhaps you already have your answer based on what your dr said.

[TulsiLeaf]

Originally Posted by jeliphish

hmmmm... tough question.


Perhaps it may help to look at it as NOT God vs. doctor, but rather if you aren't getting a clear message from god, (and you are used to getting that) perhaps you already have your answer based on what your dr said.

I totally agree. I think sometimes we totally miss the signs because we are looking for them in different places. There was this story, I am probably butchering it But essentially this man is hungry and says god will provide my food. So someone comes up to him and offers him an apple and the man says "no, god will provide me food". that person walks away. someone else comes up to him a while ago and invites him to dinner. "no", says the man "i am waiting for god to feed me". Days pass and the man is hungry. He is growing weaker and someone else comes by and drops a loaf of bread and the man won't eat it because god will provide him food. Finally the man dies of hunger and when he sees God in heaven he says "God, I prayed for you to send me food, you didn't provide for me!" God looks at the man and says "did you not see the apple, get invited out to dinner and see the loaf of bread I sent to you?"

I think in this case, maybe God's message to you is coming through your doctor. Wait. Sometimes you just have to heal, to just be presents right now and get through this to welcome something else.
good luck

[lilyka]

i think it would be fine to space things a little further (go buy a new thermometer and do not let your son play with this one.) Your body needs time to heal. It sounds like you are open to another one right? So if the whole spacing thing does not work out I think you will be ok. another month is another cycle for your body to correct itself, to heal. And that is a good thing.

[xekomaya]

Ask your priest, not MDC! lol

It is permissable to follow a Dr's orders on something like this as long as its not crazy - and given the situation it sounds very reasonable. At the same time, you know your body and one extra month may not really mean anything long term. I doubt there really are studies that say some outcome improves after 6 months, but more that it's a convenient time frame to throw out there.

The question about morally RESPONSIBLE though? I wouldn't use that phrase. It is never irresponsible to conceive little Catholic babies destined to be with God for eternity

[Nazsmum]

I was thinking about your post. I had a thought about Mary and Joesph.

Matt 1:25-26 says that they waitied to have sex. But think about that for a moment. They where married and still waiting. Even for awhile after she gave birth. She was unclean. They where doing what was right before God maybe not man.

I think that our responsible is to follow the Lord where He brings us.

[nichole]

You can get a diaphragm for when you can't abstain. Get a new thermometer.

Is is morally responsible to have a little baby when you aren't at a good place to take care of it? I'm done. I am a Christian. I love my two children, but I'm at my limit and I know it.

Good luck in your decision.

[xekomaya]

Originally Posted by nichole

You can get a diaphragm for when you can't abstain. Get a new thermometer.

Is is morally responsible to have a little baby when you aren't at a good place to take care of it? I'm done. I am a Christian. I love my two children, but I'm at my limit and I know it.

Good luck in your decision.

I'm sorry you're having such a hard time. I can't speak for the OP but a diaphragm is not an acceptable option for a Catholic. I know a lot of biiig families and they all say having a big family is easier than having just a couple kids.

Catholic teaching is such that baring grave circumstances like the OP describes, we are to trust in God's providence to direct our family size. There is no magic number and done for us

[K-Mom3]

I have thought about his issue a LOT.

I have had depression for much of the last 2 years, both post partum and during pregnancy. It is a serious health issue for me and makes it so I can't take care of myself and my children very well. I decided (intellectually) that because of this health issue I shouldn't get pregnant again for a while. And then I prayed, whole heartedly and sincerely and told God my plan and asked him if that was okay. And I felt peaceful and good about it and for me, that is my answer. At some point in the future I may pray about his again, asking if God thinks it is a good time to ttc again.

If you haven't gotten a clear answer and are feeling confused, maybe you haven't asked God the right question yet.

[cappuccinosmom]

If you're not QF, and you have been given a medical reason to wait, why would you feel it is wrong?

I'm not Catholic but my folks are. I know through discussions with them, and some of the literature that they have (from CCL and other conservative Catholic orgs) that a the Catholic Church acknolwedges that there are serious situations when refraining from concieving might be the best. The emphasis is on remaining open to life, and the sacrificial nature of the way one is avoiding it (NFP), as opposed to a convenient/easy way and a selfish attitude about it.

[homewithtwinsmama]

Originally Posted by annettemarie

I've been praying and thinking and just feel like I'm not getting a clear sign. I don't know how best to show my trust in God-- by letting Him have control of if/when I get pregnant again and if/when the baby makes it, or by trusting the doctor. I just don't know what to do.

For me when I don't get a "yes" from my prayers, I find that really it is a "no" or a "not yet". Have your docs explored this miscarriage issue? I mean really explored it? Have you had a full thyroid and endocrine testing and exams? Because I would not proceed until I knew exactly why I was losing so many babies.

[dinahx]

We are a NFP family, but after my loss in January, I felt fine waiting until June. Just didn't feel emotionally ready, and didn't believe God wanted me to TTC from a place of unreadiness. Does a local church offer a NFP class? Because with the syptothermal method, very little abstinence is required.

[annettemarie]

I guess the heart of my question is, is this a grave circumstance (and yes, I know, talk to my priest). And if I don't actively try NOT to conceive, am I a sin by putting the life of an unborn baby at risk.

Sigh. Sometimes I wish this didn't have to all be on me and could just be up to God.

[expatmommy]

Originally Posted by annettemarie

I guess the heart of my question is, is this a grave circumstance (and yes, I know, talk to my priest). And if I don't actively try NOT to conceive, am I a sin by putting the life of an unborn baby at risk.

Is "grave circumstance" a Catholic term? I'm not familiar with it.

My understanding of your losses, is that there has been no clear reason given. Is that right? If this is the case, I can't see how you could be held to account for putting an unborn baby's life at risk. There is no known risk at this point, just really crummy history.

One of my issues with 'just letting go and letting God' with respect to conceiving, is that I know my body too well. I cannot just stick my head in the sand & say 'whatever happens, happens'. I think we were created with a mostly predictable cycle for a reason. I also think that there are medical experts who can give us wise counsel about what is good for our bodies and our mental health.

It is hard to trust God when it seems he has been pretty untrustworthy of late. I think that makes your situation even more complicated.

[annettemarie]

Yes, a Catholic term. The idea is that one should be open to life but can practice natural family planning if grave circumstances are present that would make conception not the best choice. For example, I have a very good friend who has five girls. Her uterus has ruptured and she has to have c-sections.

And I wasn't given a reason for any of the losses. They hinted that the second one might be due to getting pregnant again so soon, or because there was a bleed, which they saw on the ultrasound, but no one was willing to commit.

[elanorh]

I'm Catholic, we practice NFP - and I think that God has given you your answer, via your OB. Wait. Let your body heal. It just makes sense that you need to heal more before you conceive again.

I have only had one miscarriage, but I know how awful they are. I'm sorry for your losses.

I think that different people have different interpretations of "Grave reasons" in terms of family size. I honestly don't see a problem with choosing when in your cycle you will be with your husband - as long as you're not using some sort of a barrier, it's not like you're not 'open to life.' My very conservative Catholic parents planned all seven of their pregnancies around my father's work schedule - no children born during his busiest time of year. I suppose for some, that would not be a 'grave reason,' even though it was Dad's livelihood. The knowledge I have of the way my cycle works has enabled us to plan each of our pregnancies, and literally conceive immediately each time (dd1 was a one-shot wonder, because I had a terrible cold and didn't want to try again during my fertile phase). Isn't it just as presumptuous of us to know when we are fertile and decide TO conceive then, as it is to know when we are fertile and decide that there are reasons not to conceive (again, choose not to have sex)?

ETA: I have a good friend who has struggled with fertility issues and miscarriages for years. She and her husband have decided that the two children they've managed to conceive and carry to term are enough, and that it is too agonizing for them to continue to go through the losses they've suffered - nor do they want their children to have to go through more losses (they've had miscarriages into the second trimester). Mental, spiritual, physical health all need to be considered.

[Bluegoat]

Just a little note - I've been told that in more recent translations the phrase translated as "grave reasons" has been translated as "serious reasons", and that this is more accurate to the original document. Which does, I think, soften it somewhat, since "grave" sounds almost like it needs to be a matter of life and death.

FWIW, you history of miscarriages, to me, is actually not that unusual or out of the ordinary, if they were early, so I don't know that that itself would stop me from trying to concieve again. The two in a row could easily have been just chance, or due to being a little older than you were.

OTOH, I think waiting a relatively short time on the advice of your doctor sounds perfectly reasonable. It's always nice to start a pregnancy feeling really healthy, physically and mentally.

[chfriend]

AM: I have no advice just a . Caring for and educating well the ones you have here on earth and being a supportive partner and good citizen is an impressive mission as it is.

May your mission be blessed.

[lilyka]

your priest would be able to guide you better on weather or not this is a grave reason but I think if anything ever was this is. your body needs time to heal so that it can sustain and bring forth life. Both you and your baby are likely to have an easier time of it if you take a month or two to wait. How you wait is between you and your spiritual father.

[AnnieA]

I'm Catholic and I teach NFP. As previous posters have suggested, talking to your priest would be best but in my opinion, your situation does warrant avoiding pregnancy for a few cycles. You need to let your body heal, both physically and emotionally.