Help me please! Ready to give up!

[coleslaw]

I just can't take it anymore. I have two children 9yo dd and 3yo ds. They don't get along very well and I can't take the constant fighting. It's mostly the 3yo's "fault" because he is 3, but she doesn't help the situation at all. We can't get anythin done most days because by the time every calms down and I get myself together again, another fight starts. This is not how I pictured my homeschooling days at all. I find myself on verge of or full out crying at least daily. I am so ready to give up.

Except my daughter has anxiety issues and I know putting her in school will not help that. She knows girls in the public school through Girls Scouts, so she wouldn't go in blind, but she's in 4th grade, never been in a formal school (no pre-school, etc., but random classes with an instructor for an hour or two at a time, yes). Ds might do well in preschool, but I don't know. I cry at the thought of that too.

I cry having them here and cry thinking of them gone. Please help!!!

[skueppers]

If it were me, I would put the 3yo in preschool or some kind of babysitting swap situation so I could spend time focusing on the 9yo's academic needs for a certain number of hours per week. I'm sure life in general would be less frustrating if you had her core schooling "out of the way" and weren't always trying to squeeze it in between fights!

[Momma Aimee]

I agree -- maybe some option for the 3 yo so that you can have time with your DD?

ALso if she has anxiety -- is THAT am element of fighting with broter and chaos at home -- and can THAT be address? I know my 4 yo has anxiety and his ablity to get along with brother or me or play nice with daddy all go out the door when he is feeling it ...

Can DD work alone -- in her room or anyroom with the door shut for part of the time to keep bro from bothering her?

can DS watch a curious Geroge or something when you need to sit down with DD and introduce stuff?

A

[AAK]

Another one saying to find something for your 3 yr old. Mine goes to a play based preschool with light academics. She LOVES it and doesn't understand why she can't go everyday. (Currently she goes 2 x week from 9:15-11:45)

Our benefits:
1. A bit of uninterrupted time with dd (4th grade) to focus on the harder subjects or to do a science experiment that the 3 yr old can't help with
2. The 3 yr old is sooooo much happier having her "special" thing to do. She loves playing with "her" friends, etc. This reflects back home as she gets along with her sisters better too. I think the school is an outlet for her.
3. I do volunteer at the class parties and dd thinks that is so cool--it is a special time with her that doesn't involve her sisters.
4. They had the cutest Thanksgiving "show". It was only about 25 min. long and was so adorable. For us, that was a big benefit because my older kids are involved in theater and dance and we are always watching them. . . this time we all got to watch the 3 year old and she was on cloud 9.

Amy

[kathymuggle]

Preschool. I like preschool - the focus is often on play, it is only a few times a week, and it has an end date. I find it quite different from "school" and not at all incompatable with homeschooling.

a class the older can do on the computer - perhaps independantly?

If applicable: do school work with the older at night time when your partner is home. Leave the house if necessary for a library or coffeee shop -some people work better outside of the house.

Try smaller periods more often. The 3 year old might not allow for 2 hours of uninterrupted activity - but you may very well be able to have 2 or 3 periods of 20 minutes where you can focus on the elder.

I think all households have their own formula for keeping bickering at bay. Most use some of the following: alone/one on one time; outdoor play; proper food and sleeping; empathy/compassion discussions; balance of busy-ness and downtime; family meetings. Good luck!

[MamaMonica]

I'm sorry you're having a hard time. Many of us have been there. I would try a play-based preschool for the 3 year old and see how that changes the dynamic.

You matter, too and if you're miserable, then it's time to make changes.

Another option is a mother's helper. We had one or awhile. She was a homeschooled teen and came and played with the kids for a few hours twice a week.

Good luck

[jlpumkin]

Hi there! I'm over here with a 3 yo & a 7 yo. We have our good days and our fighting days =) So I can feel your pain! When you say that more often than not it's the 3 yos fault what sort of behaviors do you mean? Are you attempting to instruct and he's interrupting with random 3 yo stuff? We get that.. Or disrupting because he wants attention? Got that too.. Or just wants to play? Or truly believes he's being schooled too? Just wondering if there's a common thread? (Pardon the use of he above, mine is a he so I went with what I know )

[CariOfOz]

I was in your shoes earlier this year. I have a 7, 5, and 3yo. I was going out of my mind until I finally went preschool/day care shopping. He now goes to the same centre his older brothers went to a few years ago, for 2 days a week. He has 2 of the same carers even and seems to have a pretty good time with very few exceptions. It REALLY helped me because then I could plan to do the types of things that would usually be impossible to do with him up disrupting.

Is it that the 3yo is basically being a pain in the bum to your older child? or that he's disrupting school time? (just trying to get an idea of what kind of 'fighting' we're talking about here!)

[*Jessica*]

We used to have a big problem with fighting. This may not apply to your situation but when we cut out most of their screen time the majority of the fighting ceased. They still have the occasional sibling squabble but it's immensely better than it was before.

They were watching about 30 minutes of tv a day and a couple of videos a week, as well as playing a computer game for 30 minutes a couple of times a week. That amounted to an hour of screen time per day. We've cut tv out except for the occasional holiday special and one or two videos per week. Computer time has also been cut out, except for once or twice a week for a short educational video that pertains to what we're learning. They have at most 2 1/2 hours of screen time per week, and that's probably still too much.

Their behavior overall has improved so much (and they were not "bad" kids to begin with!) that I feel horrible for not having cut back on screen time sooner.

Last year I did put them in preschool for 6 hours per week (they were 3 and 5 at the time) so that I could have a break, but by halfway through the year when we cut out screen time I no longer needed that break. I think we could have saved ourselves a lot of money by cutting out the screen time before we tried preschool.....but I didn't have anyone offering that advice. So I'm offering it to you. Before you try other things, try cutting out screen time (tv, movies, video games), if you don't already do so, and see if their behavior improves.

If he's interrupting school time and that is causing the fighting and frustration, make sure you give him plenty of attention before you start school work with your daughter. Or find some activities that he can do and call them his school work if that seems like something he would enjoy. You obviously wouldn't make him do them, but if he starts interrupting then give him an activity to do. In our house I have to give little brother an activity similar to what big brother is doing (a math activity if big brother is doing his math work, practice writing his name or tracing letters if big brother is doing copywork, etc), but that may be because there is only a 2-year age difference.

I think that what kathymuggle said about all households having "their own formula for keeping bickering at bay" is so true. I hope you find your formula!

[coleslaw]

Thank you to everyone for your wonderful suggestions! I knew I could come here. If I asked any family members or friends, I would feel the judgement of "Just don't homeschool them anymore. It's obviously not working." So thank you!

I am going to look into preschools. Around here, we have to do it now for next fall (or within the next month or so). I'm not sure if I will use it because next Sept. is quite far away and lots of things can change.

I am also going to look into a mother's helper. I'm hoping to find a good one that isn't too expensive. Babysitting in general is quite pricey here (my current ones now charge $15/hour! and this is high school/college students), but a mother's helper might do the trick.

I have definitely considered the less screen time. I won't even admit to how much screen time my kids get. I think it has contributed to the problem somewhat, especially because it keeps them from practicing that interacting as often as they would. I've had to use it for personal reasons (I had a stillbirth the year before my youngest was born and the stress was overload for me once he got here, so I used TV/computer as a crutch to get me through it all). Now I'm backpeddling.

A lot of you asked what kind of behaviors am I seeing. My 3yo is very aggressive. When he tantrums, he throws things, hits, bites, pulls hair, etc. So I can't just let him tantrum to get through the feelings, I have to be a hawk. This definitely has caused anxiety on the daughter's part because she's scared. Tantrums can come very often. Just this week, he had a day where there were 4-5 full-blown tantrums. And anything can set him off. I could go on and on about all the various ways I've tried to deal with this, some calm, some not-so-calm and regretful. I'm looking into different ways to deal. I think some stem from feeling left out because he is too small to do everything his big sister is doing, some from wanting to do things himself, some from feeling the stress of the fmaily, from losing his nap, from trying to potty learn - a whole host of reasons for each tantrum. I just don't have the energy to deal with him blowing at any minute and protecting my daughter from flying shrapnel, spending time to school her, dealing with her anxiety, etc. It's just too much. None of us sleep very well do to frequent wake-ups with both kids (dh deals with dd, me with ds). So that's my situation.

As a result, I worry about him going to a preschool and getting in a lot of trouble. He can be very sweet and play really well with kids, if they include hima nd share with him. If they don't, all hell breaks loose, and we all know not everyone will do as he wishes,nor should they. I've had problems with him yelling and hitting babysitters, so I have many concerns.

Now that I've written a book... Thanks for "listening" and for all of your suggestions. I would love more or if you have any thoughts on my expanded discussion, I would appreciate that too.

[OTMomma]

Have you looked at their diets? My kids are both much harder to live with when they aren't eating the right foods- if someone snuck in and gave my kids fruitloops for breakfast- the rest of my day would be hell. Arificial colors, and flavors together with sugar sprinkles turns my children into little demons. And even with healthy food choice I have to make sure they are eating enough protein and not just pasta and apple sauce. Eating right helps us all fell better and get along better. I also second cutting out/down on screen time.

[jlpumkin]

I would agree with watching diet and screen time now, after all you'll have to make it until fall for a prek slot anyway right? If you can find a workable system before that, even better =) I would recommend instituting a quiet time in the afternoon for the 3 yo. Especially if he's giving up a nap, he probably still needs a little extra rest. We have quiet play/reading in our rooms. This allows me to concentrate on my oldest if need be - otherwise she has quiet reading too bc I need rest too Also if there are any special activities that you could set aside for 3 yo for school time? While your oldest is doing independent work you can "school" w/ ds. We are currently using puzzles/books/coloring/play doh. Which just made me think of water play & playdoh - both stress relieving activities for everyone ~ great for melt down times =)

[coleslaw]

I've thought of the diet thing too, so thank you for the reminder. I've been considering Feingold. We don't have much in the way of processed in the house, but it does sneak in and he eats a lot of natural no-no's in the diet.

I would love to do quiet time, but I can never get anyone to do that. My daughter never would - she was afraid of being alone in her room. My son is the same way. He's afraid of being upstairs by himself. If they are both downstairs doing quiet time, they'll fight. Any thoughts on how to make that work?

[rahrahgobg]

Do you have a YMCA that has child care? We can put our kids in child care 2.5 hours/day. There is no extra charge at my Y for child care, but some YMCA's do charge extra for child care. You could go to the Y, put your 3yo in child care and do some lessons with your 9yo. Then put your 9yo in child care and go workout.

Win/win for everyone, and you get a needed break from both. You have to stay on the Y premises, but this could be a 'cheap' option for you. Our Y membership is $77/month. I go twice a week and put them in child care for 2 hours each time. I would go more, but we are trying to sell our home and are there only during the week. Life is hectic living in a hotel. I NEED the breaks.

Good luck.

Vicki

[jlpumkin]

I'm not sure of the space available to you... but some ideas - do you have a playroom? Or another room on the main floor that would be a quiet space for one of them to go? Or you could move (quiet) school upstairs in a separate room since your son is just afraid of being upstairs alone. In my house if one child has quiet time and another doesn't then the child feels as though they are being punished. So I try to make sure everyone has some sort of quiet something... to keep it something we all look forward to doing. Sometimes depending on our day, quiet time is just reading/looking at books on separate couches in the living room. My youngest is still "learning" quiet time instead of napping. So I often present it to him as "Since you're getting bigger you have a chance to have quiet play in your room instead of napping. If you become loud or disruptive then I'll know you need to nap." (which isn't said as a punishment, I really believe being overly tired makes one uncooperative.) Of course everyone is able to quietly leave their rooms for potty breaks, drinks of water, etc. Sometimes I play a classical lullaby cd which is an hour long. When it's over they know quiet time is over. Honestly I couldn't hs w/o quiet time (and sort of admire those that can ) Hopefully even if it doesn't solve any problems, it'll give you enough time to get your own batteries recharged =)

[*Jessica*]

Originally Posted by coleslaw

Thank you to everyone for your wonderful suggestions! I knew I could come here. If I asked any family members or friends, I would feel the judgement of "Just don't homeschool them anymore. It's obviously not working." So thank you!

I am going to look into preschools. Around here, we have to do it now for next fall (or within the next month or so). I'm not sure if I will use it because next Sept. is quite far away and lots of things can change.

I am also going to look into a mother's helper. I'm hoping to find a good one that isn't too expensive. Babysitting in general is quite pricey here (my current ones now charge $15/hour! and this is high school/college students), but a mother's helper might do the trick.

I have definitely considered the less screen time. I won't even admit to how much screen time my kids get. I think it has contributed to the problem somewhat, especially because it keeps them from practicing that interacting as often as they would. I've had to use it for personal reasons (I had a stillbirth the year before my youngest was born and the stress was overload for me once he got here, so I used TV/computer as a crutch to get me through it all). Now I'm backpeddling.

A lot of you asked what kind of behaviors am I seeing. My 3yo is very aggressive. When he tantrums, he throws things, hits, bites, pulls hair, etc. So I can't just let him tantrum to get through the feelings, I have to be a hawk. This definitely has caused anxiety on the daughter's part because she's scared. Tantrums can come very often. Just this week, he had a day where there were 4-5 full-blown tantrums. And anything can set him off. I could go on and on about all the various ways I've tried to deal with this, some calm, some not-so-calm and regretful. I'm looking into different ways to deal. I think some stem from feeling left out because he is too small to do everything his big sister is doing, some from wanting to do things himself, some from feeling the stress of the fmaily, from losing his nap, from trying to potty learn - a whole host of reasons for each tantrum. I just don't have the energy to deal with him blowing at any minute and protecting my daughter from flying shrapnel, spending time to school her, dealing with her anxiety, etc. It's just too much. None of us sleep very well do to frequent wake-ups with both kids (dh deals with dd, me with ds). So that's my situation.

As a result, I worry about him going to a preschool and getting in a lot of trouble. He can be very sweet and play really well with kids, if they include hima nd share with him. If they don't, all hell breaks loose, and we all know not everyone will do as he wishes,nor should they. I've had problems with him yelling and hitting babysitters, so I have many concerns.

Now that I've written a book... Thanks for "listening" and for all of your suggestions. I would love more or if you have any thoughts on my expanded discussion, I would appreciate that too.

I'm so sorry about the loss of your baby. I don't think anyone would blame you for using screen time as a coping mechanism.

I'm far from an expert, but after reading your post I have some thoughts. I highly encourage you to spend time focusing on your son for a while. Your daughter is still young enough that letting school work slide won't make much difference. Give her workbooks and things she can do more independently for a while. Let her know that little brother is having a hard time and that he needs some special attention.

Cut out all screen time for both of them and see if you can get them to play together. If they don't do that now you may have to join in and model how for them.

Role play with him. Pretend you're him and he's another child. Let him take your toys, then throw a humongous tantrum. See how he responds. I know there is a good book out there that gives ideas on how to do it. (Uh, what is it? Anyone? Is it in Playful Parenting?) It will hopefully give him the tools to vent his anger in more appropriate ways.

I had more but I seem to have lost my train of thought.

Oh! Make quiet time a priority. But instead of having them both go off to their own beds have everyone snuggle up in your bed and read to them. Do it every day. Read a chapter book if you think he has the patience for one. There is something so exciting about enjoying a story together like that. My husband is reading the third book in a series to my 4 and 6-year-old sons right now. Tonight my 6-year-old suddenly yelled at me, "Mom, brush my teeth! I want to go to bed right now so we can hear more of the story!" If your son doesn't have the patience for chapter books yet, try to find a series of picture books with the same characters making an appearance in every book to lend the same excitement that comes from anticipating what will happen in the next chapter of a larger book.

I know when you're frustrated and near the end of your rope it can be hard to do these kinds of things. But from experience I can tell you that they really make a world of difference if you can just force yourself to do them for a while.

In the meantime.......figure out a way to get a few hours to yourself so you can recharge!

[Momma Aimee]

Originally Posted by *Jessica*

I'm so sorry about the loss of your baby. I don't think anyone would blame you for using screen time as a coping mechanism.

I'm far from an expert, but after reading your post I have some thoughts. I highly encourage you to spend time focusing on your son for a while. Your daughter is still young enough that letting school work slide won't make much difference. Give her workbooks and things she can do more independently for a while. Let her know that little brother is having a hard time and that he needs some special attention.

Cut out all screen time for both of them and see if you can get them to play together. If they don't do that now you may have to join in and model how for them.

Role play with him. Pretend you're him and he's another child. Let him take your toys, then throw a humongous tantrum. See how he responds. I know there is a good book out there that gives ideas on how to do it. (Uh, what is it? Anyone? Is it in Playful Parenting?) It will hopefully give him the tools to vent his anger in more appropriate ways.

I had more but I seem to have lost my train of thought.

Oh! Make quiet time a priority. But instead of having them both go off to their own beds have everyone snuggle up in your bed and read to them. Do it every day. Read a chapter book if you think he has the patience for one. There is something so exciting about enjoying a story together like that. My husband is reading the third book in a series to my 4 and 6-year-old sons right now. Tonight my 6-year-old suddenly yelled at me, "Mom, brush my teeth! I want to go to bed right now so we can hear more of the story!" If your son doesn't have the patience for chapter books yet, try to find a series of picture books with the same characters making an appearance in every book to lend the same excitement that comes from anticipating what will happen in the next chapter of a larger book.

I know when you're frustrated and near the end of your rope it can be hard to do these kinds of things. But from experience I can tell you that they really make a world of difference if you can just force yourself to do them for a while.

In the meantime.......figure out a way to get a few hours to yourself so you can recharge!

I have a 2yo and a 4yo and to me is sounds like your little boy neefds some help. diet? more intense one-on-one parenting? something.

I am all for quest time , we do it daily -- but my 4 yo can't handle going to his room alone -- maaaaybeeeeeeeeeeee 5 minutes so i can talk on teh phone ... maaaaybe. We all cuddle and read, or watch a movie together. We only gave up naps 2 or 3 months ago when i my 2yo stopped them .. my older boy would still nap ...

I don't think your kids are ready for quiet time alone ...

[jlpumkin]

have everyone snuggle up in your bed and read to them. Do it every day. Read a chapter book if you think he has the patience for one. There is something so exciting about enjoying a story together like that. ~ from *Jessica*

Gotta say I can't agree more... snuggling together and reading is wonderful bonding =)

[coleslaw]

As a small update, I've been doing some inital research into preschools and have discovered that they can be about $4000+/year for a 4's program!!! I'm not sure I have or want to spend that kind of money. Ugh!! I was thinking that would be a great option for us. I'm going to look more, but I certainly don't want to put him inot a cheap one and it isn't a good one that he will hate.

[caefi]

workboxes. for both children. That's my suggestion and what has made a huge difference in our house. I do not follow the "official" workbox program, but gleaned ideas from it and have adapted it to fit our house. I started with the little kids having workboxes and the big kids begged for them, too.