Tell me about not being "child centered" - Page 6

[MayBaby2007]

Ummmmmmmm..... I need some help!!!

My 2.5 yr old constantly interupts my phone calls.

I wait on her and give different food if she whines about her first CHOICE.

Ok (to heck with the bullets of examples).......I pretty much do all the examples on this thread of being child-centered.

Help me! I thought my kid was too young to enforce phone call ettiquette. Is she? What can I do when she interupts me?

If she tells me she wants an apple, then whines and says "I don't want an apple" (after I've peeled and sliced it)....do I just let her go hungry?

She despises veggies. If I serve a cassarole with veggies mixed in and she refuses to eat it for dinner.....do I let her go hungry then? (Her refusal to eat veggies makes steam come out of my ears!!!!!).

My kid is a very good kid. She's very polite in stores, says "excuse me" or "sorry" if she bumps into someone. She'll say it to me and the dog around the house as well. She always asks before she does something...and follows directions based on my answer. In general, she's a really good kid! But reading these posts, it has occurred to me that she has got me tied around her finger. I'm one of those parents who argue with the child about breakfast.....and the child wins the argument 5 times out of 10.

[Theoretica]

Haven't read all the replies but I just wanted to say there's a HUGE difference between child centered and child OBSESSED, at the expense of everyone ELSE'S sanity.

I'm child centered because I really do strive to do what is best for them whenever I can. Sometimes, what is best for them is that *I* do what is best for ME. Sometimes that means saying yes, sometimes that means saying no.

[Holiztic]

Originally Posted by MayBaby2007

Ummmmmmmm..... I need some help!!!

My 2.5 yr old constantly interupts my phone calls.

I wait on her and give different food if she whines about her first CHOICE.

Ok (to heck with the bullets of examples).......I pretty much do all the examples on this thread of being child-centered.

Help me! I thought my kid was too young to enforce phone call ettiquette. Is she? What can I do when she interupts me?

If she tells me she wants an apple, then whines and says "I don't want an apple" (after I've peeled and sliced it)....do I just let her go hungry?

She despises veggies. If I serve a cassarole with veggies mixed in and she refuses to eat it for dinner.....do I let her go hungry then? (Her refusal to eat veggies makes steam come out of my ears!!!!!).

My kid is a very good kid. She's very polite in stores, says "excuse me" or "sorry" if she bumps into someone. She'll say it to me and the dog around the house as well. She always asks before she does something...and follows directions based on my answer. In general, she's a really good kid! But reading these posts, it has occurred to me that she has got me tied around her finger. I'm one of those parents who argue with the child about breakfast.....and the child wins the argument 5 times out of 10.

You see, the thing is they really won't go hungry! At least not for long. When DS wants a snack, I say "okay, I've got almonds and do you want grapes or apple?" If he says "no, something else" I say "I have almonds, do you want grapes or apple with them?" And if this goes on for more than a minute, I say "okay, I'm going to fold the laundry." The end. Usually he says "grapes" and sometimes he just 'goes hungry'. He still ends up eating the same amount of food for the day, he's not really going hungry! Sometimes I give him the almonds and grapes and he barely touches them. He doesn't ask for something else because by now he knows there's no point, but back when he did, I said "you can have almonds and grapes now or wait for you supper." I don't think I am just "lucky" to have a 2.5 year old that eats almost anything. Last night I was exhausted and not even hungry. For DH and DS I heated some veggie burgers (they're potato pancakes really with tons of big chunks of veggies and indian spices) and an artichoke and tomato salad. Twice he got out of his seat and said he was all done. DH said (gently, no pressure) "okay, but that's it for the night, no snacks if you don't finish" and he got right back up and ate it all. He likes those foods, but probably didn't love it--would have preferred holding out for something better before bed. But he knows its not gonna happen, so he eats. If he really doesn't like something he just gets down and says again "I'm all done". The few things I know he truly doesn't like I just don't make for any of us or I make sure there's plenty of other food in the meal that he'll eat. In our house there's never an issue of forcing him to eat something he doesn't like, it just isn't necessary. I know DS' great eating habits are a result of us being really serious about never catering to him from the beginning.

[sewchris2642]

[QUOTE=North_Of_60;14775032]For me this wouldn't be about the food at all, but about making decisions, and how those decisions affect us, and the people around us. In our house, I would give her the cereal, and that's it. If she has the choice to CHOOSE what she wants, than she needs to learn to think about that decision and then be Ok with it. I understand that kids can be wishy-washy, so in our house I might give her options when choosing. But at the end of the day, I want my daughter to not only have options, to learn to pick what she wants out of those options, and then to be satisfied with what she chose.

And if she can't be satisfied with what she chose, she has to learn the skills to cope with that disappointment. That will NEVER happen if she never gets to experience what it's like to make the wrong choice, even if it's just about breakfast. Depriving her of that experience would be doing her a big disservice, in my opinion.[/QUOTE

[sewchris2642]

Originally Posted by MayBaby2007

Ummmmmmmm..... I need some help!!!

My 2.5 yr old constantly interupts my phone calls.

I wait on her and give different food if she whines about her first CHOICE.

Ok (to heck with the bullets of examples).......I pretty much do all the examples on this thread of being child-centered.

Help me! I thought my kid was too young to enforce phone call ettiquette. Is she? What can I do when she interupts me?

If she tells me she wants an apple, then whines and says "I don't want an apple" (after I've peeled and sliced it)....do I just let her go hungry?

She despises veggies. If I serve a cassarole with veggies mixed in and she refuses to eat it for dinner.....do I let her go hungry then? (Her refusal to eat veggies makes steam come out of my ears!!!!!).

My kid is a very good kid. She's very polite in stores, says "excuse me" or "sorry" if she bumps into someone. She'll say it to me and the dog around the house as well. She always asks before she does something...and follows directions based on my answer. In general, she's a really good kid! But reading these posts, it has occurred to me that she has got me tied around her finger. I'm one of those parents who argue with the child about breakfast.....and the child wins the argument 5 times out of 10.

The thing is it's not about the phone or food. It's about independence, making choices and learning to live with them. When you're on the phone, your attention isn't on her. If you think about, she probably does the same thing when you're cooking or on the computer. It's just that those activities can be interrupted or include her. She's learning about choices and their consequences. Let her pick out breakfast and lunch. At dinner, she can start serving herself the foods she wants to eat. We have the rule that they can take what they want but they have to eat what they take. Or in the case of a new food, they have to give it an honest try. When she's done, let her get down, with the warning that the next meal is breakfast. It might seem far fetched but not liking what she chose for dinner and having to go hungry until breakfast will give her the skills she needs as an adult when picking a job or a husband.

[cappuccinosmom]

If she tells me she wants an apple, then whines and says "I don't want an apple" (after I've peeled and sliced it)....do I just let her go hungry?

Well, yes. Only she won't go hungry.

My youngest did this at exactly 2.5 yo to. "I want...NOOO, I don't want..I WANT!!!!" Drove me up a wall. Even if I were inclined to cater to him, which I'm not, there would be no way possible to make him happy or content, because his "want" switched from one thing to another and back again in milliseconds.

If he says "I want an apple" and then rejects it, I just say "OK. You eat it or don't, whatever you like". I'll leave the apple on the table where he can get it, but I'm won't cajole or feed into his game. Same for a drink, etc. When we go on a walk, he's tried a few times, to do that, and I take him by the hand and we walk in whatever direction he originally wanted to go when I asked him. It's not a game we can play when we're that close to a street and cars. Most of the time, though, I don't ask him which direction he wants to go anymore.

Great advice from the other posters on the rest of the stuff. I responded to this issue mainly because I just went through it and I know how crazy-making it is!

[MayBaby2007]

[QUOTE=sewchris2642;14777152]The thing is it's not about the phone or food. It's about independence, making choices and learning to live with them. When you're on the phone, your attention isn't on her. If you think about, she probably does the same thing when you're cooking or on the computer. It's just that those activities can be interrupted or include her. She's learning about choices and their consequences. Let her pick out breakfast and lunch. At dinner, she can start serving herself the foods she wants to eat. We have the rule that they can take what they want but they have to eat what they take. Or in the case of a new food, they have to give it an honest try. When she's done, let her get down, with the warning that the next meal is breakfast. It might seem far fetched but not liking what she chose for dinner and having to go hungry until breakfast will give her the skills she needs as an adult when picking a job or a husband.[/QUOTE]


Can I really do that? That seems so wrong. She's a horrible picky eater which I hate. I want her to eat veggies and other main courses besides chicken or spaghetti. Usually when she won't eat dinner, I'll tell her she can have an apple and water only (no special treats she wants) if she doesn't eat dinner. (Honestly, okay...I usually budge and make her a pbj or something). But no food other than dinner? I've thought about trying that....but it reminds me of that scene from Mommy Dearest. I figured if I did do "no dinner, no other food until breakfast", then I would save her uneaten dinner in the fridge. If she was hungry, I would offer dinner again....until breakfast food. Again though, that reminds me of Mommy Dearest.

She used to love greenbeans (the only veggie she would eat). Now she won't try them. I made fresh corn on the cob with sweet cream butter and salt--it was like candy SOOOO good! She tasted one piece and spit it out. I've tried bribing her with candy. I have candy in a glass vase on top of the fridge. I told her, "If you eat ONE pea. Just ONE pea, you can have a piece of candy!" No deal. Her eating habits are driving me nutty. But I'm highjacking this thread. So sorry.

[Kelly1101]

To offer a bit of perspective... I was an INSANELY picky eater as a child. I still kind of am, although I've expanded a lot since then.

Both of my siblings will eat just about anything and everything. My mom treated us all the same.

So I doubt that it's parenting that makes picky eaters / adventurous eaters. I think people are just born that way.


The way my mom did, is that she knew everything that I would eat. She made sure to include things that I would eat in every meal. If I decided that I wanted to throw a fit and didn't want what I was given, too bad then, I didn't eat it. She didn't offer choices again and again.

I never "went hungry" as in starved.

I think it's a case of balance-- by all means, give the child things suited to their taste, don't insist that they eat things they hate. But you're not a waitress and they can't send it back after they have it.

The best compromise, I think, is to keep the originally offered food, in case they truly are hungry.

But if you cater to whims, it's just setting up a bad situation.

[waiflywaif]

I told her, "If you eat ONE pea. Just ONE pea, you can have a piece of candy!" No deal.

No. Just no. It's HER choice to eat peas or not, and peas have nothing to do with candy.

Keep them separate. Peas or no peas, but no candy. Unless you decide to give her candy, but that's your choice and it's not about what she eats or doesn't eat.

Making "yummy" foods contingent on eating "yucky" foods is a really, really bad idea.

[Holiztic]

I always hate to say this kind of thing in these threads, because it's basically too late for this approach, but for anyone lurking with a baby not yet on solids, I'll go ahead. I don't mean to make anyone feel bad about what they have or haven't done, I am sure there are categories like this for me (like sleep--which I did all wrong!)

I believe it is VITAL to totally shelter our babies, toddler, and preschoolers when it comes to food. We simply cannot expect a tiny child to taste modern, industrial foods that have been formulated (literally) to taste good beyond anything nature has provided, and then continue to enjoy real food. When a toddler eats candy, cookies, flavored anything, really most store-bought snack or treat food (even organic crackers!), they are going to internalize this flavor,t exture, etc. as being superior to whole foods or homemade foods. There are obviously some exceptions to this for most kids, but on whole I believe this to be a huge problem.

My DS is 2.5 and he eats sugar maybe 1-2 times a month--almost never at home. He eats fruit leather as a treat, again, never at home. We have no convenience food here--no juice except aloe vera juice which he loves , he has learned (and knows no other way) that what I home cook for a meal is all there is--short of fruit and nuts. Even if I make homemade crackers or barely sweet cookies I only let on that there is 1 serving's worth and the rest hide for late-night mommy daddy snacks or go to work with daddy.

Is this dishonest? Wrong? Mean? So sheltering that he'll go off the deep end when he discovers candy, cookies, soda, etc.? Well, if I kept this up with this level of purity until his teen years, then yes, I think so. But babies and toddlers are NOT teens. They need us to give them a framework from which they can use their independent judgment when they do get older. My DS LOVES real food and I believe I have done him this service in not letting junk food (which I consider to be most food at grocery stores!) distort his tastes.


ETA: Oh, and this obviously only works with a child that is home most of the time, and in "trusted" food places the rest of the time. If we had no choice but to have DS in care, I know this would not be so easy, and I do not pretend that it is for those of you in such a situation!

[Galatea]

Originally Posted by bluedaisy

Thanks for all the great responses!

I can clarify a little what i mean about being "child centered".

In the other culture I lived in that was NOT child centered, kids would normally amuse themselves with very few toys, not interrupt adult conversations, were not demanding or sassy, and I never saw a tantrum there (not saying there were never any tantrums, but definitely fewer than here, and a public tantrum would have been very out of place). the children were also very respectful.

I realize some of these things might be more cultural, but when I observe my extended family some of the "child centered" behavior I saw was:

- asking a 3 year old where she wanted to sit for thanksgiving, and then taking 15 minutes to try and figure out how to arrange all the kids and adults so that she could sit where she wanted.

- asking a toddler what they want for lunch instead of having them eat what everyone else is eating

- kids who pick the music every time they are in the car - so it's always children's cds playing and never adult music

- adults not being able to have any kind of meaningful conversation when the kids are awake because the kids are the center of attention and always interrupting

- when my mom comes to babysit my one year old daughter she feels like she has to play with her and entertain her constantly, and hovers so that she doesn't do things like walk with the cordless phone in case she trips and the antennae pokes her eye out

to me, this kind of behavior would encourage kids that they should always be the center of attention and always get what they want - which is not messages i want my dd to get.

i'm asking for examples because i realized my own family is so child centered and i really want to do things differently with my dd, but i'm not really sure what to do practically

ETA: I don't think the opposite of child centered is being parent centered, but maybe being family centered - where there is a balance of everyone's needs and children learn that other people's desires and opinions matter so they won't always get their way

i don't think the parent's needs should always trump those of the kids, just as the kids needs should not always trump those of the parents or siblings

I agree with everything you said here. I feel that this way of child-rearing is unlikely to end well. It has been easier for us since we have 3 kids, so doing this for each kid is impractical, but also because it does not equip children for the real world. Adults are not asked or given what they want most of the time, and to give kids the impression that everything will be to their liking does them no favors. Practically, this is what we do (and we are often told that we have such "good" kids so maybe it works):

1. Number one rule: you get what you get and you don't get upset.

2. Mom and Dad's word is law. Period.

3. When things don't go your way, you get an appropriate period of crying, and then you are done. (Ex: last night I asked them if they wanted to go to a diner or McDs. They split evenly, so I cast the deciding vote for McDs b/c I love the grilled southwest salad. The loser cried and wailed and worked himself to almost vomiting, saying he wouldn't eat anything. In this situation, my very child-centered mother would have gone on and on trying to comfort him, and the result would have been more wailing. I just said, "I understand you are disappointed. We will go to the diner next time. You have 5 minutes until we get to McDs to calm down and decide what you want to eat. If you decide not to eat, then there will be no food later, period." Result? He stopped crying and chose nuggets and everything was fine.)

4. When Mom and Dad are talking, there are no interruptions.

5. Politeness is of highest importance and there are no excuses. Ds1 got in trouble for not obeying the bus driver. He was put in time out, denied tv time, and had to write a note and apologize verbally. Once past a certain age (usually 4), there are no excuses for rudeness (no, "Oh, he's a sensitive child.")

6. Everybody works. I only pick up toys on rare occasions. Kids have chores appropriate to their ages. I also don't take any guilt trips. B/c I work at home, there are times in which it looks like I am here but I am working. They have to respect that and I am careful to show them that I like my job and am proud of contributing to the family.

7. I don't get involved in their disputes except to tell them to work it out or I will take the toy away.

8. Dh and I leave them often with grandma so we can have dates by ourselves. This is key.

9. They do not get toys whenever we are at a store, nor happy meals whenever we eat fast food. Those are treats, not expectations.

10. You eat the same food at meal time with everyone else. No one gets special food or a second meal b/c the first was not eaten. You can choose not to eat, but you will be hungry.

11. And b/c you mentioned it, we almost never listen to kids' music. We listen to what we want to listen to and they like that, too.

[Cherry Alive]

Originally Posted by waiflywaif

No. Just no. It's HER choice to eat peas or not, and peas have nothing to do with candy.

Keep them separate. Peas or no peas, but no candy. Unless you decide to give her candy, but that's your choice and it's not about what she eats or doesn't eat.

Making "yummy" foods contingent on eating "yucky" foods is a really, really bad idea.

But what about the concept of not giving children dessert unless they finish their dinner? And what if they've decided their (once loved) dinner has suddenly all become too "yucky"?

[mamazee]

We don't do dessert. If we decide to have something sweet, it has no relationship to the meal. The concept of dessert is fraught with problems.

[Cherry Alive]

Originally Posted by mamazee

We don't do dessert. If we decide to have something sweet, it has no relationship to the meal. The concept of dessert is fraught with problems.

Really? I'm very curious about this as it seems to be a big concept in a number of different cultures (at least Western ones). What exactly is wrong with dessert?

[sewchris2642]

[QUOTE=MayBaby2007;14781091]

Originally Posted by sewchris2642

The thing is it's not about the phone or food. It's about independence, making choices and learning to live with them. When you're on the phone, your attention isn't on her. If you think about, she probably does the same thing when you're cooking or on the computer. It's just that those activities can be interrupted or include her. She's learning about choices and their consequences. Let her pick out breakfast and lunch. At dinner, she can start serving herself the foods she wants to eat. We have the rule that they can take what they want but they have to eat what they take. Or in the case of a new food, they have to give it an honest try. When she's done, let her get down, with the warning that the next meal is breakfast. It might seem far fetched but not liking what she chose for dinner and having to go hungry until breakfast will give her the skills she needs as an adult when picking a job or a husband.[/QUOTE]

Can I really do that? That seems so wrong. She's a horrible picky eater which I hate. I want her to eat veggies and other main courses besides chicken or spaghetti. Usually when she won't eat dinner, I'll tell her she can have an apple and water only (no special treats she wants) if she doesn't eat dinner. (Honestly, okay...I usually budge and make her a pbj or something). But no food other than dinner? I've thought about trying that....but it reminds me of that scene from Mommy Dearest. I figured if I did do "no dinner, no other food until breakfast", then I would save her uneaten dinner in the fridge. If she was hungry, I would offer dinner again....until breakfast food. Again though, that reminds me of Mommy Dearest.

She used to love greenbeans (the only veggie she would eat). Now she won't try them. I made fresh corn on the cob with sweet cream butter and salt--it was like candy SOOOO good! She tasted one piece and spit it out. I've tried bribing her with candy. I have candy in a glass vase on top of the fridge. I told her, "If you eat ONE pea. Just ONE pea, you can have a piece of candy!" No deal. Her eating habits are driving me nutty. But I'm highjacking this thread. So sorry.

Food is one of the more obvious areas of being too child centered to the detriment of the development of the child. By focusing on her eating habits, you are giving food (and her way too much power) way more importance that it is. She won't starve between meals. Not even the hours between dinner and breakfast. She probably will wake up earlier than usual and way more hungry than usual but that's about it. If you have allowed her too much freedom and control over food in the past and now (in her experience) suddenly and arbitrarily change it, things will get worse before they get better because she will try to go back to the old, established system that she is familiar with. I wouldn't save dinner for later or for the next meal. I offer water and fruit between meals. If they don't want that, then they really aren't all that hungry. And at 2.5, kids just don't eat as much as they used to. Their food intake and tastes goes in cycles. Food they used to like, they don't like anymore and will start eating foods they previously wouldn't. The large servings sizes they used to eat is now down to mere tablespoon size. But that will change with the next growth spurt or development. Things like learning new skills or getting new teeth will throw off their eating habits. Treat food like any other preference on her part.

[cappuccinosmom]

Really? I'm very curious about this as it seems to be a big concept in a number of different cultures (at least Western ones). What exactly is wrong with dessert?

I grew up with dessert every night, and promises of ice cream if I ate my supper, etc.

Dh and I decided that we do not want to use sweets as a reward, nor do we want "dessert" to be an expectation or entitlement. We want to be able to eat a healthy dinner without "needing" sweets afterwards. We have something special after dinner once in a while, but it is occasional rather than regular.

[waiflywaif]

But what about the concept of not giving children dessert unless they finish their dinner? And what if they've decided their (once loved) dinner has suddenly all become too "yucky"?

Because you're setting up a bizarre food dynamic when you do this. Make dessert healthy enough or small enough that it doesn't matter. One small cookie, three jellybeans, fruit, frozen yogurt, whatever. Talk about how your body needs different kinds of foods to grow. And don't sweat amounts of dinner.

If you say "you have to eat your dinner to get dessert," aren't YOU implicitly saying, "Dinner is yucky, dessert is yummy"?

[mamazee]

Originally Posted by Cherry Alive

Really? I'm very curious about this as it seems to be a big concept in a number of different cultures (at least Western ones). What exactly is wrong with dessert?

You said it perfectly:

But what about the concept of not giving children dessert unless they finish their dinner? And what if they've decided their (once loved) dinner has suddenly all become too "yucky"?

I have never IRL seen or heard of a situation where families regularly had dessert where it didn't become a bribe to eat other food.

[paxye]

I didn't have dessert growing up... we ate sweets when we had them but they were not there as a reward for finishing a meal or an everyday thing.

I love to bake and I love Ice cream, so it it not like we avoid sweets... but we don't do "dessert"... most often we have something sweet mid afternoon, when the cookies come out of the oven or we want a little snack...

Sometimes we have something in the evening, but it isn't an expectation so the kids eat what they have without thinking about what may come after... sweets after supper are often just a good surprise for them...

[lovebug]

what a great thread to learn from!