Tell me about not being "child centered" - Page 8

[zippy_francis]

Originally Posted by mommy777

I am way to child centered. My children run over top of me.

So just out of curiosity how do you think your kids run over you? Just wondering your thoughts of what you might think led that to happen. I am enjoying this post and it is always good to hear things that people think help kids and what they think hurts kids. In the sense that they can over run you or become 'the one who runs things'.

In my life I see many scenarios where for me personally the kids 'run the show'. Mom buys them what they want and is their 'buddy' instead of being their parent. Let them do what they want, have no rules, structure or morals. So now they are disrespectful, materialistic, rude and truthfully dont care whom they offend or hurt because 'it is all about them'. It is quite frightening to me.

[cdmommie]

Originally Posted by zippy_francis

So now they are disrespectful, materialistic, rude and truthfully dont care whom they offend or hurt because 'it is all about them'. It is quite frightening to me.

Hi Jenn

It is frightening because the kids that continually get what they want and run the show do not end up as responsible adults. They just cannot handle the real world because they never learned basic respect and responsibility as children. And truthfully, it's not that they don't care who they hurt, it is just they they don't even realize that they are hurting anyone because they are sooo focused on themselves.

My sister was the ruler of our family growing up and now she and her baby are living with my mom leaching off of her and expecting my mother to not only pay for EVERYTHING but also care for the baby. She has always been the center and will continue to be until my mother steps up and stops being her "friend" and starts being her mother.
My sister continually hurts the people she loves too, not on purpose, but because she is just so self-centered.

[VisionaryMom]

Originally Posted by peaceful_mama

DH is from Sudan and we interact a lot with other Sudanese families. Their families/children are much like the OP mentioned, the kids amuse themselves in another room. They don't interrupt adult conversations.

This drives me nuts with some of my friends. Their children interrupt constantly when adults are talking. It isn't even about age for me. It's simply rude to cut into someone else mid-sentence and start sharing your own story. My son in particular (DD is a bit young for much conversation) is a part of our conversations, but I have no problem saying, "let me finish what I was saying" before turning to him. It's the same thing I'd do to an adult. We actually had a friend's child over last week. DH and I were talking, and he said, "hey, you 2 stop talking. I want something." I just turned around and said, "we're having a conversation. Hold on a second." I was floored, but I've seen the same with his own parents. They stop in the middle of everything for whatever he wants. A lot of our friends do that, and I find it really problematic.

As for other things, I know we probably could be better. I'm struggling right now with thinking that, like you, maybe we've been too child-centered on some things. In particular the kids are allowed to choose where they sleep (our room or theirs) and alternate a good bit. It's starting to become a problem for DH (he was never 100% on-board with co-sleeping from the beginning), and I am struggling with how to change the way we do things to make everyone comfortable/secure/happy.

I had an abusive childhood. It was horribly traumatic and covered the gamut as far as types of abuse. Although I'd dealt with a good bit of the abuse-related issues before kids, I wasn't prepared for how much I didn't know what a good parent *looks* like and also how much I'd want to shield my children from every hurt. I felt so alone and vulnerable as a child from the earliest I can remember, and the fear of my children ever feeling that was has become paralyzing. At the same time, I know it's not a good thing for them never to face disappointment, and it is tough to know where to draw that line.

[EnviroBecca]

About food: In my family, we all have fast and sensitive metabolisms. While it is true that we will not die of starvation if allowed no food for 12 hours, the low blood sugar makes us feel panicked and furious. While it is true that eating the "wrong" food when we have strong feelings about what is the "right" food will not kill us, it can cause us a day or so of headache, acid stomach, constipation, or other problems. Everything goes more smoothly for ALL of us if ALL of us are able to eat when we're hungry and fulfill any strong food cravings.

We have tried being the strong parents who won't let their child "control" them by letting him have a different food or an unscheduled meal, and we have found that we cannot do it. It's not just because his behavior is so horrible as a result. It's because of empathy: "How would I feel if I couldn't make oatmeal myself and I was looking at the oatmeal up there and being told that if I won't eat chili I can't have anything, when I KNOW that my body needs oatmeal now and beans would be VERY BAD for me?" And it's because we want our child to be aware of his body's needs and make intelligent choices about foods, instead of being like most Americans.

That said, when we have cooked a full meal for the family (that is, we're not having leftovers or breakfast) and it's ready to eat, EnviroDaddy and I sit down and eat, and our response to requests for something different is, "This is ready now, and we are eating. If you won't eat this, you'll have to wait until one of us is available to make oatmeal." And we won't make him a separate food that requires elaborate preparation, only things like leftovers, sandwich, fruit, yogurt, cereal, etc.

We had an interesting time on Saturday when EnviroKid woke from a late nap just as I was about to start dinner. I told him we were going to make beans and guacamole, a meal he normally loves to eat and loves to help make, but he got very anxious: "I can't, I can't eat that, it's too--watery? spicy? I don't know how to say it, but I just can't eat that; it will make my tummy hurt." I said that was fine, but the avocados were perfect and this was what I was making and he could have a sandwich. "But no! If you guys are eating that, I'm going to eat it. Because I like it. Except today I should NOT eat it. But if I see you eating it, I will have to eat it." We talked about how sometimes you have to be around other people who are eating things you can't eat, and we know he can cope with that because he's routinely not allowed to eat the meat at school. (But I was thinking, sometimes you HAVE to be in that situation, but sometimes you're at home with your loved ones who could wait one day for guacamole out of consideration for you!) He said, "If we make Honey Baked Lentils and sweet potatoes and put it all in the oven, then we can play Parcheesi while it's baking, and in one hour we will have a nice dinner we all can eat." Hard to argue with that! We had all the ingredients on hand, it would be easier than making the other meal plus something for him, and I could still make the beans and guac the next day. So we did that, and it worked out fine. Now, is that child-centered, or is that being flexible in order to meet the needs of all family members?

About interrupting: It takes years for kids to learn etiquette, but it's never too early to start! We say, "You're interrupting. Please let me finish." and insist on it, but then we give him an opportunity to speak ASAP so it's clear that waiting pays off and he WILL get his turn. (It took me a while to realize how important that is. I was trying to finish the whole conversation with another adult before giving him a turn. That's too frustrating for a young child. The only kids I've known who've accepted it are those who have a very compliant, patient temperament and those who are spanked every time they interrupt.)

To make that work, it's crucial that his dad and I respond appropriately when he points out to us that we've interrupted him! We actually do it WAY too often! Now that he's calling us on it, we're realizing that we had not been giving him the conversational respect we expect from him. Now we are using these opportunities to model the way we want him to respond when we tell him he's interrupting: "Oh! I'm sorry. Go ahead."

[Mama_Meme]

wow! what a thread!

About food:
We allow some choice for breakfast and it usually ends up being eggs. If I don't feel like eggs, I eat something different. that's OK with me. For lunch and dinner there is no negotiations, and she never tries. if she doesn't want something, she can refuse it and when's she's hungry later, she can always come back to it. If she refuses then, we won't send her to bed hungry, but will find something easy to give her so she sleeps. It rarely comes to this.
As far as dessert/snacks. We have a rule in our house: growing foods come before snack foods. if she's eaten enough growing foods in the day, then sometime (rarely near meals) she can have a "snack food" which is usually a couple tablespoons of organic juice, or a little honey, or some popcorn/molasses licorice treats. She gets no sugar, and never has. she knows that sugar is for adults, because adults are better able to deal with sugar. because she's never tried it, it's never been an issue. We eat little sugar anyways, so it rarely comes up.

About interupting:
I could work on this a lot. I am used to allowing her to interrupt and now am working at stopping that. i just got so excited that she actually started speaking that I forgot the basics of communication.

about necessary unpleasantness:
I remember one of the things that struck me in the continuum concept was that they didn't have a different word for work and play in their tribe. IN our culture "work" is bad and "play" is good. We try not to differentiate in our house, or place judgement on tasks. Scrubbing the toilet seems just as much "fun" to DD as shoveling the driveway, playing with toys or reading a book. they are all things that happen in the day, some more than others. I sometimes think because of this, my DD helps with everything, sometimes more than I even want (she'd vacuum for an hour if I let her, and washes dishes three times over!).
She also knows that she doesn't always get what she wants, when she wants it. I just try to be assertive and let her know what the option is ("no walk mommy, me up!" and I respond "you are walking, let's go!). sometimes this results in a little scream, and if it does, it doesn't change my decision. I rarely change my mind because of a screaming fit. But of course, there are exceptions.

I think that one of the reasons "not being child centred" works so well in the tribe from the continuum concept is because they are a TRIBE. there are always many adults and children of many ages about. There are many people for a child to learn from, many children that will take other children under their wing. It is hard to maintain non-child centredness while living isolated in a little box, with nothing but your nuclear family. I think that the move away from tribal living (aka, how humans evolved for a million years) is a big issue in our society. Intergenerational homes are way more like tribes, and hence have children who are better able to engage in an appropriate manner - so I think anyways.

I WHOLEY feel that

[Holiztic]

Originally Posted by Mama_Meme

I think that one of the reasons "not being child centred" works so well in the tribe from the continuum concept is because they are a TRIBE. there are always many adults and children of many ages about. There are many people for a child to learn from, many children that will take other children under their wing. It is hard to maintain non-child centredness while living isolated in a little box, with nothing but your nuclear family. I think that the move away from tribal living (aka, how humans evolved for a million years) is a big issue in our society. Intergenerational homes are way more like tribes, and hence have children who are better able to engage in an appropriate manner - so I think anyways.

I WHOLEY feel that

This has been just about the only thing on my mind all week! It is eating me up! DH is away on his third business trip of DS' life (he's 2.5) but the first one that DS and I have stayed home. So DS has been sick the whole week and we have stayed home so as not to get others sick for Christmas. The whole week has been DS, me, the cat. Period. DS is screen-free, so not even the artificial community of TV/videos. DS has become a fussy, clingy, demanding mess. Some of this is being sick, some of it is missing Daddy, but a lot of it is being so isolated. It made me really see (though I already thought about this) how really unnaturally isolated our post-modern lives have become. With other kids around (of all different ages) DS would just mix in and become a part of the whole. With other adults around he'd have more expectations put on him (or rather expectations from more people), and I believe children, for the most part, live up to expectations (well, expectations that are a given, just part of the lifestyle/family/tribe).

So if my DS is not getting what he needs (evolutionarily speaking) in terms of community, what do I do? DH says more play dates, and I say that's not even close to the same thing. Playdates are a break from our life, not a natural part of it--meaning we drive somewhere, have greetings, feel like guests, mommies sit and talk while kids play, then we intervene when there are problems, and there are two age groups usually--30s and under 6. It feels nothing like holidays with the extended family when DS disappears with the various-aged kids (4-15) and the adults cook, talk, etc. Living with extended family is not a reasonable option for us. I've even considered TV (and we're really anti-TV for littles) for something even artificially like community, but that's even worse than playdates in terms of approximating community/tribe. So do I start "workdates" where we all get together to clean each others' houses together and cook a weeks' meals, alternating houses, AND do it several times a week!?!?! Is anyone really going to go for that? And are there going to be kids of all ages and grandparents? Not likely.

I see no answer short of leaving it all behind and finding a commune/intentional community/tribe, which DH would never go for. Having a lot of kids would do something, but its still not multi-generational with non-nuclear family, AND it only helps once you're on kid # 4 or so (I would venture), AND personally a large family is just not in the cards for me.

So don't you all think that while CC ideas are great and we should try to fit them to our modern lives as best we can, that perhaps its like trying to sell new siding to a homeless person? Was that analogy clear? If not, I mean that we take away the framework for CC (tribal/communal living) and then try to add all the individual elements of such a lifestyle to a post-modern isolated life? Should we be adapting CC to this lifestyle? Should I play with my son more than I have been (trying to be so CC) because if not me, who?

I'm going mad with these thoughts!

Anyone? Perspective, please

[berry987]

Great thread!

I do not think we are too child-centered...and we often stand out as the strict parents because of it.

I think it is incredibly important to teach kids that they are not the center of the world, that their needs sometimes need to wait, that they need to share, cooperate, be good citizens, etc. Even if it seems harsh at times, once they are adults, they will need to have those skills to be contributing members of society.

Our kids are very loved and smile and laugh all the time. In fact, we've had so many people comment that our kids just seem happy. I think it's because they know the rules, know "their place" (as awful as that sounds....it's not like their place is in the gutter!) and tend to go with the flow.

We give them a lot of love, a lot of attention. But when we finish dinner and they are running around, asking to sit in our laps, eat off our plates, etc. we firmly say "No, this is Mommy and Daddy's time to talk. You go play by yourselves." We demand adult time, space to talk with each other, time alone. I think those boundaries make kids feel safe...and loved.

I have a friend who gets down on one knee to talk to her son (4 yo) every time he asks a question or has a need. Even if we are in the middle of a conversation. And I've noticed her son is rather rude and demanding (he is buddies with my 4 yo son). When he is at our house, he thinks he can yell "I want juice!!!" and I will oblige.

[madskye]

Originally Posted by Holiztic

...
I see no answer short of leaving it all behind and finding a commune/intentional community/tribe, which DH would never go for. Having a lot of kids would do something, but its still not multi-generational with non-nuclear family, AND it only helps once you're on kid # 4 or so (I would venture), AND personally a large family is just not in the cards for me.

...

I'm going mad with these thoughts!

Anyone? Perspective, please

Honestly--you are going to want to stick a fork in my eye, but what you need is just ONE REAL FRIEND. One friend with like values whom you trust enough to just hang out with and spend time together, and maybe sometimes leave your own child with, and they leave theirs with you some times...where you can all learn to "socialize" and get along and teach each other...we became close with neighbors across the way a few years ago and it has change my life and given me that village that you're talking about. Friends that are close enough that you don't have to call before you go over their house, kwim?

I know it's hard to make that one friend, but don't give up trying.

[*bejeweled*]

[Aeress]

I think we are child centered when the kids are younger, and move towards being family centered as we move out of the toddler years. We have an 8 yr old, 5, yr old and 2 yr old and I see us as more family oriented. We try to meet the individuals needs and the needs of the family- the adults and children.
I would say we are child lead in some ways- we homeschool and the children plan most of their own day/learning but not to exclusion of my needs or their sibs.