Tell me about not being "child centered" - Page 3

[spottiew]

Originally Posted by Holiztic

We are working through this everyday!

I think it was a lot easier to be NOT child-centered when most people lived in multi-family homes (Grandparents, aunts, uncles, etc) AND when there was house-work going on all day (cooking, cleaning, mending, wood-working, farming/gardening, etc).

I notice when I am my most busy with housework, my DS is best at entertaining himself and not demanding this and that. But when I am tired or sick (like now) and need to rest, he becomes very whiny and demanding. I imagine in a multi-generational house even when some were sick others were still busy and the kids didn't feel the "change" in energy so much.

see, im always stumped by the idea of just including my child in my 'daily routine'.. i don't HAVE a day of stuff to do at home EVERY day! so i can't imagine NOT doing some things for him- walk, park, etc. usually, if i take care of him first, he will settle down and let me have time. if i try to be first, he wll be upset until he gets the time that he needs. i really do see it as his NEED. he doesn't get what he needs (acitvity, attention) if he just lets me run the show, he has to be involved too. i guess some people think that can go too far, so it's all about balance.

[Litcrit]

Originally Posted by paxye

I seem to have a different view of it too...

For me "Child Centered" is about the family working around the child instead of working as a whole. Parents that spend their day playing on the floor and neglecting themselves, bringing their kids to swim class and soccer and ballet and gym and always needing to entertain the kids.... It is when kids are not able to entertain themselves because they are have never needed to. It is having nap times and quiet times and play dates and bedtimes and separating the children from the parents and family unit.

I agree with everything you said.

In my view, the ideal is to have parents as guides working together towards the good of the family (going shopping, preparing lunch, cleaning, etc.) and kids getting included and helping out as much as possible - for them, it's fun. Kids following what adults do and find meaningful (including me reading and writing) instead of the other way around - parents constantly leading games and activities for kids and keeping them entertained while they quickly get something done.

[flapjack]

I'm shocked by this thread because society as a whole is (or can be) so actively hostile towards children. The norm in most families is NOT to have a parent at home with the child every day, and when it is, there's sacrifices involved. Most families lives consist, still, of one or more parental jobs to pay the bills and finding someone to nurture the children in their absence, with a varying degree of formal experience, supervision and qualification. Our employers have a range of attitudes towards offering the flexibility needed to deal with family life, some STILL (despite everything) expecting their employees to do unpaid overtime and working 60-70 hours a week. We send them to school, which is chronically underfunded, to libraries to support their education which are frequently underfunded, and community facilities struggling to cope. We keep them in for fear of harm from traffic and strangers, and then when our children are old enough to leave the house by themselves they're treated with fear and suspicion by the other adults around them and judged harshly, because everyone knows that teenagers are criminals waiting to happen. Society is polarised into Disney crap and sophisticated adult life, especially for those on smaller incomes (look at the debate about children in restaurants), and now on top of all that parents get criticised for focussing time and attention on their children in their own homes? : It's ridiculous. Not enough time is spent moulding our society to benefit ALL members of it, including children and the elderly, and the world would be a better place if it was.

[Hoopin' Mama]

As a culture, no I don't think we are too child centered. There is a great Barbara Kingsolver essay about that, but I can't remember the name of it.

The situations the OP described, though, are too child-centered, but I think those are the exception, not the rule.

[Hoopin' Mama]

Originally Posted by flapjack

I'm shocked by this thread because society as a whole is (or can be) so actively hostile towards children. The norm in most families is NOT to have a parent at home with the child every day, and when it is, there's sacrifices involved. Most families lives consist, still, of one or more parental jobs to pay the bills and finding someone to nurture the children in their absence, with a varying degree of formal experience, supervision and qualification. Our employers have a range of attitudes towards offering the flexibility needed to deal with family life, some STILL (despite everything) expecting their employees to do unpaid overtime and working 60-70 hours a week. We send them to school, which is chronically underfunded, to libraries to support their education which are frequently underfunded, and community facilities struggling to cope. We keep them in for fear of harm from traffic and strangers, and then when our children are old enough to leave the house by themselves they're treated with fear and suspicion by the other adults around them and judged harshly, because everyone knows that teenagers are criminals waiting to happen. Society is polarised into Disney crap and sophisticated adult life, especially for those on smaller incomes (look at the debate about children in restaurants), and now on top of all that parents get criticised for focussing time and attention on their children in their own homes? : It's ridiculous. Not enough time is spent moulding our society to benefit ALL members of it, including children and the elderly, and the world would be a better place if it was.

Exactly. The essay I read, long before I became a parent, dealth with this. Basically, she talked about how different her young child was treated while living in another country. People didn't care if there was a child at a restaurant at 10pm. And how many countries have better policies in place to support raising children.

I believe that was the essay that ended with one of my fave quotes: Be careful what you give children, someday you are going to get it back.

[mamazee]

There's an age where it just seems pointless to bring kids to restaurants. Like 18 months to 2-1/2 years or so. They just want to run around, and they see food all over and don't understand that they have to wait for theirs. I find it too stressful and would rather have take-out.

[Kelly1101]

I don't think it's so much a case of not focusing on your children, as it is about not giving them any guidance/discipline and letting them control the entire family without regard to other family members.

And no, I don't think it's an "epidemic" or anything like that, but I DO know people like that.

However, I don't think it quite counts with very young children-- an infant kind of NEEDS for things to be centered around her for a while, because she is too young to learn manners. I mean, obviously if your baby is sleeping, you're not going to wake her up to go to the store, you wait until she's up and THEN go to the store.

[The4OfUs]

Originally Posted by loraxc

I have two kids. One of them (she has always been quirky) did not pick up social graces till at least 4 1/2 (and even now she is shaky) and had to be reminded and reminded over and over again. The other is not even 2 and has picked up all of your examples effortlessly.

Kids vary. Just reminding folks that a child who doesn't immediately pipe up with "thank you" does not have good manners modeled at home.

Yep - DS1, picked all that up by 2 with modeling. DD is 3-1/2 and still needs reminded at least 50% of the time, even though it's modeled the same way for her as it was for him.

Originally Posted by paxye

What I meant is that some parents put their whole life on hold because of nap-time, or bedtime etc... they can't go out, they can't make plans at a certain hour, they can't have the phone ring, they can't do things around the house etc...

Life stops because of a sleep schedule...

I have to disagree with this, in and of itself, being a negative thing. Depending on the child, sometimes they don't just adapt and sleep wherever, and it's nothing the parent did or didn't do. It's just the way they are, and the kindest thing for everyone involved (including the people out in public who won't have to deal with a sleep deprived, melting down toddler or preschooler) was to be home for naptime and bedtime, and make sure it happened every time. Sure it was a drag for a while, but naps last what, a few years? Seems like a small price to pay for an overall improved quality of life. If you have a kid who can drop off and sleep wherever they are, great, have at it and go out as much as you want...but if you have a kid who needs a specific, familiar environment to get the sleep their body *needs*, I don't find that to be any more "child centered" (in a negative way) than feeding them when they're hungry.

Originally Posted by flapjack

I'm shocked by this thread because society as a whole is (or can be) so actively hostile towards children. The norm in most families is NOT to have a parent at home with the child every day, and when it is, there's sacrifices involved. Most families lives consist, still, of one or more parental jobs to pay the bills and finding someone to nurture the children in their absence, with a varying degree of formal experience, supervision and qualification. Our employers have a range of attitudes towards offering the flexibility needed to deal with family life, some STILL (despite everything) expecting their employees to do unpaid overtime and working 60-70 hours a week. We send them to school, which is chronically underfunded, to libraries to support their education which are frequently underfunded, and community facilities struggling to cope. We keep them in for fear of harm from traffic and strangers, and then when our children are old enough to leave the house by themselves they're treated with fear and suspicion by the other adults around them and judged harshly, because everyone knows that teenagers are criminals waiting to happen. Society is polarised into Disney crap and sophisticated adult life, especially for those on smaller incomes (look at the debate about children in restaurants), and now on top of all that parents get criticised for focussing time and attention on their children in their own homes? : It's ridiculous. Not enough time is spent moulding our society to benefit ALL members of it, including children and the elderly, and the world would be a better place if it was.

I have to kind of agree with this. There is a "kid world" (movies, music, food, activities), and an "adult world", which occasionally come together on "family game night" - instead of there being a *family world* with offshoots of interest designed for kids and adults based on their developmental stages. This is not to say that I don't believe that both kids and adults shouldn't have things that they just do on their own, because I think they should - I just don't think that there should be so much of a divide between the two worlds.



I think one place where our society misses the mark is in developmental appropriateness and expectations in the first couple years of life - but then, it seems there is a bizarre backwards swing and expectations after preschool drop. Mainstream society goes from expecting infants to be "independent" and "self soothe" to expecting young toddlers to control their impulses, to expecting (or at least applaud the pushing towards) preschoolers to read and spell....and yet, I often see very little in the way of expectations (at least in personal responsibility) of children from 5-10 yrs old, in the way of helping around the house, being responsible for their actions, and gaining independence outside of the home. It seems like mainstream society pushes away babies when they need closeness most, and then freaks out when those babies do the expected pulling away after being pushed for years, and tries to pull them back in, instead of nuturing them when they're tiny and letting them spread their wings as they get older. I see a lot of making excuses for why kids act in negative ways, but not a lot of taking responsibility for it (by the parents or kid themselves) or doing anything about it (like getting to the core reasons). I'm not suggesting harsh punishments, or for kids acting like robots or being seen and not heard, I'm just for people admitting when they did something they shouldn't have, and trying to make amends instead of blaming something or someone else.


Another observation of an (IMO) negative aspect of "child centered" society is the 'preshus angel snowflake' syndrome. There is a significant portion of the population that believes that everything their child does is precious and precocious and deserving of attention and praise, and that striving to set yourself apart as the best at something/everything is a goal. It's a sense of entitlement that seems to be increasing, and it bugs the crap out of me. That's the part of child centered society that bothers me - pushing, driving, focusing so much on kids "doing something" that entire industries are built out of it, be it athletic, artistic, or academic. Traveling sports teams for young children, toddler beauty pageants, small kids training for dance competition groups, "your baby can read" - it's insanity IMO...Doing classes because they are a fun way to get out during the day, and your kid enjoys them, that's great - doing classes to get your kid ready for the next step in being the awesomest X ever? Meh. I think THAT kind of child centeredness can be problematic. There's nothing wrong with striving and wanting to achieve YOUR personal best, and doing activities that you enjoy - that's an admirable goal and will lead to a lot of long term life satisfaction, IMO...but always wanting to be THE best, well, that's a setup for disappointment for the actual, real world that most of us live in IMO (reality show dance/singing auditions, anyone?). I don't think people should be complacent, or settle, but the focus on everything being super special and awesome is just a little wearing on me sometimes. I don't remember where I heard it originally, but I love the saying: Sometimes "good enough" is good enough.

So those are some negative "child centered" aspects of society I see. I'd love to see society become more *people* centered, and less stuff centered....I think a lot of the adult/child dichotomy would go away if that started to happen.

I don't yearn for the good old days because they really weren't so good in many ways....but we seem to have dropped some pretty good things about those days while moving forward in other important
ways.

[Straggletag]

Originally Posted by flapjack

I'm shocked by this thread because society as a whole is (or can be) so actively hostile towards children.

Agreed again, actually. Society is hostile to children, but even in its hostility towards them, it's a bit obsessed with childhood. EVERYONE has an opinion about every nuance of childrearing, and they all seem to think the world is ending if it isn't made global policy. That seems child centered, or at least mother centered, just not in a positive fashion.

[bluedaisy]

OP here...this is a really interesting discussion! I want to clarify a few things:

When I talked about not being able to have a meaningful discussion, I did NOT mean to be able to talk without interruption. Of course kids are going to interrupt.

I've had meaningful discussions with kids around, both in the US and in other cultures. In my family, all conversation is focused on the children - what new things they are doing, etc or the time is spent cooing and interacting with the children instead of the adults.

As for the food issue, we usually cook a hot lunch - I expect my dd to eat what we are eating. I don't cook a separate meal for my DH just because he would prefer something else. If my dd really hated something, I would give her something else.

As a parent, it's my job to make sure my dd is getting good nutrition. a toddler knows nothing about nutrition. this toddler in my extended family always asks for hot dogs. so he has hot dogs almost every day. that's just not healthy.

I don't think child centered is the right phrase to use for what i am trying to get at

i think it's more of the pseudo - kids world that a pp described

for example, with the food issue, why it is assumed that kids can't eat "adult foods" and have to be given unhealthy "kid" foods like hot dogs, chicken nuggest, mac n cheese, etc. my dd's favorite foods are beans and hummus - not something you would find on a kids menu but she loves them. my sister never thought to offer her kids beans but they tried them once and they both loved them

with music, my dh and i love gospel music - nothing there that is inappropriate for children. why can't she learn to enjoy "adult" gospel music? Why does she need a children's CD of the exact same songs being sung by children?

By not being child centered I do NOT mean ignoring or neglecting kids - I agree there is too much of this in the US and I fully believe in AP and being WITH your kids, etc.

I guess it's more of the indulgent child pseudo culture which is driven by consumerism - there's a big market out there to create a "kid's world" instead of meaningfully incorporating kids into the real world.

And this is what I mean by not being child centered - allowing your child to interact in the real world - to take their needs and desires seriously but to teach them from a young age that they can't always get what they want. My child might WANT to eat ice cream for every meal, but my job as a parent is to make sure she is eating properly which means I cannot satisfy her every desire. My child might WANT my undivided attention 24/7 but there are other things I need to do and other important relationships in my life so while I will give her undivided attention every day, she is going to have to learn that I can't do that 24/7. And I think it's important for her to be there WITH me while i cook dinner, do laundry, go shopping, talk to my DH or visit with friends - so she can observe how to interact in the real world - she just won't be the center of attention, kwim?

Another observation of an (IMO) negative aspect of "child centered" society is the 'preshus angel snowflake' syndrome. There is a significant portion of the population that believes that everything their child does is precious and precocious and deserving of attention and praise, and that striving to set yourself apart as the best at something/everything is a goal. It's a sense of entitlement that seems to be increasing, and it bugs the crap out of me. That's the part of child centered society that bothers me - pushing, driving, focusing so much on kids "doing something" that entire industries are built out of it, be it athletic, artistic, or academic. Traveling sports teams for young children, toddler beauty pageants, small kids training for dance competition groups, "your baby can read" - it's insanity IMO...Doing classes because they are a fun way to get out during the day, and your kid enjoys them, that's great - doing classes to get your kid ready for the next step in being the awesomest X ever? Meh. I think THAT kind of child centeredness can be problematic.

This is also the kind of child centeredness I was trying to get at with the OP

[NellieKatz]

Woo hoo, Flapjack, that NEEDED to be said! :-)

[cappuccinosmom]

Agreed again, actually. Society is hostile to children, but even in its hostility towards them, it's a bit obsessed with childhood. EVERYONE has an opinion about every nuance of childrearing, and they all seem to think the world is ending if it isn't made global policy. That seems child centered, or at least mother centered, just not in a positive fashion.

I agree.

Maybe it's a conundrum. Society being hostile to children and so many parents being obsessed with the minutia of childhood.

I am definitely one who bemoans the anti-child attitudes in society as a whole. OTOH, in individual parents, and in parent-culture, I do see some problems with being wholly child-centered. Not child-centered as in taking care to meet a child's needs, but child-centered as in the child comes first, gets what they want, gets the newest and the best, must be entertained, every time, all the time.

Our children's welfare is central to how we live our lives and the decisions we make. But we want to take the long view, and not focus on filling moment-to-moment desires or worrying about keeping them feeling 100% emotionally happy every second of the day. That is why our family doesn't function as "child centered" with the children being the center of the family universe.

[North_Of_60]

Originally Posted by flapjack

I'm shocked by this thread because society as a whole is (or can be) so actively hostile towards children. The norm in most families is NOT to have a parent at home with the child every day, and when it is, there's sacrifices involved. Most families lives consist, still, of one or more parental jobs to pay the bills and finding someone to nurture the children in their absence, with a varying degree of formal experience, supervision and qualification. Our employers have a range of attitudes towards offering the flexibility needed to deal with family life, some STILL (despite everything) expecting their employees to do unpaid overtime and working 60-70 hours a week. We send them to school, which is chronically underfunded, to libraries to support their education which are frequently underfunded, and community facilities struggling to cope. We keep them in for fear of harm from traffic and strangers, and then when our children are old enough to leave the house by themselves they're treated with fear and suspicion by the other adults around them and judged harshly, because everyone knows that teenagers are criminals waiting to happen. Society is polarised into Disney crap and sophisticated adult life, especially for those on smaller incomes (look at the debate about children in restaurants), and now on top of all that parents get criticised for focussing time and attention on their children in their own homes? : It's ridiculous. Not enough time is spent moulding our society to benefit ALL members of it, including children and the elderly, and the world would be a better place if it was.

I agree with this. So much of our society is inhospitable toward kids and being a parent. I remember when a local cafe with an indoor playground opened locally and someone from my LLL meeting said it was so nice that they could go get a coffee with their kids and breastfeed the baby at the same time and not feel bad about it. What does that say for us when a "special" facility has to open up just so a mother with kids can go out and get a coffee and feel comfortable doing so?

However ( ), I think the areas where people have latched onto childhood, for instance with the Disney thing like you mentioned, and have taken it in a totally wrong direction. The importance of childhood and the place of children in our society is so misplaced that I think it gets over compensated for or over corrected in ways that manifest like the examples in the original post. But I don't think the way to correct my child not being welcome in a restaurant at 10pm is to treat her like an adult at home, OR, turn my house into a playground for her. You know? I guess because I do neither of those things we're not very child-centered.

I was raised in a home where at every family gathering there was a "kids table" and then after the kids got shunned to the basement to play games or keep themselves occupied while the adults socialized. We got the "you can be seen but not heard" speech on the way to anyone's house, and while we got compliments for being such nice polite kids, I have terrible memories of sitting in the basement with my cousins and friends BORED TO TEARS because I wasn't allowed to be around the rest of my family.

I'm not doing that with my kid. She sits at the table WITH the family. She socializes and hangs out WITH the family. Etc. There is no "kids this or that" or an "adult this or that". But I think what some people are getting at, and after reading the OP's latest post I think I might be right, is that when integrating kids into an adult dominated world you don't have to go overboard and over accommodate kids. Just because my kid sits at the table with us doesn't mean we talk about my little ponies for an hour while nobody else gets a word in edge wise. I, as her parent, guide her through the social graces of sitting at a table with a group of people. To some, that's very unchild-centered.

And in fact, that is sort of the down fall with our society now, is that everything has to be geared toward kids otherwise it's absurd that kids would be there or want to participate. It's fine to keep young kids out till midnight at Disney World. You see parents pushing sleeping kids in strollers all over the park. Totally fine. But OMG, don't a take a kid to walmart at 10pm.

There's a preconceived "kids" world, where everything from what they eat at restaurants, to what they play with and what they wear, to where they can hang out is all determined and when kids fall outside of that people don't really know how to respond (and sometimes not so much because they don't think a kid should be there, but just because there IS a kid there).

I remember taking my daughter to an open air concert in the park this past summer at 9pm. She LOVED it. It was big band type music, and I sat in a lawn chair and she twirled around in the grass like a maniac for 2 hours while all the adults sat and chatted. But she was the ONLY kid there. I guess kids only like concerts in the park when it's a kids band or someone playing kids music? She was a total hit and the lady sitting next to me told me she was going to bring her grand kids next weekend. She had never THOUGHT to bring them! But because I didn't rush her home at bedtime and insist she go to bed at a decent hour, and instead chose to socialize with adults while my kid entertained herself at an otherwise "adult" event, I wasn't being very child-centered.

I think allowing kids to be part of the real world without squishing them into the predetermined "kids world box" is the very nature of not being child-centered. And I think if more people steered toward not being child centered, our society would be more accepting of children.

Originally Posted by bluedaisy

By not being child centered I do NOT mean ignoring or neglecting kids - I agree there is too much of this in the US and I fully believe in AP and being WITH your kids, etc.

I guess it's more of the indulgent child pseudo culture which is driven by consumerism - there's a big market out there to create a "kid's world" instead of meaningfully incorporating kids into the real world.

And this is what I mean by not being child centered - allowing your child to interact in the real world - to take their needs and desires seriously but to teach them from a young age that they can't always get what they want. My child might WANT to eat ice cream for every meal, but my job as a parent is to make sure she is eating properly which means I cannot satisfy her every desire. My child might WANT my undivided attention 24/7 but there are other things I need to do and other important relationships in my life so while I will give her undivided attention every day, she is going to have to learn that I can't do that 24/7. And I think it's important for her to be there WITH me while i cook dinner, do laundry, go shopping, talk to my DH or visit with friends - so she can observe how to interact in the real world - she just won't be the center of attention, kwim?

I agree!! As much as it's important for us to have our daughter with us and a part of our lives without having to always do "kid stuff", we also recognize that not everyone wants to hear a kid "being a kid" at 10pm. I think the respect goes both ways. She can come anywhere we go (within reason) but there are certain times she will not be permitted to act like the hooligan 3 year old that she is. The trade off for her being welcome at our regular hang outs is that we've taken the steps to make sure we're not disrupting the rest of the world just because we have a kid with us. Also not very child-centered. Unfortunately, some people view that as a bad thing, and think children should be welcome anywhere and ALSO be allowed to "act like kids". I disagree. And with that philosophy, it's no wonder people grit their teeth when a kid walks into a restaurant at 10pm. My kid is not the center of the universe.

[TopHat]

Gosh this thread makes me sound awfully child-centered.

I definitely work around my daughter's naps. I go at her pace when we run errands. Yesterday we had to walk 5 blocks to go to a store. I went at her pace. Yes, it took like 20 minutes, but she needed the exercise and I didn't NEED to be at the store in 5 minutes. We slowed down so she could practice walking backwards, walking along the edge of the sidewalk and the grass, to see the store that had big balloons in front. We got out of the way when people passed us and when we crossed streets, I carried her so we could cross before the light turned red, but other than that, I let her set the pace. Maybe I'm too indulgent and ignoring my own needs (I feel great after brisk walks and I need them for exercise since I don't any other way to get exercise), but I feel it's important to let them explore at their own pace. That's a real need of being a child, and I've found that slowing down and going at her pace fulfills a hidden need I didn't realize I had until I had her: the need to slow down and think of others besides myself.

And then at the store the other day, she was in the cart, but after a while, she wanted out, so I let her down and she "helped" me push the cart. Maybe that's indulgent too, but she's small and maybe her legs were falling asleep and she didn't have the words to say that, so she fussed. And it would have created a fruitless power struggle. I feel that if I had insisted, "You have to stay in the cart," I would have just created conflict that didn't need to be there. Having been a child in a "because I said so" house, I'm careful that I don't get stuck in a power struggle with my daughter just to prove I'm the bigger, older, in charge adult.

So I'm fairly lenient. I don't say no to her often (usually just for safety reasons) because many times, she's right: It IS more fun to stop and look at that bug, it IS more fun to "help" out even if it means we're going at a slower pace (she likes to "help" me carry my purse by holding one of the handles).

[The4OfUs]

I appreciate your post TopHat, but I don't think that's really what most of us are talking about. I do a lot of what you're talking about too; it's not indulgent, it's nuturing and helping your kid grow. Indulgent, to me would be if:

In walking down the sidewalk you didn't move her when blocking people, and you made the car traffic stop or slow down to accommodate you on purpose.

I don't think anyone here is saying kids shouldn't be allowed to be kids. That's what these discussions always seem to turn into - but I'm just about positive that's not what any of us are talking about.

[The4OfUs]

Originally Posted by North_Of_60

But because I didn't rush her home at bedtime and insist she go to bed at a decent hour, and instead chose to socialize with adults while my kid entertained herself at an otherwise "adult" event, I wasn't being very child-centered.

I agree with a lot of what you posted in your most recent post....but again, I would posit that this bedtime thing really has to do with the individual child, and not being "child centered" - I would love to bring my kids to evening events...but seriously, if they're out past 7:30 it turns into a disaster - in fact, just last night I pushed the envelope going to a tree-lighting ceremony with a friend set for 7pm. The tree lit, we milled aroudn for a few minutes, and then there was a concert at a nearby church and we tried to go to the concert, but my 3yo started whining loudly and refusing to sit still; I went out in the hallway with her for a minute to see if I could get her calmed, but when we went back in she was starting to make it difficult for people to hear the kids singing, so I hoisted her on my hip and we beat feet at 7:33 (I looked at the clock when I got in the car) - so I will continue to decline evening events, and rush home when we're out for dinnertime events. It's not because I feel like my kids don't "belong" out past 7:30, it's because they can't handle it.


Lots of interesting discussion going on here! I think there are a few different areas: Kids out in public at non-specifically-kid-oriented places/events, the increasing divide between "kid" food/entertainment and "adult" food/entertainment, and the increase in more intense/driven kid-focused activities and academics.

[North_Of_60]

Originally Posted by The4OfUs

I agree with a lot of what you posted in your most recent post....but again, I would posit that this bedtime thing really has to do with the individual child

Oh absolutely. It was just one example where some people might think parents SHOULD rush home to cater to the child's schedule, even though the child might not necessarily need it, simply because they're a child. Especially at an adult event where there are no other children. The horrors of a kid playing by herself. And being happy about it. While the adults essentially ignored her. NOT very child-centered at all.

[The4OfUs]

Originally Posted by North_Of_60

The horrors of a kid playing by herself. And being happy about it. While the adults essentially ignored her. NOT very child-centered at all.

OK, I see your point. It is a shame when kids are cringed at being places they normally aren't simply because they're kids.

[Harmony08]

A wise person on these boards once said or quoted from somewhere,

"Children get spoiled when they get too much of what they want and not enough of what they need"

I just thought I'd toss that idea into the discussion because I feel like what is lurking behind the negative aspects of "child-centered" is "spoiled". I interpret the above quote to mean that it is when parents give in to a child's wants all the time even when inappropriate because they are afraid of the child's negative emotions AND neglect (for whatever reason, many could apply) to instill basic virtues and to meet a child's most pressing needs (unconditional positive regard, respect, understanding, loving boundaries etc) you end up with a person who expects everything to go his way, for people to do what pleases him, who is afraid of his negative feelings, who is ill mannered and impolite and who is starving to have his real needs met. On the surface this person has everything but in reality he is a person who has always gotten everything he wanted but nothing he needed. He is rich in things and empty in spirit.

Sorry for the run ons!

[The4OfUs]

Nice post, Harmony08 - spot on.