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I just made my friend cry...

post #1 of 10
Thread Starter 
I'm fairly new the these forums, but ladies, I am so thankful for you! I live in East Texas currently, but have lived in Los Angeles and Iowa in the past 2 years. I have never seen so much anti-natural birthing/feeding/parenting as I do here, and in the South in general. It's hard.

I have a friend who has a baby 1 year older than my own 10 month old. She had a horrible birthing experience, with interventions and resulting in emergency c-section. She started BFing, but stopped. On numerous occasions she has made comments about how her family are not "baby makers" etc when this sort of topic comes up.

And it comes up a lot, because of our children, and that midwifery/birthing assistance/lactation consulting/natural etc is definitely my passion and where I'm pursuing as a lifelong "career". I had a homebirth which compared to hers was a piece of cake, have BF (exclusively until my daughter started eating off our plates 2 months ago), and we still BF about 10-12 times a day for either nutrition, comfort, or a quick "on the go" snack as she's crawling past while playing. VERY different experience than my friend.

We just went out for a little while and got to talking about breastfeeding. I tend to avoid this sort of topic around her because I know she's not at the same place I am (her husband actually told her he didn't want her to breastfeed the baby they're pregnant with right now because he didn't want the problems). But she seemed to be just talking about it with me so I kept going.

I am not as well-adversed in BFing/etc as I would like, but I do know a lot about the breast from my own research, LLL, being very interested in ANY BFing/childbirth stories from other women.

Anyway, the conversation did not go well. I know I wasn't abrasive at ALL, and she even said I'm one of the least judgmental people she knows and she never feels attacked or anything by me directly. But she started crying because it's so personal and vulnerable to her, and she said even just me saying a fact like "breastfeeding is better from a nutrition standpoint than formula" makes her feel like I'm saying she's a failure. This followed about her c-section too. She said she didn't feel like I had any room to really talk about any of it, because I had such a good time and did not understand how most women have it.

She said I'm one of three women she knows who had a birth unlike hers.

But then she said that she tried to BF and her Dr told her that her son was allergic to breastmilk and that he couldn't breathe and would have died if he wasn't put on formula.

I didn't pursue anything about that at that point in the conversation, and we finished with her embarrassed and me so sad I'd made her cry.

I don't know what to do, with her or even others. Childbirth/BFing is SO personal, obviously, that if someone hears that they maybe didn't or aren't doing the best, then they're a failure. And it seems that once someone does it once, they can't change their mind, because that would be admitting they'd failed or done it wrong.

How do we lactivists reach out to these hurting women? There is NO ONE that can tell me (though they try) that BFing or not BFing does not effect a woman's psyche. IT DOES. I'm even more riled up at the Dr who told her that, and didn't help her work through it correctly. How do I even share the truth about the breast, or BFing, with women who are so scarred they HAVE to believe the untruth to feel like they can live with the decisions they've already made?

Argh, I'm upset at the people in the medical field (and I suppose outside of it) that tell women they can't do it. I know my body is not the exception. But I don't know truly how to help change the mindset. And I hate that mindset, because it makes women like my friend feel like failures and cry.


...I think I'm going to go have a good cry myself, some chocolate and a movie. Then I'll go read 'Womanly Art Of Breastfeeding". It's always so encouraging. I just wish my LLL meeting was sooner than this next Thursday. I need me some BFing support!!!
post #2 of 10
Okay, First off MAJOR HUGS TO YOU!

I lived in East Texas for a long time and I know what you're talking about. We go visit occasionally and the few times I've NIP I've gotten odd stares.

I really dont know what to say to you that will help you talk to other moms. I know that it can be a touchy and painful subject. Maybe direct her here? Then she can talk to other moms that had c/s forced on them (that's what it sounds like) or had horrible advice (allergic to breastmilk??) and overcame it.

i think just telling her that it wasn't HER FAULT would help. If she can understand that she did the best she could with the knowledge she had it may help her...
post #3 of 10
I can imagine how bad you feel but I think you handled the situation very well w/out being able to know just how emotional the topic is for her.

First of all, I REALLY believe that in our formula/bottle feeding society it is a wonder that ANYONE is successful at BF, and I tell people this, especially women like your friend. It takes the issue of blame off of the woman and puts it where it belongs-on the medical establishment and society as a whole. Once the blame has been shifted appropriately then the woman is able to handle information a little more objectively.

So, you could call your friend and apologize for making her cry (which I am sure you did already), and just tell her that you in no way feel it was her fault that the birth and BF turned out the way it did. That the whole system is set up so that she would fail. That is the truth and it might help her understand her experiences in a way that make it possible for her to empower herself to make changes for the next baby.

Then tell her you will support her in whatever decisions she makes, w/no judgement, bc you trust that she knows herself and her situation better than anyone else. Then offer your help and expertise if she wants any info.

I can really tell from your post that you are coming from a place of love for your friend and I can't imagine that she could miss that.
post #4 of 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by tanyam926 View Post
I can imagine how bad you feel but I think you handled the situation very well w/out being able to know just how emotional the topic is for her.

First of all, I REALLY believe that in our formula/bottle feeding society it is a wonder that ANYONE is successful at BF, and I tell people this, especially women like your friend. It takes the issue of blame off of the woman and puts it where it belongs-on the medical establishment and society as a whole. Once the blame has been shifted appropriately then the woman is able to handle information a little more objectively.

So, you could call your friend and apologize for making her cry (which I am sure you did already), and just tell her that you in no way feel it was her fault that the birth and BF turned out the way it did. That the whole system is set up so that she would fail. That is the truth and it might help her understand her experiences in a way that make it possible for her to empower herself to make changes for the next baby.

Then tell her you will support her in whatever decisions she makes, w/no judgement, bc you trust that she knows herself and her situation better than anyone else. Then offer your help and expertise if she wants any info.

I can really tell from your post that you are coming from a place of love for your friend and I can't imagine that she could miss that.
beautifully said. ita
post #5 of 10
It doesn't sound like you *made* her cry to me. It sounds like she is still processing/grieving an experience she wishes had been different.

It sounds like she had limited support and bad advice and few natural birth/BF role models so it's hardly surprising that things turned out as they did. The fact that she brings it up with you suggests that she is looking for something but whether that is validation of her choices or help to do something different next time is up to you to determine from her cues.

If you feel like you were inadvertently harsh or insensitive in any way then definitely apologise but if not then I would just raise the topic at the next opportunity. I'd probably say something like "Did you want to talk more about breastfeeding/natural birth? Is there anything I can help you work through or find more information about?" Something like that.
post #6 of 10
I don't know what you should say, but I hope you can convey to her that A LOT of women go on to have unmedicated/midwife attended and/ or home births and to breastfeed later children AFTER having traumatic births or difficult breastfeeding experiences. That those experiences caused them to look for alternatives and that many women who have had your experience do not "get it" on the first try.
post #7 of 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by tanyam926 View Post
I can imagine how bad you feel but I think you handled the situation very well w/out being able to know just how emotional the topic is for her.

First of all, I REALLY believe that in our formula/bottle feeding society it is a wonder that ANYONE is successful at BF, and I tell people this, especially women like your friend. It takes the issue of blame off of the woman and puts it where it belongs-on the medical establishment and society as a whole. Once the blame has been shifted appropriately then the woman is able to handle information a little more objectively.

So, you could call your friend and apologize for making her cry (which I am sure you did already), and just tell her that you in no way feel it was her fault that the birth and BF turned out the way it did. That the whole system is set up so that she would fail. That is the truth and it might help her understand her experiences in a way that make it possible for her to empower herself to make changes for the next baby.

Then tell her you will support her in whatever decisions she makes, w/no judgement, bc you trust that she knows herself and her situation better than anyone else. Then offer your help and expertise if she wants any info.

I can really tell from your post that you are coming from a place of love for your friend and I can't imagine that she could miss that.
I agree with this, except I'd end it with, "If you want more info, I'd love to help. Every woman is capable of having a beautiful birth/breastfeeding experience, if she has the information and support that she needs. I wish our society was more helpful in this aspect" etc etc, so that you are emphasizing that she CAN do it, without putting the blame on her for not doing it before.
post #8 of 10
Thread Starter 
Thanks so much for the support. I know it was *me* making her cry, but it was still so hard to work through what I should say in response.

Her wording and way of talking about all of it is never in a "seeking" a better way. She is very set in the thought that she must endure the curse of childbirth to have kids. She already has a c-section scheduled for the baby they're pregnant with. While we were talking she called c-sections a blessing from heaven, because it saved her from the horrible labor experience.

Her husband is also VERY against her BFing in the future with baby#2. As in, he will not let her. I don't think even a woman who wanting to BF would be able to fight through any difficulty without the support of her husband.

I think, with her alone, I may have to back off what I talk about to some degree, and then when I do, make sure I'm talking about it from the AAP, Ob-Gyn Association, etc standpoint with facts, etc.

Maybe she'll want to have a go at BFing by June, and I know she knows I'll be there for her to help if she does.
post #9 of 10
I'm sorry for your friend and I know you had the best of intentions. I have all the compassion in the world for women that were unsuccessful/let down, etc.

However, on the other hand I also believe that as mothers, we do share some responsibility to educate ourselves and do the research. I cannot tell you how many stories I hear of women who just were not prepared fully or thought BF would just "happen". I wish that breastfeeding were easy and wonderful from the beginning for every mother and baby but often that is not the case. Guilt doesn't do any new mom a bit of good and it certainly doesn't help lactivism.

I know that being human and having all these emotions about BF makes it tough to let go of the guilt. If someone truly gave it their all then what is there to feel guilty about? It's such a sensitive topic but does kind of boggle the mind when it seems that your friend won't want to try to BF her second child. I really hope she changes her mind.
post #10 of 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Latte Mama View Post
If someone truly gave it their all then what is there to feel guilty about?
I don't know if guilty is the right word but it just feels terrible to think that you didn't give your LO the best of all possible worlds.

I had a very sleepy newborn who didn't suck well enough to bring in a good milk supply, and I ended up having to supplement long-term. After a lot of research I realized there were things I could have done differently early on that might have saved my supply - except I couldn't, bc I didn't know.

'Guilty' to me implies knowingly doing wrong, so I wouldn't use that term. But it is really hard to swallow to know that my LO didn't get the best - and we are talking about a few oz of formula a day, not a total loss of bf. I could see how a mama in that position would just Not Want To Hear It, kwim?

(And "you can do better with the next one" just reinforces that "you didn't get it right with THIS one," so that is also sort of hard to hear iyswim.)
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