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post #21 of 31
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1jooj View Post
I wouldn't think for a moment that switching to off-grid living would be less busy. Like annethcz said, live the way you want to live now. Log off, turn off, say no, shut down, etc. to the extent you need to.

If you were to move to the countryside, would you be pursuing a degree of self-sufficiency? Perhaps you might not be driving all over the place--but you may be gardening; feeding, watering and cleaning up the poop of livestock; milking; maintaining grounds, fences, barns, buildings; canning, butchering, freezing and dehydrating. Add to that the day-to-day of laundry, housecleaning, dishes, cooking, etc. and homeschooling, and there went your day. It's easy enough go nuts at peak season when you're canning and pickling and freezing and butchering chickens...or in spring when you're tilling and planting and lambing/kidding/brooding chicks...
That's the kind of 'busy' that I want to be. Right now we live on a few acres, raise some of our own food, and are working towards raising more of it. We have a composting toilet, and have to walk 50 feet to running water.

So, we are easing in to it, in a way. But I long for quiet, peace, beautiful scenery, children who don't crave the latest gadget... there is something seriously wrong with the way we live, so dependent on technology. I can't stand it some days... my heart aces, too, pp!!
post #22 of 31
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BedHead View Post
I hate the way I am living but have no idea how to change it.

My main stumbling block is the fact that no one else in my family shares my dream. They all want to keep running the rat race and can't envision this simpler life I seek. I would have to leave them all behind and I can't do that.
Do it. Use your own money, buy a small parcel of land, invite your kids/hubby to come with, and build yourself a vacation cabin. Then, ease into living there. That's what I'm gonna do!

We only have one life. If your heart aches for something so good and right, you need to do it. If your husband loves you, he'll come. If he doesn't you can decide what's more important, being in your 'vacation' cabin parts of the year, or giving up something that your heart aches for in order to 'keep peace.' I'm not trying to be a downer, but there has to be room for compromise in relationships. I told my DP that I was going to use my money to buy land and build a cabin with the dream of living there full time someday, and he kinda laughed, but once I explained how deeply i felt about, he said okay. He's even going to join me at some point! And your kids are old enough that they could come along sometimes. Esp. your unschooler!

We only have one life
post #23 of 31
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1jooj View Post

If you were to move to the countryside, would you be pursuing a degree of self-sufficiency? Perhaps you might not be driving all over the place--but you may be gardening; feeding, watering and cleaning up the poop of livestock; milking; maintaining grounds, fences, barns, buildings; canning, butchering, freezing and dehydrating. Add to that the day-to-day of laundry, housecleaning, dishes, cooking, etc. and homeschooling, and there went your day. It's easy enough go nuts at peak season when you're canning and pickling and freezing and butchering chickens...or in spring when you're tilling and planting and lambing/kidding/brooding chicks...

I totally hear ya! We live remote off grid and I thought this thread was about saying enough of this life I'm getting a condo!!

This life is so much constant work and there can be so much stress. Like one of my heifers is due to calf and its 20 below, we were out a few times in the night checking and we still need to work and pay our bills. Its a whole new level of sleep deprivation. Mothering is really intense when you've got human babies and animals to milk and butchering. I do alot with babes on my back but when it is really cold I can't. I am not trying to be a downer but if your stressed now you probably will be even more stressed living self sufficiently. Stress must be managed were your at. This life is worth it and beautiful but it is not idyllic and precious. Sometimes I feel like I am in a rat race to get the food put away and the beds planted...... But the woodstove is lovely.
post #24 of 31
I have lived in the country, in the suburbs and in the city. Living simply can be achieved anywhere. Living in the country, and sustainably is a rat-race of its own. It's a race with mother nature and is not any easier or less stressful that other types of living. You live rurally because you love living rurally. It's the hardest work you'll ever do, though. Back-breaking, every day, take no break and no vacation (if you have livestock that needs tended). Having lived rurally, I give one piece of advice... don't romanticize it. It's hard damned work.
post #25 of 31
We have for just a year and a half lived in the far north (above the 62nd parallel) and before that we moved from a very busy and metropolitan region of Ontario to the remote north of that province and lived there for 2 years. Then we just finished with being completely off-grid for four months and not just off-grid, but also no electricity or water or internet. There was a landline telephone for emergencies.

We have moved closer to a city now, but we're still rural and still in the bush. BUT because there are enough others in the bush too, there is grid electricity, which we now have. I am torn about keeping it. I like having internet access, but I don't like the buzz and humm of the electricity. I also don't like all the appliances we now have because we have it. We were using a dug-in cold box for food and had a gas stove and a woodstove where we were. I didn't like using propane for the stove, and if it were our home, I would have switched to a wood-burning cookstove.

I hatehatehate having pump-house water. So far we've had frozen pipes as often as we've had water for the past couple of weeks since we came and since we didn't have running water for a year and a half previously, I'm finding having it to be a huge hassle. Before we were set up for no plumbing or water and now we're not, and we're also not having the water! We just finally thawed the plumbing after three days of no water and pouring water down the toilet to flush as well as still hauling water, running energy-sucking heaters on the pipes, amongst other inconveniences. (I'll be posting a new thread about this...) I think we're going to close up the plumbing and carry on hauling water as before, and using a sawdust toilet like before too.

Thankfully, we don't yet have animals to water!!!

For us, we couldn't really have started living this way while still in the city- even when we first moved to a remote town of 200 people. We weren't set up for it and so much is learned out of necessity that we couldn't have really understood even when we read about it.

The other thing is that sometimes people find out that they really like the idea of this, but when they face it for real, it isn't what they expected. A friend of mine who started in southern Ontario too and then moved here a few months ago, really thought she would like the small town simplicity of where we used to live. She yearned for it and when they came to visit us, she was astonished by how little was available to us, that we had to travel twice/month for 11 hrs for food and supplies, that we had to do a lot of preserving of foods to make them last for two+ weeks (only!) or make our own foods that just didn't come up that way (plain yogurt, cheeses, etc...)

Then she and her family moved up here thinking they would also move slowly into the bush while learning the skills they'd need. It turns out that her visits to our home have revealed to her that there is no way she could do this. She is not independent-minded in the sense that she is happy to work alone. That's pretty essential out here. She doesn't know how to and is fine with not knowing how to make fun and entertainment that doesn't come ready-made, and the same goes for food (there's just no way she could skin an animal or would wait for vegetables to cook on the stove when the microwave can cook everything). She tried living without a microwave for a month and that was as 'rural' as she could go.

Then she realised that she really wants all of her appliances. Certainly she could have them all and live rurally too, but to live like this, we find that we just don't have time to care for such things when we have other realities afoot.

I also cannot have people over every day out here. It's just too far away for most people to travel frequently, so we have visitors once or twice each month. Presently, we are living on a farm owned by our friends though, so for now, we have built-in visitors but that is certainly not usual for out here.

We will be building our house beginning this coming spring and it will probably take us two or three years (short summers and lots of kidlets including one coming this summer). We have the enormous gift of living on the farm from which we usually purchase our staples, so we will continue to pay for what eventually we will toil for in the future. My dh works outside of town most of the time, but on the other side of the city we live near, so it's an hour commute at the least, each way and it's a straight highway with only one set of lights. A short trip into town is a minimum of four hours away from home. There's just no way to shave it down.

Maybe you could visit someone who lives the way you wish to. Personally this works for me because it is what I want, and not just an alternative to what I don't want, which is what my friend found out after making the move out here and then living in a suburb of the city, with every convenience and literally sharing a wall with one neighbour and close enough to talk in the window of the other. I suffocate like that. I like acres between homes- like 15 at least, if not more. She likes ten feet.

There is an unending supply of solitude off-grid or in areas like this. It's not less busy, just different busy, and there is a lot more personal responsibility out here. If you like to rely on organisations or governmental programs of any sort, this won't work. If you are a self-starter and love the silence of vast expanses of land, the dirt (because it will be everywhere, even if just as dust in your house), and the idea of using an outhouse doesn't make you cringe (because even if you don't have one, your neighbours might and if you want to be friends with someone, you'll have to use it sometime), and you truly want what it IS rather than how it isn't what you don't like about your life now, then try it out.

I have weaned off of so many things that I am startled when my city friends ask me something about what I've completely forgotten is 'normal', so I cannot give you such a great run-down. A few years ago I was much more aware of how much we had removed from our life, but now it's our 'normal' and it hopefully won't include a water toilet for much longer. I just hate them!

Sorry for the convolutions. After four months of no internet, my dc aren't used to me sitting down at the computer and they are crawling on me while I type and asking me questions, and I'm very distracted.

Try to figure out if *this* is really what you want. I don't completely agree that you'll be yourself the way you are now when you move off-grid or to the bush or wherever. I am myself for sure, but not the way I saw myself or was before doing so. Time, choices, and life do work some changes, I think, at least for me. I have developed an amazingly large amount of patience as a result of not only having littles, but also dealing with the reality that everything takes longer out here.

When we go to town, I find the relatively slow pace of the city to be way too fast for me. Other people vacation there because of its slow and relaxed atmosphere. I am happy to leave when we're done, and find that even just visiting friends there has the same effect because they live at the pace of the city (and love it because they came here to slow down).

There are actual cases of cabin fever out here. We avoid it during the deep freeze by keeping ourselves creative and engaged in our interests alongside our chores. You also MUST have a passion for a hobby or personal/individual creative outlet of some sort out here. Must.
post #26 of 31
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by PreggieUBA2C View Post
We have for just a year and a half lived in the far north (above the 62nd parallel) and before that we moved from a very busy and metropolitan region of Ontario to the remote north of that province and lived there for 2 years. Then we just finished with being completely off-grid for four months and not just off-grid, but also no electricity or water or internet. There was a landline telephone for emergencies.

We have moved closer to a city now, but we're still rural and still in the bush. BUT because there are enough others in the bush too, there is grid electricity, which we now have. I am torn about keeping it. I like having internet access, but I don't like the buzz and humm of the electricity. I also don't like all the appliances we now have because we have it. We were using a dug-in cold box for food and had a gas stove and a woodstove where we were. I didn't like using propane for the stove, and if it were our home, I would have switched to a wood-burning cookstove.

I hatehatehate having pump-house water. So far we've had frozen pipes as often as we've had water for the past couple of weeks since we came and since we didn't have running water for a year and a half previously, I'm finding having it to be a huge hassle. Before we were set up for no plumbing or water and now we're not, and we're also not having the water! We just finally thawed the plumbing after three days of no water and pouring water down the toilet to flush as well as still hauling water, running energy-sucking heaters on the pipes, amongst other inconveniences. (I'll be posting a new thread about this...) I think we're going to close up the plumbing and carry on hauling water as before, and using a sawdust toilet like before too.

Thankfully, we don't yet have animals to water!!!

For us, we couldn't really have started living this way while still in the city- even when we first moved to a remote town of 200 people. We weren't set up for it and so much is learned out of necessity that we couldn't have really understood even when we read about it.

The other thing is that sometimes people find out that they really like the idea of this, but when they face it for real, it isn't what they expected. A friend of mine who started in southern Ontario too and then moved here a few months ago, really thought she would like the small town simplicity of where we used to live. She yearned for it and when they came to visit us, she was astonished by how little was available to us, that we had to travel twice/month for 11 hrs for food and supplies, that we had to do a lot of preserving of foods to make them last for two+ weeks (only!) or make our own foods that just didn't come up that way (plain yogurt, cheeses, etc...)

Then she and her family moved up here thinking they would also move slowly into the bush while learning the skills they'd need. It turns out that her visits to our home have revealed to her that there is no way she could do this. She is not independent-minded in the sense that she is happy to work alone. That's pretty essential out here. She doesn't know how to and is fine with not knowing how to make fun and entertainment that doesn't come ready-made, and the same goes for food (there's just no way she could skin an animal or would wait for vegetables to cook on the stove when the microwave can cook everything). She tried living without a microwave for a month and that was as 'rural' as she could go.

Then she realised that she really wants all of her appliances. Certainly she could have them all and live rurally too, but to live like this, we find that we just don't have time to care for such things when we have other realities afoot.

I also cannot have people over every day out here. It's just too far away for most people to travel frequently, so we have visitors once or twice each month. Presently, we are living on a farm owned by our friends though, so for now, we have built-in visitors but that is certainly not usual for out here.

We will be building our house beginning this coming spring and it will probably take us two or three years (short summers and lots of kidlets including one coming this summer). We have the enormous gift of living on the farm from which we usually purchase our staples, so we will continue to pay for what eventually we will toil for in the future. My dh works outside of town most of the time, but on the other side of the city we live near, so it's an hour commute at the least, each way and it's a straight highway with only one set of lights. A short trip into town is a minimum of four hours away from home. There's just no way to shave it down.

Maybe you could visit someone who lives the way you wish to. Personally this works for me because it is what I want, and not just an alternative to what I don't want, which is what my friend found out after making the move out here and then living in a suburb of the city, with every convenience and literally sharing a wall with one neighbour and close enough to talk in the window of the other. I suffocate like that. I like acres between homes- like 15 at least, if not more. She likes ten feet.

There is an unending supply of solitude off-grid or in areas like this. It's not less busy, just different busy, and there is a lot more personal responsibility out here. If you like to rely on organisations or governmental programs of any sort, this won't work. If you are a self-starter and love the silence of vast expanses of land, the dirt (because it will be everywhere, even if just as dust in your house), and the idea of using an outhouse doesn't make you cringe (because even if you don't have one, your neighbours might and if you want to be friends with someone, you'll have to use it sometime), and you truly want what it IS rather than how it isn't what you don't like about your life now, then try it out.

I have weaned off of so many things that I am startled when my city friends ask me something about what I've completely forgotten is 'normal', so I cannot give you such a great run-down. A few years ago I was much more aware of how much we had removed from our life, but now it's our 'normal' and it hopefully won't include a water toilet for much longer. I just hate them!

Sorry for the convolutions. After four months of no internet, my dc aren't used to me sitting down at the computer and they are crawling on me while I type and asking me questions, and I'm very distracted.

Try to figure out if *this* is really what you want. I don't completely agree that you'll be yourself the way you are now when you move off-grid or to the bush or wherever. I am myself for sure, but not the way I saw myself or was before doing so. Time, choices, and life do work some changes, I think, at least for me. I have developed an amazingly large amount of patience as a result of not only having littles, but also dealing with the reality that everything takes longer out here.

When we go to town, I find the relatively slow pace of the city to be way too fast for me. Other people vacation there because of its slow and relaxed atmosphere. I am happy to leave when we're done, and find that even just visiting friends there has the same effect because they live at the pace of the city (and love it because they came here to slow down).

There are actual cases of cabin fever out here. We avoid it during the deep freeze by keeping ourselves creative and engaged in our interests alongside our chores. You also MUST have a passion for a hobby or personal/individual creative outlet of some sort out here. Must.
You've talked me into it One of the reasons I want to move is so I'm not so distracted by the meaningless things, and have more time for my 'hobbies' like sewing, writing, and of course, being a MOM! I also adore our chickens, and the thought of milking a goat on a cold winter morning makes me
post #27 of 31
Me too. I found every warning to be an encouragement. Maybe that's the way to sift oneself?

I thought that people who say they want his really do though because it's so unusual for western society, so I was truly shocked that my friend's actual desire was so far in a very different direction afterall. She would have had a nervous breakdown if they'd done what they'd initially planned! Her dh came up first and stayed with us to look for a rural/bush home/cabin for them. He didn't find one suitable for them and decided to instead rent in the city temporarily, but it turns out that city living is what they'll be doing forever if they can (although he prefers the bush). They're looking for a house in-town! What a turn-around!!!

But like you, I just knew where I needed to be. I couldn't go back to the city; I'd just curl up and die.
post #28 of 31
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by PreggieUBA2C View Post
Me too. I found every warning to be an encouragement. Maybe that's the way to sift oneself?

I thought that people who say they want his really do though because it's so unusual for western society, so I was truly shocked that my friend's actual desire was so far in a very different direction afterall. She would have had a nervous breakdown if they'd done what they'd initially planned! Her dh came up first and stayed with us to look for a rural/bush home/cabin for them. He didn't find one suitable for them and decided to instead rent in the city temporarily, but it turns out that city living is what they'll be doing forever if they can (although he prefers the bush). They're looking for a house in-town! What a turn-around!!!

But like you, I just knew where I needed to be. I couldn't go back to the city; I'd just curl up and die.
Yeah, I could NEVER live in a city. Even the town we lived in (50,000) was too big; now we live out in an area with farmland where our closest neighbor is about 500 yards away and it's still too civilized for me. 'Every warning an encouragement' - I love that
post #29 of 31
I forgot to mention that the slow-paced city that's too fast for me has a population of 24,000. And we're in the mountains so it's not a city like a usual one- still lots of wildlife (moose and grizzlies wandering downtown occasionally) and natural surroundings.

We started in a city of 350,000 within one hr of the Greater Toronto Area, then moved to a town of 200 and I holed up there to de-city and now we're here. We are far enough from the city that we can't see it's light at all but close enough that we can drive there in about 35 minutes. We're up a long winding highway and past several mountains so there's lots of landmass and terrain that separate us from any aspect of city life. They do have electricity running through here though becausethe only hydro-electric plant here supplies cities and towns north of us, so it passes us along the highways and through the brush too.

With having such an unusual lifestyle, I often find that it's the warnings that help me to find what I'm looking for.

"Oh, you wouldn't want to live there; it's full of back-to-the-landers and non-code cabins and stuff- no water and everybody there plays banjo or guitar. And you have a family, so I wouldn't recommend it."

"Yeah, I wouldn't keep the baby in your bed because then he'll be with you all the time and he'll want to sleep with you when he's older."

"I wouldn't buy food from them. They let their animals roam around wherever they want to and they don't use anything like fertilisers or pesticides to make the food safer. And they slaughter their own chickens! Gross."

"Don't buy their milk. They sell it as dog food because it's not pasteurised. You can't drink it."

Perfect. Thanks! Where is that???
post #30 of 31
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by PreggieUBA2C View Post
still lots of wildlife (moose and grizzlies wandering downtown occasionally) and natural surroundings.

"Oh, you wouldn't want to live there; it's full of back-to-the-landers and non-code cabins and stuff- no water and everybody there plays banjo or guitar. And you have a family, so I wouldn't recommend it."

"Yeah, I wouldn't keep the baby in your bed because then he'll be with you all the time and he'll want to sleep with you when he's older."

"I wouldn't buy food from them. They let their animals roam around wherever they want to and they don't use anything like fertilisers or pesticides to make the food safer. And they slaughter their own chickens! Gross."

"Don't buy their milk. They sell it as dog food because it's not pasteurised. You can't drink it."

Perfect. Thanks! Where is that???
Ha! You're speaking my language!!! Have you read 'Everything I Want To Do Is Illegal?' You sound a lot like the author, Joel Salatin. Where is it that you live? I'm guessing Canada somewhere? I'm in a west-coast state where I can get non-pasteurized milk and free-range meat of all kinds at the Farmer's Market
post #31 of 31
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThoughtFullMama View Post
Ha! You're speaking my language!!! Have you read 'Everything I Want To Do Is Illegal?' You sound a lot like the author, Joel Salatin. Where is it that you live? I'm guessing Canada somewhere? I'm in a west-coast state where I can get non-pasteurized milk and free-range meat of all kinds at the Farmer's Market
I'm reading that book right now! I have to read a chapter and then take a break. It is very stressful because I am on another side trying to support people doing what he does, looking forward to doing the same, but just as a homestead farm and not for profit (we'll have seven people here to feed, and already the 4 boys eat as much as me and dh, respectively, so I don't imagine there will be anything left after we've eaten). I had to take two breaks during the egg chapter. That one had my ire up more especially than the others so far.

I do relate very well to his style of thinking and his passion for what he believes and/or knows is right. So I'll take your assessment as a compliment.

We're in northern Canada. We can easily obtain free-range meat, but unpasteurised milk is sold as dog food because it is illegal to sell it at the farm gate for human consumption. There's no way I would buy unpasteurised milk from a grocery, so even though some stores carry it (though not here), I wouldn't buy it anyway. I do buy raw milk cheese and yogurt at a small grocery though fermented, so not as concerning).

Have you seen Food Inc.? Joel Salatin is interviewed, amongst others like Michael Pollan (The Omnivore's Dilemma). It was very basic, but still enjoyable if for no other reason than that somebody is speaking aloud about what's going on. There are a few others we'd like to see on the same subject.

Right now I'm also reading The World Without Us (Allan Weisman) and The Big Picture (David Suzuki). I don't have enough books with me that I haven't yet read (we have 13 large boxes full of our books in Ontario waiting to be shipped here). Usually I have five or six going all the time, but for now my selection is sparse.

See? MUST have a hobby (actually many is better).

Do you know where you'd like to live? I can't remember if you mentioned that already.
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