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Hostility towards strollers - Page 6

post #101 of 182
SF is crazy child-unfriendly, it has been for more than a decade.
post #102 of 182
Quote:
Originally Posted by urklemama View Post
SF is crazy child-unfriendly, it has been for more than a decade.
. Well then maybe it's that I just don't see this stuff and don't care what others think. I grew up 2 hours away.. granted my parents took us there once... but I have never heard this before nor have I run into it in the North Bay.
post #103 of 182
I've only read page 1 and I feel that it's my 'duty' to post in defense of large stroller mamas everywhere! I use a large stroller, got 2 of them in fact, and yes it is sometimes inconvenient I strive to be polite at all times. Then again, that's my personality... perhaps not everyone out there with a large stroller has manners!

We have 'the beast' which is the mega huge double stroller. You know, the kind that you can put 2 infant carriers onto b/c it's just.that.big. It's heavy and bulky but it certainly gets the job done. I use it quite often when I meet my mommy friends to go mall-walking. With the combined weight of that stroller and my 2 kids I get a good workout too!

We also have the side by side umbrella stroller type double. No cool features on this one but it comes in handy on trips and such. I have had problems getting through stores with it, but as my uncle is a double amputee and in a wheelchair I am pretty confident talking to a manager and informing them that if I cannot fit through with the stroller then a someone in a wheelchair would be unable to as the stroller is 1/2 inch smaller in width than a standard wheelchair.

Oh, and yes, my kids are old enough to walk. BUT I have wild little ones who will (and have) taken off running from me in a store. Sometimes when DH is out of town and errands need to be taken care of it's better for their safety (and my sanity) to let them ride in the stroller.

Beth
post #104 of 182
In my town there are some stores that prohibit strollers.. I don't have much of an issue with it.I just go when I can have someone watch my little ones or don't go at all. I have had tons of strollers.. double side by side.. large strollers with the carseat attaching ability, etc.. but my FAVORITE is my umbrella stroller.. It's super basic, and cheap.. BUT I can get it in and out of any place. It also fits really well in the floorboard of my SUV.. I don't have to unlock the back to get a big stroller out.
post #105 of 182
I don't have hostility towards the majority of stroller users but I do towards some rude people who use them - many times I have been rammed into or had someone cut across me suddenly which hurts my ankles and knees to stop suddenly.
post #106 of 182
Quote:
Originally Posted by bebebradford View Post
In my town there are some stores that prohibit strollers.. I don't have much of an issue with it.I just go when I can have someone watch my little ones or don't go at all. I have had tons of strollers.. double side by side.. large strollers with the carseat attaching ability, etc.. but my FAVORITE is my umbrella stroller.. It's super basic, and cheap.. BUT I can get it in and out of any place. It also fits really well in the floorboard of my SUV.. I don't have to unlock the back to get a big stroller out.
I wouldn't go to a store that didn't allow strollers just out of principal. I hate dogs but we didn't ban them from our shop. We knew doing so would alginate some of our customers who might not come back.

If they wanna ban strollers thats thats their prerogative but I am not going to shop there.. period.
post #107 of 182
Awww.. seriously don't sweat what people think. I always try to be polite to others in stores,etc... but if I stress them out over having my kids/stroller/etc.. that's just their tough luck. You'll never see them again anyways. So just smile and forget about them.
post #108 of 182
Quote:
Originally Posted by aniT View Post
I wouldn't go to a store that didn't allow strollers just out of principal. I hate dogs but we didn't ban them from our shop. We knew doing so would alginate some of our customers who might not come back.

If they wanna ban strollers thats thats their prerogative but I am not going to shop there.. period.
Well I'm an antique collector.. those were most of the stores I was referring to. All the antique shops in town prohibit them.. and I totally understand why. It's funny though because some moms around here have gotten into such a tizzy over it..
post #109 of 182
Quote:
Originally Posted by bebebradford View Post
Well I'm an antique collector.. those were most of the stores I was referring to. All the antique shops in town prohibit them.. and I totally understand why. It's funny though because some moms around here have gotten into such a tizzy over it..
I would rather a child come into my store contained in a stroller than running loose. I don't think they are using common sense unless they ban children all together.. which ... wouldn't make me any more likely to shop there.
post #110 of 182
I received the same reaction from people when I was on crutches with a broken leg, whenever I went anywhere crowded; I also experienced it when taking myself through a crowded airport in a wheelchair (due to the broken leg). Annoyed looks, people shoving past me, etc. I think a lot of people are very self-centered and get ticked off at anything that inconveniences them in the least. It can be quite heartless.

But the people who went out of their way to be nice to me, and to help me in those situations....they were like stars on a dark night...and I appreciated it so much !!!! The whole experience was a great lesson about empathy, and how much a bit of kindness and consideration can mean to someone who is struggling.

Anyway, I don't think the people who react that way have anything particular against children or strollers. I think those people would probably react in a similar way to someone on crutches or in a wheelchair.

BTW I use a stroller, for my 4yo, and it's not a small one either. It's easier for me to keep him contained than to have him running off. I don't care at all what others think of it - if they see it as inconveniencing them, it's a problem of their own perception. They are welcome to get over it when they are ready.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Harmony08 View Post
Has anyone else experienced this?

Why do people glare at you like you don't deserve to live when you are trying to navigate a crowd with your stroller? It has always surprised me how unhelpful most people can be (not holding doors, not moving out of the way) but this just outright hostility, like how dare you think I should move aside an inch to let your stroller through. I guess it is just another symptom of our strange society like... "it is your problem if you decide to have children, I don't want to see them, hear them, smell them, or let them through in their strollers".
post #111 of 182
I had no idea strollers were so controversial. I generally use the sling, however I do have two strollers - a big one that cost a bit, and an umbrella stroller I got from a garage sale for almost nothing that probably didn't cost much in the first place. I prefer the umbrella stroller, and it's lasted 7 years and two children without breaking, but if I'm going to be outside for like a whole day, I need to carry a lot of stuff with me, and the big stroller is a huge help. I've never gotten glares or anything but politeness. Nor have any ever hit anyone. I have also never been hit by a stroller. I can't recall having people block my way with a stroller, either. I suppose if that's ever happened, just saying "excuse me" must have solve the problem, or I'd probably remember.

I don't have much to add except that I've never had any of the problems other people have had with strollers or the people who use them.
post #112 of 182
I've been on both sides of this.

When DS was a baby and a toddler, I used a stroller. Not a behemoth, but not an umbrella. I had a Snugli carrier and used it occasionally, but found it difficult to use and uncomfortable. We were carless, so the stroller got used a lot. On buses. On sidewalks. In busy malls and grocery stores.

It was a love/hate relationship. It was necessary, but often inconvenient, or a hassle... but the lesser of the evils. I didn't often get glared at or anything, as I recall, in fact folks on the buses were generally very kind about it (we're in Canada eh), though I did feel terribly in the way.

Years later, I have DD. By this point, I'm aware of slings and want to try them. I try them, I never look back. She was never even in a stroller for her first year at all... and has only been in one a handful of times since, and those were all cases of going for walks from home, not going in a car or to the store. I've done the stroller, and I've done the sling, and for me, the sling was BY FAR the easier option in 99% of situations. She's almost 3 and I still use the sling when she can't walk.

Having said this, I know darn well that it's not the easier option for ALL parents ALL of the time. Of COURSE there are situations were strollers will be the more convenient, or only possible option. Many of those cases have been described here -- parents of multiples, parents with bad backs, logistical problems, etc.

However, those are INDIVIDUAL reasons... they are people who use a stroller out of necessity and in all likelihood would use a sling if it were the better option for them at a particular time (for instance, there are many who babywear for some situations and use a stroller for others).

The problem that I now have with strollers is not about the INDIVIDUALS who use them. It's about what they represent as the SOCIETAL attitude as to how we should schlep our kids around. It's about the majority of parents who are using strollers not because they have weighed the options and decided that the stroller is the better choice for them in this particular situation -- they're just using them because that's how babies are carried, period. There are those who even look down on babywearing because it fosters "too much" attachment.

There are also the great many parents (a majority? I don't know, but a great many) who schlep their infant in the car seat all. the. time.... put it in in the house, carry it to the car, plop it in the stroller, back to the car, back to the house, leave the sleeping baby in there for its nap... etc. These poor kids hardly ever get human contact. Now before anyone jumps on my, I KNOW that sometimes it's more convenient (cold weather, etc). Again, I'm talking about a general societal attitude, not individual circumstances. These parents either don't realize that they'r depriving their children of essential physical contact, or else they honestly believe that this is better for them (developing independence). They're also very often not at all aware of the research about the dangers of babies sleeping in car seats (cutting off airways, not to mention flat heads), or issues of lack of stimulation.

I try not to be judgmental when I see an individual parent with an individual child in a stroller -- even when it's one of these behemoth travel systems. This could be an individual case of the best option given their specific circumstances.

But when we're out at a park or a store or wherever, and there are 100 parents with babies and toddlers, and 98 of them are in strollers and only 2 are in slings, then as a GENERAL view I can fairly safely deduce that MOST of them were NOT carefully decided in that manner... they were just stuck into strollers because babywearing (or other options) is just not on their radar. Kids BELONG in strollers, where you don't have to interact with them as much.

I'm sure someone's going to jump on me for saying that, so I'm going to try to clarify once more... I KNOW that this is not the case for most mommas here on MDC. It's not the case for every momma pushing her baby in a stroller. But it is very often the case. So it's not the strollers themselves that irk me... it's the fact that their EXTENSIVE USE such as we see today is indicative of the lack of attachment parenting in society in general.

It makes me sad that so many parents are unaware of the options available to them. Many parents HATE their strollers but honestly aren't aware of their choices, or have been led to believe that the other choices (eg slings) are unsafe or inappropriate or just for hippies or whatever. This is not the parents' fault per se. But it still makes me sad.

I've been to Marineland as an example... where strollers are not allowed in certain areas. And there is a FOREST of strollers in the stroller parking zones. And the poor parents are befuddled and confused, how the heck am I supposed to actually CARRY my kid through here? They're just not accustomed to it. Then you see the families walking through the park -- not in anyone's way, in this case -- but walking along, pushing 2 empty strollers while their kids walk or are carried. I wonder if the thought even crosses their mind about how inconvenient it is for them. Again, I KNOW that it COULD be that this INDIVIDUAL has weighed their options and yes, accepted it as the most convenient option. But most of the time, I doubt that this is the case.

If we lived in a society where babywearing whenever possible was the norm, then the occasional stroller would be more understood, I think, that this was a case where the stroller was the better option, rather than just the default choice. Then the anti-stroller hate MIGHT be more understanding? I dunno. I just know that for me, it's the sheer NUMBER of strollers in use all the time... even in situations where babywearing would be way, way easier for most parents, the ratio is way off.

So once again, for me it's not about the existence of strollers in the first place... it's the fact that their prevalence is indicative of the societal rejection/ignorance/etc for babywearing and the blind following of what-everyone-else-does that plagues a large number of parents.

Side story, somewhat related. About the only negative comment I ever heard over babywearing was in a mall, DD was in a front carry in a mei tai. Some snippy teenager told his girlfriend as they passed by me, "you know, I remember when parents actually carried their babies." He totally missed the fact that most parents "carry" their babies in strollers, which is more removed from actual "carrying". I very much doubt he ever said anything snippy about them.

The implication of this comment, I think, is that babies in strollers is so normal that people don't even question it. It's hard for me to explain... but there's a blindness around them.

Of course they're useful and necessary in many situations, just like nearly all baby gear. It's the ubiquitousness of them that bugs me, the unquestioning, the default, the status quo. I don't know if I've stated this clearly or if I'm going to get attacked by someone for their own individual need for a stroller... *sigh*...
post #113 of 182
Quote:
Originally Posted by aniT View Post
And I have lived in Santa Rosa, Rohnert Park, Cobb, (near Clear Lake) and Manteca (an hour south of Sac.) And now near Portland. I didn't say San Fransisco I said the Bay Area.. I am not sure we have been to SF with a kid in a stroller... but I as I said before.. I have never ever run into this attitude ANYWHERE I have been. And I have never heard of SF as being "renowned for being one of the most child unfriendly cities in the country." Is this something that has happened in just that last 5 years??
Umm...ok. I think its more likely that you haven't noticed...which honestly is great. By Sonoma I meant Sonoma County; so Santa Rosa, Cotati and Petaluma specifically. Right now I live in Santa Clara, which is an interesting case because there is a culture clash between the tons of mommies and the youngish techies (who are always in such a *&^% hurry!). There are also sooooo many kids here! I am actually excited that I will be raising my son somewhere with a young population...but I digress.

Lets look again at the original posting shall we?:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Harmony08 View Post
Has anyone else experienced this?

Why do people glare at you like you don't deserve to live when you are trying to navigate a crowd with your stroller? It has always surprised me how unhelpful most people can be (not holding doors, not moving out of the way) but this just outright hostility, like how dare you think I should move aside an inch to let your stroller through. I guess it is just another symptom of our strange society like... "it is your problem if you decide to have children, I don't want to see them, hear them, smell them, or let them through in their strollers".
OP I know that you were looking for solidarity here, but that seems sort of naive and misguided when looking at the very hostile tone of your posting. Perhaps this is just an irony considering the direction this thread has taken. I think the moral of the story here is rudeness sucks, politeness gets you far and nobody should expect special treatment because of their stroller (but appreciate it when you get it!).

Quote:
Originally Posted by jeanine123 View Post
You haven't kept your dislike or irritation to yourself, you've posted it on a public message board for anyone and everyone to read including those who use strollers on a daily basis for a variety of reasons.
So you use a stroller on a daily basis...so what? Does that mean nobody is allowed to hold irritated thoughts in their head about it around you? Sheesh.
post #114 of 182
Quote:
Originally Posted by lach View Post
I was sort of thinking this too but didn't want to say anything. I live in a rather upscale area, where people tend to be kind of arrogant and entitled. And where everyone has giant double or triple strollers that probably cost more than my first car. So I would think that if anyone in the world were likely to be the stroller-ramming type, it would be the sorts of women around here. But I have to say that I have never, ever been rammed or pushed or even really aggressively grazed by someone else's stroller.
Or maybe they have the expensive double stroller because not only does it have the kind of features an urban parent needs to get around on a daily basis but because it also takes the place of having a second car. I used to live in one of those upscale neighborhoods too, even though we weren't very posh, I did have a fancy double stroller that was pretty spendy. BUT, it's still a far more economical and green alternative to owning, operating and parking a second vehicle in said upscale neighborhood (that's also closer to work so that spouse can either walk or take public transit to work, thus also decreasing our carbon footprint.)

Once again, I ask that we all as mothers and neighbors not automatically jump to negative conclusions about the mindset or motivations of one another. Life is much happier when I work from the assumption that pretty much every one else out there is trying just as hard as I am to get through the day with minimal upsets or disruptions for myself or others. Just because I or someone else may happen to live in a fancy zip code does not mean that I feel over-entitled or arrogant about my circumstances, and the same is true even though I may have happened to invest in an expensive double stroller for getting around with my twins.

Oh, and I don't think the OP was asking for special treatment because she happens to push a stroller around sometimes, I think she was wondering why some people act so openly hostile towards her when she is out and about with her kids. I mean really, is it that unreasonable to hope once in a while that someone will offer to hold a door open for you instead of shutting it in your face or hurling insults at you for daring to have children in the first place? (That's kind of a rhetorical question, but I've encountered enough unpleasant people since becoming a mother myself that some will still insist it is in fact unreasonable to even hold such hope...)
post #115 of 182
This thread is too weird! I live in a very child-centered, child friendly area and have never noticed any dirty looks. 95% of the time people will open the door for me w/o my asking. I love my stroller at the mall--it's great to carry packages, kind of like the crib is great to hold clean clothes. I've gotten way more looks from baby wearing, ie "Is he comfortable like that??" I'm very easily irritated and strollers don't bother me, maybe b/c I use one. The only feelings I've ever had is stroller envy.

I do feel sorry for the crying infant/kid strapped in the stroller while mom ignores him and shops. Of course there may be something I"m unaware of; I just hate to hear anyone cry.
post #116 of 182
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lolagirl View Post
I mean really, is it that unreasonable to hope once in a while that someone will offer to hold a door open for you
I think courtesy is nice when it happens but it cannot be expected unfortunately. And I'm ok with that.
post #117 of 182
Quote:
Originally Posted by newbymom05 View Post
The only feelings I've ever had is stroller envy.
me, too!

There are so many nice, cool strollers out there - I'm always checking them out and asking the pushers questions. I also get compliments on my P3 b/c the frame is white in a sea of mostly black/navy strollers.

Even though I don't have 2 stroller-age LO's, I always get envious when I see a phil and teds E3. and hey, bonus that they don't take up as much room as most doubles

anyway, going off topic since I know this may now turn into a babywearing vs strolling conversation. But I had to comment.

ETA: and don't worry, I have baby carrier envy, too. And almost always stop the wearer to comment on their beautiful mei tai, sling, or SSC. Doesn't matter if I own 11 of them myself, there are still plenty to drool over. And BTW, I do see lots of babywearers in my area - at DS's preschool alone I see several each day.
post #118 of 182
Quote:
Originally Posted by tankgirl73 View Post
But when we're out at a park or a store or wherever, and there are 100 parents with babies and toddlers, and 98 of them are in strollers and only 2 are in slings, then as a GENERAL view I can fairly safely deduce that MOST of them were NOT carefully decided in that manner... they were just stuck into strollers because babywearing (or other options) is just not on their radar. Kids BELONG in strollers, where you don't have to interact with them as much.
.
This sort of smacks of "if you were as well informed as me...you would do as I do". I think it's great people babywear - we sometimes wear the girls when my husband and I have the luxury of being able to go out for a walk together. I'm not sure why anyone cares how other people transport their babes. Strollers are great, babywearing is great. Two options, equally valid, in fact there are probably other options that haven't even occurred to me. Do what suits you.

This is all so reminiscent of that hilarious scene in "Away We Go"...if you've seen the movie you know the one.
post #119 of 182
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chamomile Girl View Post
Umm...ok. I think its more likely that you haven't noticed...which honestly is great. By Sonoma I meant Sonoma County; so Santa Rosa, Cotati and Petaluma specifically. Right now I live in Santa Clara, which is an interesting case because there is a culture clash between the tons of mommies and the youngish techies (who are always in such a *&^% hurry!). There are also sooooo many kids here! I am actually excited that I will be raising my son somewhere with a young population...but I digress.
Cotati, Rohnert Park.. whats the difference? I spent a lot of time in the Plaza with a stroller and never had a problem with anyone giving me rude looks. Farmers Market? No problem! And I always saw moms taking their babies for walks on the streets of RP. No one has been anything but friendly to me and my babes in Sonoma County.

And on the same token, I have never been run down by run away strollers and moms on cell phones. I have never had moms with strollers block isles in the store (and as a pp said.. if I did it wasn't important enough to remember as an excuse me probably remedied the situation.)

I go on my merry way..and ignore everyone else. I have had a few rude comments by elderly women in the store lately but those have been directed at my walking 3 year old. Everything is fine and dandy when he is in a stroller or a cart.

So in short.. I think if you go looking for animosity.. you are going to find it. No matter what side of the argument you are on. And trust me... I am good at animosity but this is one issue I just don't see what the big deal is about.
post #120 of 182
Yeah, I've never really noticed much of anything either way about strollers either. I've never seen anyone get intentionally bashed a stroller (people really do that?!), and nearly all the stroller users and non-stroller users I've ever encountered have been polite to each other.

Lots of times people hold doors open for me when I have the stroller (and when I don't, as I frequently do for others with and without strollers), but I don't expect it and don't think that it's difficult to open a door for myself while pushing a stroller. Just ... no stroller drama whatsoever for me so far, luckily.
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