Can parents face penalties for not vaccinating?

[Jen78fl]

Hi all. Well I just took my daughter to the ER last night. She has a bad cold and is choking on her mucous . Anyway, the nurse asked me if she was up to date on her immunizations and I told her that she hasnt had any. She said "you will have to watch where you take her" and then said "Im sure youve weighed the pros and cons of not vaccinating." I said yes definitely, which obviously I have. I believe vaccines contributed to my sons autism and theres no way Im taking that chance with her. Anyway the doctor also asked me about it too and I told her also that she didnt have her vaccinations. I really didnt think I should have to explain myself.

Anyway I talked with some other parents who dont vaccinate and they said that they will normally say that their kids are up to date on their vaccinations, to avoid possibly being reported for not vaccinating. So, what Im wondering, does this actually happen?? As far as I know, parents arent being sent to jail or punished for not vaccinating... Has anything changed? Would they come up with negligience charges or something?

I just wanted to see if any of you had any opinions on this. Maybe it is better off that I tell people she is vaccinated.. not sure..

Thanks everyone!

Jennifer

[MyLilPwny]

Originally Posted by Jen78fl

Maybe it is better off that I tell people she is vaccinated.. not sure..

I think it depends on where you live because some states are more strict than others. Here in California, its obviously ok to not vaccinate at all and I think its common among the people living here because on the blue card "immunization record" for this state there is already a pre-printed statement on there that says vaccines are against your personal beliefs, and all you have to do is sign that and that is as good as a completed record, and since they make it so easy with that pre-printed statement, I don't see any reason to lie about being vaccinated. That's just for me personally though. Maybe I'd handle it differently if I lived somewhere else.

[lotusdebi]

When my younger son had a febrile seizure at around 8 months old, I was honest about his vax status with the ER doc. That doctor decided that my son MUST be suffering from a vaccine- preventable disease, and started ordering ridiculous tests. I agreed to blood tests, but rejected a catheter (got a bag instead) and a spinal tap. The doc decided that I was medically neglecting my child by not vaccinating and not buying into his fear-mongering and attempts to assault my child, and called in the hospital social worker. The social worker didn't say a word to me and there was no follow-up so I guess she decided I wasn't neglecting my child. So I just had to deal with an unfriendly doctor and some suddenly cold nurses. The doctor finally backed off and determined that my son's fever was from an ear infection.

Had the hospital social worker been a different type of person, we certainly could have ended up with a lot more trouble. Had I been a weaker person, my son could have ended up being hurt by numerous, unnecessary tests. All because we don't vaccinate.

I'm not returning to that hospital, ever. I'm not going to be so quick to call 911 again. And I'm going to turn the question around on any ER doc who asks it next time: If I say that my child is vaccinated, will they still look at him as possibly having a VPD, or will they decide not to consider that because they believe vaccines are 100% effective? If I say that my child isn't vaccinated, will they still consider non-VPDs as the culprit? If they're going to keep an open mind to diagnose and treat my child, then what does it matter whether or not my child is vaccinated?

[nia82]

I hope your LO feels better soon.
It is perfectly legal to not vaccinate a child. There is no law. There are laws to have vaccines for school or daycare, and as long as you don't live in WV or MS, you can hand in a waiver, so not illegal at all.
What happens though: sometimes doctors or nurses try to report families who do not vaccinate to CPS. Usually nothing happens as CPS knows not vaccinating does not constitute neglect. It always depends on the kind of social worker and doctor involved, they might be on a hunt or not care at all. Sad.
I dreaded the question when I took DS in twice for constipation and was never asked whether he had shots. Prolly cause constipation isn't exactly a VPD though.

[Jen78fl]

Thanks everyone.. I didnt really think they could do much but I just wanted to check ...

[Drummer's Wife]

honestly, most of the times that we have been asked if they are "up to date" I just say yes. When DS went to urgent care to do breathing treatments recently the nurse just said, "I assume he's up to date" and checked the boxed before I could even mumble "yeah."

There has been a couple times where I said, "actually, we don't vaccinate for religious reasons" and it went over just fine - but other times I am just not even in the mood or for whatever reason don't think it matters - such as when we had wic.

[inchwormz]

Originally Posted by lotusdebi

And I'm going to turn the question around on any ER doc who asks it next time: If I say that my child is vaccinated, will they still look at him as possibly having a VPD, or will they decide not to consider that because they believe vaccines are 100% effective? If I say that my child isn't vaccinated, will they still consider non-VPDs as the culprit? If they're going to keep an open mind to diagnose and treat my child, then what does it matter whether or not my child is vaccinated?

LOVE LOVE this response. I'm going to print this out and keep it in my wallet should we ever end up in the ER. I've always been a tad worried about this having been through a similar ordeal.

[emma1325]

Originally Posted by Jen78fl

Thanks everyone.. I didnt really think they could do much but I just wanted to check ...

Hi Jen! I think I saw your post about this on FB...I commented on it.

My understanding of the issue is that MOST of the time, a lack of vaccinating in and of itself cannot prompt CPS action. CPS may be notified by ignorant health professionals, but usually nothing happens because it isn't illegal to not vaccinate.

However, in combination with other issues which can be construed as abuse or neglect, not vaccinating and/or not attending well child visits can be a black mark against you. It gives their file against you more weight.

So my thoughts are that it's best to maintain some sort of relationship with your child's doctor, so that you have an advocate for you in the event that some other issue comes up (for example, if your child falls and becomes injured, and a health professional suspects abuse and reports it.)

Hope that all made sense.

[miriam]

I have lived in CA all of my life and I told the ER each time I went in that my children were up to date, even though they were never vaccinated. Why open up a hornets' nest if you do not have to? If a doctor there wants to make things really unpleasant for the parents for whatever reason, the doctor can call CPS for any reason he/she deems fit. Then CPS sorts it all out. And you, the parent, now have a file on record with the local jurisdiction that a person required to report reported you for neglect and abuse of your child. You are innocent of course, but the government has a file on you!

No thanks.

[MCatLvrMom2A&X]

I am with you miriam I am not willing to risk CPS coming into my life over this. Since all my ER trips have been for reasons where I know what is wrong there is no point in disclosing that I dont vax. I mean really what difference would it make if my dd or ds was vaxed if I suspected a broken arm/leg.

Now if something was wrong with my child that I wasnt sure what it was then I would tell them I was religiously opposed to vax.

[StoriesInTheSoil]

I would be honest about vax status if I was going in to the ER with a child with symptoms of a VPD because some doctors will rule out VPDs if a child is fully vax'd (stupid to do anyway IMO as vaxes aren't 100%)

[onyxravnos]

Originally Posted by tinyactsofcharity

I would be honest about vax status if I was going in to the ER with a child with symptoms of a VPD because some doctors will rule out VPDs if a child is fully vax'd (stupid to do anyway IMO as vaxes aren't 100%)

:

[bbrandonsmom]

Like Emma said-in conjunction w/ another problem, they'll prob try to make trouble. They did for me and really backed us into a corner. The fact we did not vax, sent up an immediate red flag in thier eyes and they ordered all sorts of tests. Would they have ordered them if he was vaxed-no, or course not. When I do get the ? proposed to me-I tell them we don't vax for religous reasons. I've still had people pursue it and try to fear monger me, but I tell them it's not an option and then they usually shush.

[Turquesa]

Originally Posted by lotusdebi

The social worker didn't say a word to me and there was no follow-up so I guess she decided I wasn't neglecting my child. So I just had to deal with an unfriendly doctor and some suddenly cold nurses.

As a former medical social worker, I'm trying to decide how I would handle a physician who said, "Those people don't vaccinate. Go talk some sense into them, will you?" I think I'd go greet the patients facetiously with, "Hello. I don't know what I'm doing here, but I think I'm supposed to intimidate you into vaccinating. Any questions?"

Social workers clash with physicians all the time. Our profession is all about respecting individual self-determination. The pro-vax cause is not.