Help with my nephew being mean to my DS

[urchin_grey]

My nephew is SO mean to my 4yo. Bram is 27 months older, but he is smaller and cannot walk or speak so G has the upper hand, more or less. Also G is hardcore into the "MINE" stage (a stage Bram never went though). He'll sit there at the window and proclaim that every vehicle going by is "MY CAR". (And as I type this, we heard a horn honking down the street and he said "dat's my truck".) So of course, he wants every single thing that Bram puts his hands on. Sometimes he'll just run by and snatch the toy away and throw it across the room, which is incredibly frustrating for Bram since he isn't as strong and can't hold on the toy and can't chase after him. Usually though, he'll find another toy (or even his dirty underwear, anything he can find, really) and try to trick Bram into giving up his toy. He'll sit there and dangle in front of his face and then bait and switch him. Lately I've been taking the toy back from G and letting Bram have both things, as G did give it to him, after all. So now Bram is currently playing with a toy hammer AND a bottle of face wash. I wonder if I'm doing the right thing though. I'm all for natural consequences, and that seems in line with that...

Then there is the hitting. There's not a damn thing I can do about that one though, until my sister stops spanking... I'm trying as hard as I can to teach him that is is wrong though and I *think* its working. Last week I was in my room and I heard her swat his butt and he screamed "NO NO NO NO NO HITTING ME" and then he hit her back. I know she is trying really hard to find other ways of disciplining him and I just hope a 2yo yelling that at her made something click. Its too late for my 4yo though, since G has already taught him to hit. And I have NO idea what to do about that one since he doesn't understand the way G does. He doesn't hit hard or anything (he just swats at me) but it is incredibly annoying, to stay the least. I'm not sure he even "gets" it though since usually he'll swat at me and then immediately try to kiss me.

There was also an incident tonight at dinner. G called Bram "stupid" twice and then he called him a bitch. :mad: I KNOW he did not get "bitch" from anyone here, I'm almost certain he got that at his dad's house. He's also picked up "look at my wienie" and yelling "cut it out" after coming home from visits. Anyway, after the second warning I made him get up from the table and didn't let him finish his dinner until Bram was finished. I'm not trying to withold food as a punishment, but I'm not going to let anyone sit at the dinner table and talk to anyone that way so I made him eat alone after Bram was done.

He's also very bossy too... He doesn't just ask for water he yells "get my water" or whatever it is he wants. I ignore these types of requests and tell him to ask nicely and sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. I'll be damned if a 2yo bosses me around though. Its not just the bossiness though, its the overall way he speaks to people. Its so annoying. I'm pretty sure he's picked that up from his dad too.

Anyway, I'm just looking for more ideas and and advice... G is my sister's first child and the first "typical" kid I've ever dealt with. Bram has always been very mellow and gentle and I just never had any of these issues with him. My first instinct is to yell at G and stick him in a corner (mama bear issues, and all) but I don't want to do that. I know that will just make is worse and I definitely don't want to do that!

Help.

[Tjej]

I have questions myself on how to deal with bossy-ness towards another child in another person's child, so I can't address that part of it very well for you.

For the words he is using or the way he is talking - what I do is I give them the right way to say it - if they say something in a mean way, I supply a kind way to say it and expect them to try again. And if they are using "bad" words - well, I just say those words are unkind words and I do not want to hear them. If they keep saying them - well, I am not sure. Usually if I am serious about something like that a child will respect that. I suppose if they didn't I would tell them that if they need to say those words, they can do it in the bathroom (or something like that). Really for things like "bitch" and "wienie" - I don't think you should be getting mad at the child. They don't understand the strength of the meaning behind the word, or they are just talking about something. Supply words that you prefer.

For the grabbing - I think that emphasizing "we ASK for toys" or "we take turns" and then helping them do it, generally works. It takes a lot of repetition, but they do get it, and it does get better. Make sure you don't accidentally grab the item back from the offender, though. The rule "no grabbing" applies to you too!

It's hard. Being RIGHT THERE and anticipating problems helps a lot. A positive direction BEFORE a problem is a lot easier than a correction after.

Tjej

[Dov'sMom]

I don't have much to say except to point out that your nephew is TWO. A toddler. A toddler going through the terrible twos.

I don't know much about your son or his situation, but this post strikes me as way too mama bearish about your son and not nearly as concerned about this other baby. I have never met a two year old who wasn't self centered, wouldn't try to bribe a younger kid with junk to get his toys (when he wasn't just grabbing them away)(I know your son is technically older, but he's functionally a littler kid) and generally didnt' think the world revolved aroudn him. I'd agree that you need to protect your son, but I'd think that means being right there with him all the time and not by demonizing your nephew, who sounds like a perfectly typical two-year-old in particular need of warm loving discipline. (I'd guess you'd have a much better chance of convincing your sister to drop the spanking if you can show her that something else works.)

[lifeguard]

Originally Posted by Dov'sMom

I don't have much to say except to point out that your nephew is TWO. A toddler. A toddler going through the terrible twos.

I don't know much about your son or his situation, but this post strikes me as way too mama bearish about your son and not nearly as concerned about this other baby. I have never met a two year old who wasn't self centered, wouldn't try to bribe a younger kid with junk to get his toys (when he wasn't just grabbing them away)(I know your son is technically older, but he's functionally a littler kid) and generally didnt' think the world revolved aroudn him. I'd agree that you need to protect your son, but I'd think that means being right there with him all the time and not by demonizing your nephew, who sounds like a perfectly typical two-year-old in particular need of warm loving discipline. (I'd guess you'd have a much better chance of convincing your sister to drop the spanking if you can show her that something else works.)

I agree with this!

[urchin_grey]

Well I guess I should have mentioned that he has given Bram stitches once, ripped out so much of his hair that he had bald spots, and hit him over the head with wooden toys to the point that his scalp was bleeding, has bitten him so hard that he had huge blue bruises the size of golf balls, and even tried to bite his penis once. Is that really normal two year old behavior?? And yes, every time, an adult was RIGHT there. So yeah, I'm mama bearish about the whole thing, especially because THEY came to live with US and before that, Bram never had to worry about being hurt. He could roam the house as he wanted and now it seems like I have to lock him away in our room just to get anything done because if he goes anywhere else in the house (where G is), he could be seriously injured.

I am TRYING though, I WANT to find something that works with him so that I CAN show my sister a better way to discipline. Her only two parenting tools right now it seems are nursing when he's upset or spanking when he's misbehaving (what a combo, right?). I am honestly at a loss too though because Bram has never been this way. He never went though the "terrible twos". (He is not cognitively delayed, just physically and socially.) Our mom, who raised 5 kids, even says that G's behavior is not "normal". What's normal doesn't really matter though, it just matters that I don't want Bram to be afraid in his own home. Any time G walks past Bram, he flinches. It is very sad to watch... Nothing I do seems to work though. I can redirect the same behavior for months and it makes no difference. I just need to find the thing that "clicks" for him because none of the other adults in the house seem to think there is a problem with the way they are disciplining him. Even when I do find something that works, my sister will undermine me. I mean, he IS her kid, but I'm specifically referring to when he's messing with things that belong to me, so I feel I have the right to step in if she won't. Like for instance, he kept going into the freezer, repeatedly and I redirected him from it multiple times and then after the 3-4 time I finally put him in the living room on the other side of the baby gate. I left the room for like 30 seconds and when I walked back into the kitchen, my sister had let him back into the kitchen and he was in the freezer AGAIN. My sister was literally standing 2-3 feet away. It turned out that he was trying to get a popsicle and he was WAILING about it so she finally gave in and gave him the popsicle. So of course, when he was done with that one and wanted another one she had to listen to him scream for 20+ minutes. The tantrum worked the first time, so why should he think any differently the second time?

I just feel like there is some serious lack of logic going on here.

[RiverSky]

Why is your sister and her son living with you?

I do think that perhaps a family meeting is in order. Since your son is not safe with the 2 year old around, I think his mother either has to handle the behavior (be at his side every second and stop every bit of hurt) or she has to move out. It isn't fair to your son to be physically abused. And no, none of that sounds normal to me at all. If there was say, 1 incident out of those listed, I'd say it was fairly normal, but all of them together? Way out of line. The toddler must be having a very rough time with the separation of his family and yeah, I wonder about the father, but seriously, the way your sister treats him is not great thing, either. I really have no advice on that besides, perhaps, parenting classes?? Are there any free parenting classes in your area? And well, getting them to move out and putting the child in daycare or something, where someone with some knowledge of how to parent a child might be able to help him.

[MamaDona]

No way is that normal two-year-old behavior! I second RiverSky's idea to push for a meeting to discuss a more permanent fix to this problem. Can your sister move out? I agree that she needs help with building up an arsenal of parenting tools, but not at the expense of your child's safety.

[urchin_grey]

Originally Posted by RiverSky

Why is your sister and her son living with you?

I do think that perhaps a family meeting is in order. Since your son is not safe with the 2 year old around, I think his mother either has to handle the behavior (be at his side every second and stop every bit of hurt) or she has to move out. It isn't fair to your son to be physically abused. And no, none of that sounds normal to me at all. If there was say, 1 incident out of those listed, I'd say it was fairly normal, but all of them together? Way out of line. The toddler must be having a very rough time with the separation of his family and yeah, I wonder about the father, but seriously, the way your sister treats him is not great thing, either. I really have no advice on that besides, perhaps, parenting classes?? Are there any free parenting classes in your area? And well, getting them to move out and putting the child in daycare or something, where someone with some knowledge of how to parent a child might be able to help him.

They're living with us because they have nowhere else to go. She dropped out of highschool for that piece of garbage who's barely more than a sperm donor so the best job she can get is waiting tables. That's what we do too, but we have two incomes, not just one (plus I get doula clients, when I can find them). There is no way she could live on her own though, not with her income. She lived with our parents for a while, but she can't live there long term as my parents still have 2 kids at home themselves (13 and 16) and frankly, our parents don't want them to. They love them, but they are done raising babies and like having some piece and quiet after raising 5 kids.

I've tried to talk to her about discipline but she gets defensive and starts going on about how she has to do it all on her own and I don't know what its like. She's right though, my son has an awesome dad and her son's dad didn't even change a diaper until they were separated (because he had no choice during visits). He even asked my sister on more than one occasion to COME WITH HIM for his visits so that he didn't have to do any of the baby care. I told her to tell him that he should have learned how to do all that stuff the first 18 months instead of expecting my sister to do everything.

I know she is trying though, and she went out and bought some stickers for a sticker chart (as suggested by her boyfriend) but I'm not sure if that kind of thing is going to work either. I know why she acts the way she does though, because its exactly the way our mom treated us. Well, not as bad, but the yelling definitely comes from her. I struggle with it myself. I had to give myself a time out earlier so that I wouldn't yell at G. He is definitely picking it up himself already though so we need to break that cycle, NOW. Earlier, he walked up and raised his hand to Bram and I (gently but firmly) grabbed G's arm to keep him from hitting Bram and he cut his eyes at me, snatched his arm away and yelled "you get off of my arm!". I would have laughed if he wasn't about to hit Bram. At least he knows HIS personal space, now we just gotta work on others'!

[urchin_grey]

Oh! I also forgot... Rob (Bram's dad) may be joining the Air Force next year and my sister is even thinking about joining the National Guard. (Our middle sister is in the army and has all but talked her into it.) So it doesn't look like we will be living together here TOO much longer, but I will be G's guardian while my sister is as basic. (I am the only one than can/will take him. His own dad wouldn't even take him that long.) I think this will help her though so that A. she doesn't have to rely on us for a place to live and transportation and B. she'll have to put him in some sort of preschool once she's stationed. Its very unlikely that we'll be stationed together, at least not any time soon, so we'll only have G when she'd be gone for longer periods of time. I think she's going to try to wait until he's closer to 3 though, because she will have to wean first, or at the very least, he'd have to go cold turkey for 8 weeks while she was at basic.

[lonegirl]

Just so you know....as a person who was spanked growing up...you can still be taught that it is wrong to hit others. I was spanked and was never a hitter nor was my brother...we were taught it was wrong....spanking and hitting someone were of two different worlds.
Do not let them play alone if you are worried he is going to injure your son again.

[phathui5]

Well I guess I should have mentioned that he has given Bram stitches once, ripped out so much of his hair that he had bald spots, and hit him over the head with wooden toys to the point that his scalp was bleeding, has bitten him so hard that he had huge blue bruises the size of golf balls, and even tried to bite his penis once. Is that really normal two year old behavior??

Wow. I don't think I would let him within reach of my kid if this is what was happening.

[urchin_grey]

Originally Posted by phathui5

Wow. I don't think I would let him within reach of my kid if this is what was happening.

FWIW, the worst of it, he has not done in quite some time. It was the worst when they first moved in like 10 months ago so this is just what he's done in the past (and he would do all of these things for no reason whatsoever). Now its really just smacking, pushing (only when he's upset), snatching, and the dirty mouth. No bruises or blood as of late. But you can see why I would be apprehensive.... because I know what he's capable of doing. I think I curbed most of it though by removing Bram from the situation any time he tried and eventually he figured out that he'd "lose" Bram if he did anything. Bram would get to go do "big kid" stuff and that was a big deal because he REALLY does love the heck out of Bram. He just needs to learn the social skills and I have no good ideas about how to do that. I do think we need to get some more things that they can play with together. I think that might solve part of the problem. Its just kind of hard though because some of the things Bram likes to do are too advanced for G and some of the things G likes to do are too physically advanced for Bram.

Anyway, I don't want anyone to be worried that this was still happening to Bram all this time. Its mostly just the teasing that's the issue now.

After I got after work today though, he sat at the baby gate and was yelling bitch at me. And then after his Uncle Bob talked to him about it, he sat at the baby gate yelling "bad word". LOL

That kid is a mess.

[heartmama]

I don't think you are too overprotective at all! While the 2 year old is just acting two, it is completely unfair and inappropriate for a 4 year old who cannot speak or walk to endure that on a daily basis. He should not have to put up with this--I just can't stress that enough. And again, very normal on the part of the 2 year old--but that means the adults need to find another solution, because these children are not compatible playmates. Either hire a mothers helper to supervise in the home all day, or find a preschool for the 2 year old.

[ssh]

I also think preschool for the two year old would be great. It sounds like he wants social interaction and preschool could give that to him. If he were gone most of the day he'd appreciate time with your DS more. Good preschool teachers are experts at helping LOs learn how to interact appropriately. Sure they can pick up other children's bad habits, but it sounds like DN already has them. My DD was an older 3 year old when she started and loves preschool.

[urchin_grey]

Yes, I suggested part-time preschool for DN after we move and my sister is on board with it. When/if Robert decides to join the military, my sister will only have a few options. Either she can join the military as well (reserves) and stay here while we get stationed elsewhere, come with us and join the reserves wherever we get stationed, or come with us and get a civilian job. Even if she stays with us, I suggested that she put DN in part-time pre-school. I also think he would benefit from it.

Its just NOT a possibility until after we move though, I'm afraid. For one, my sister has no extra money, especially not a large chunk for tuition (she's getting no child support whatsoever) and there is no public school for under-3's here. Plus, we all work at night, so that would be a LOT of time for a nursing toddler to be away from his mama.

Its too bad they don't make night care.